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 Topic: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)

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  • Previous page 1 ... 5 6 78 9 ... 19 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #180 - March 13, 2011, 05:36 PM
    Its your PREFERENCE stop attempting to justify in rational terms
    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #181 - March 13, 2011, 05:41 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 05:14 PM
    Now, what are these gaping holes in my train of thought?


    Which train of thought? There are several.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #182 - March 13, 2011, 05:43 PM
    Quote from: z10 on March 13, 2011, 06:35 AM
    Torturing animals is wrong but there is nothing wrong with eating a dead animal.

    There would be nothing morally objectionable about eating a dead man too. We owe moral consideration to conscious beings. Not to the dead. If the technology existed to create mass produced synthetic meat in the laboratory the ethical objections to eating it would dissipate. What vegetarians object to is not the consumption of inanimate matter, but the infliction of needless suffering.

    While the men in the white suit are working away on that, wanna join me in raiding the cemetary?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #183 - March 13, 2011, 05:46 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 13, 2011, 05:41 PM
    Which train of thought? There are several.

    Why do you say that my ethical model is selective and arbitrary? You had better stop insulting me. I know where you live. and where you stash your dildos.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #184 - March 13, 2011, 06:01 PM
    Quote from: Lucem Ferre on March 13, 2011, 05:35 PM
    Maybe your just sentimental

    Tell 'em brother! I hate these emos. Always nagging about suffering and pain and moral issues. Gimme a break. The truth is that God gave man the biggest d!ck in the world so he can urinate on the rest and make himself big and strong!

    Quote from: Lucem Ferre on March 13, 2011, 05:35 PM
    A pregnant women stitched your cloths in a factory working 24hour shifts with little pay.
    The car you drive is destroying our atmosphere every day.
    The country that you live so comfortably in was built on blood and rape and pillaging and slavery.

    I like the way your mind works. We all know that in order to speak out against one evil we must first have conquered all other evils. In fact, since we can't conquer any evil without exposing ourselves to the charge of not addressing others men should never lift a finger against anything. Hypocrites!

    Quote from: Lucem Ferre on March 13, 2011, 05:35 PM
    In order to FEEL PAIN you must have the concept of pain.The concept of pain comes about from consistent rules governing it . These rules stem from our LANGUAGE game

    I wish I possessed your vast powers of scientific knowledge. In my country we have this silly idea that the capacity for pain is contingent on having a nervous system. But I like your idea better: Pain is determined by language. So deaf people cannot experience any suffering. Excellent.

    Quote from: Lucem Ferre on March 13, 2011, 05:35 PM
    An animal only has rudimentary signals and even that is just monkeys etc. An animal does not no pain so therefore cannot experience it. Killing it would just be another event. I cant STAND people Anthropomorphising animals . FUCKING pisses me of  

    Big word. Knocked me right back. Anthro-what? Impressive. I know what you mean. Animals may have a complex central nervous system, they may yelp and recoil from sharp objects, they may stagger and collapse when struck by a painful object. But that is just soooooo lame an argument. I'm with you. To hell with science. It's a godless plot to lead men stray from the siratul mustaqeem.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #185 - March 13, 2011, 06:06 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 05:26 PM
    Look at this nine-pizzas-knave.


    Okay, I have no clue what that means, but it's admittedly awesome.

    Quote
    The vast bulk of vegetarians by far and away live in India.


    Yeah, but you don't, nor do your bourgeois veggie fellow travelers on this thread.
    fuck you
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #186 - March 13, 2011, 06:08 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 05:46 PM
    Why do you say that my ethical model is selective and arbitrary?


    In a word, why do you support the death penalty?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #187 - March 13, 2011, 06:26 PM
    ^ because it's just.

    Edit: dammit it's still 3.5 words
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #188 - March 13, 2011, 06:32 PM
    Justice?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #189 - March 13, 2011, 06:34 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 13, 2011, 06:08 PM
    In a word, why do you support the death penalty?

    What is the logical inconsistency between agitating against the exploitation of other species and hanging convicted killers?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #190 - March 13, 2011, 06:36 PM
    Vegetables are still living things that breathe and take in nutrients and water. We eat animals and under the class of living things with flesh, blood and bones humans are as well. We cant eat humans and other higher mammals that are close to us. Yet how can we justify eating plants? Indeed its quite a paradox. Where do we draw the line and how do we do it? More importantly how we reason this subject?

