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 Topic: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)

 (Read 84822 times)
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  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #300 - March 14, 2011, 01:25 PM

    You guys made your points

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
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  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #301 - March 14, 2011, 08:08 PM

    I've been hanging out on a gaming forum and might have gotten into the habit of using memes from there Tongue

    Out of curiosity - which one?


    @muddy
    sorry!
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #302 - March 14, 2011, 09:59 PM

    q
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #303 - March 14, 2011, 10:05 PM

    Quote
    Animals possess the same pain receptors as humans. If having your throat cut is pain free, would you care to surrender your throat to my knife? You won’t feel a thing my sweet. I just wanna test what you look like without a head.

    I loll'd out of nowhere with that one

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  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #304 - March 14, 2011, 10:25 PM

    ^ Is this Bard?





  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #305 - March 14, 2011, 10:46 PM

    mab, gender issues and racism issues have nothing to do with FOOD.. domestic animals are FOOD and have been food for a very very long time.... We are