    I try to have more veggies and fruits when I eat. But I enjoy the taste of meat as well. Every now and then I have carnivorous cravings of fats and steak. I want to bite into my food and have the flavours burst out. I want juice to wash over my tastebuds, let it smear all over my tongue inducing me to salivate, and let it mix with the saliva so I can taste it well. A taste of something salty and stocky. I want the essence of something that used to crawl and was on higher end of the food pyramid. So I don't want to be a hypocrite.

    At the same time I just don't like having meat the main part of my meal 24/7. Not only that I find it healthier to munch on the greens. I feel lighter and more radiant. My skin looks nicer. When I chomp on raw veggies and fruits mainly for a long time and I look at the mirror. I look good and I feel good.

    My mind feels fresher. I feel more relaxed. My blood pumps more smoothly and my erections get more stiffer.

    So to end my uninformative and personal post, I would conclude that a balanced diet is probably the smart way to go.
    Fake friends flatter you. Their compliments are made up. Nasty enemies criticize you harshly. They pick on you unnecessarily. Neither of them help you improve yourself. The best critic is honest and knows you exactly and the best person you can choose to follow is someone closest to you.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #191 - March 13, 2011, 06:38 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 13, 2011, 06:32 PM
    Justice?


    Yes, yes, that's the word I was looking for. Thanks.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #192 - March 13, 2011, 06:40 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 06:34 PM
    What is the logical inconsistency between agitating against the exploitation of other species and hanging convicted killers?

    Yes, that's the question the discussion will probably be framed in. And you're about to tell me your justification for both, aren't you, so we have something to compare.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #193 - March 13, 2011, 06:46 PM
    @Ishina

    I don't follow. You said that my ethical code was selective and arbitrary. I gather my inconsistency is not in the arguments advanced in this thread but in how my vegetarianism relates to my other beleifs. Tell me the inconsistency that you see.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #194 - March 13, 2011, 06:46 PM
    Quote from: Q-Man on March 13, 2011, 06:06 PM
    Okay, I have no clue what that means, but it's admittedly awesome.

    Yeah, but you don't, nor do your bourgeois veggie fellow travelers on this thread.

    Bourgeois? Fascinating. Is that Marxist-speak for civilisation? You made the allegation, defeated by the merest flicker of common sense, that people who don't eat flesh are affluent metropolitans. You now accept that you were talking nonsense do you?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #195 - March 13, 2011, 06:47 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 13, 2011, 02:23 PM
    I need a little more substance if you want me to take you seriously.

    I didn't know if I actually signed up to fulfill your needs.. Tongue Neither did I claim that I want you to take me seriously.
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #196 - March 13, 2011, 06:47 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 06:46 PM
    @Ishina

    I don't follow. You said that my ethical code was selective and arbitrary. I gather my inconsistency is not in the arguments advanced in this thread but in how my vegetarianism relates to my other beleifs. Tell me the inconsistency that you see.


    Yes, your support for death penalty is totally out of line..
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #197 - March 13, 2011, 06:48 PM
    ^ Yeah, you missed the point Muddy. Again.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #198 - March 13, 2011, 06:50 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 06:01 PM
    Animals may have a complex central nervous system, they may yelp and recoil from sharp objects, they may stagger and collapse when struck by a painful object.

    Complex CNS is not a prerequisite for feeling "pain". Pain is a defence mechanism that evolved so that organisms can efficiently react to adverse stimuli and this is not something that is unique to animals let alone organisms with a CNS.

    ... it did set me wondering whether the presence of a nervous system is a prerequisite for feeling pain, and whether any communication system that causes an organism to respond to an adverse stimulus could be considered "pain"  - ( not necessarily just electrical, but chemical - either internally, or externally - by the release of volatile chemicals that other plants recognise ) that causes an organism to respond to an adverse stimulus could be considered "pain".

    http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/plantbio/1994-December/004565.html

    MAB, it seems to me that morals play a huge and probably a decisive role in a choice of becoming a vegetarian - at least when it comes to those living in high income countries. Have you considered the fact that agriculture (especially intensive farming needed to feed the growing population)  plays a huge role in destroying naturally occurring ecosystems that used to be home to countless species. What about the countless animals that are killed during the crop production and harvest?

    Study has shown that simply mowing an alfalfa field caused a 50% reduction in the gray-tailed vole population:
    "Vegan diets are not bloodless diets," Davis said. "Millions of animals die every year to provide products used in vegan diets."

    http://web.archive.org/web/20041107084521/http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html

    Thoughts?

  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #199 - March 13, 2011, 06:51 PM
    Interesting thread.
    Fake friends flatter you. Their compliments are made up. Nasty enemies criticize you harshly. They pick on you unnecessarily. Neither of them help you improve yourself. The best critic is honest and knows you exactly and the best person you can choose to follow is someone closest to you.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #200 - March 13, 2011, 06:54 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 06:46 PM
    @Ishina

    I don't follow. You said that my ethical code was selective and arbitrary. I gather my inconsistency is not in the arguments advanced in this thread but in how my vegetarianism relates to my other beleifs. Tell me the inconsistency that you see.



    Well, everyone’s is selective. But for example, I don't understand how you can square your justification for not killing animals - physical suffering - with your justification for killing humans - revenge.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #201 - March 13, 2011, 06:54 PM
    @Muddy

    I will take you seriously no matter what, bro. I support your choice not to kill murderers and avoid good proteins, why don't you support my and bisons views. It hurts.
    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #202 - March 13, 2011, 07:01 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 13, 2011, 06:54 PM
    Well, everyone’s is selective. But for example, I don't understand how you can square your justification for not killing animals - physical suffering - with your justification for killing humans - revenge.

    The distinction is that one is a convicted killer and the other is innocent of guilt.

    Your problem it seems is with the concept of vengeance. Are you saying that the criminal justice system should not excercise retribution? Because retribution is just another word for revenge.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #203 - March 13, 2011, 07:03 PM
    But what does innocence or guilt have to do with a moral choice based on physical suffering?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #204 - March 13, 2011, 07:11 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 13, 2011, 07:03 PM
    But what does innocence or guilt have to do with a moral choice based on physical suffering?

    Is it your position that we should never visit harm on a person quite regardless of their moral character?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #205 - March 13, 2011, 07:15 PM
    No. I am an eye for an eye kind of girl.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #206 - March 13, 2011, 07:28 PM
    And I am d!ck and a pusssy kind of guy.

    But I think you misconstrue my position. The central objection I have is not to killing man or beast. But needless suffering. I have no moral qualms with pest control for instance. Going further, if a buzzing fly disturbed me in the solitude of my study I should waste no time in squatting it. But no reason except selfish greed justifies putting the interest of one's palate ahead of the right of a cow to live.  Vegetarianism is affording moral consideration to other species instead of regarding them as personal property.

    But I'm left with the impression that you think capital punishment is the only form vengeance takes. I would suggest that depriving a man of his liberty is an expression of the same primal impulse to exact retribution. Do you contest this?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #207 - March 13, 2011, 07:42 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 07:28 PM
    But I think you misconstrue my position. The central objection I have is not to killing man or beast. But needless suffering.

    Do you think the death sentence is necessary suffering?

    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 07:28 PM
    But no reason except selfish greed justifies putting the interest of one's palate ahead of the right of a cow to live.

    What other reasons except selfish reasons puts the interest of your revenge ahead of the right of a criminal to live?

    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 07:28 PM
    Vegetarianism is affording moral consideration to other species instead of regarding them as personal property.

    Moral consideration to other species is not exclusive to vegetarians. Nor is it a value certain to be found in all vegetarians.

    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 13, 2011, 07:28 PM
    But I'm left with the impression that you think capital punishment is the only form vengeance takes.

    What makes you think that?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #208 - March 13, 2011, 07:51 PM
    Quote from: muddy on March 13, 2011, 12:04 PM
    The way they are handled or not, it is outright cruel to slaughter animals for their meat. May be eating dead animal's meat who died its natural death might not be that cruel.
    Also, it is totally our fault to increase demand. In western countries, rather then increasing the price, they industrialized the process to keep the cost low.If we stop demanding, they won't kill more animals.

     That is true. The occasional meat is good but you can actually get sick from eating too much meat. Did you know that if herbivores are left on their own, there would be very few plants? There has to be a cycle and we're part of that cycle. Maybe we slaughter them, but we bred them and fed them for that. That's their purpose. To nourish us.
    I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #209 - March 13, 2011, 07:52 PM
    What university do you teach at MAB and what courses?
    fuck you
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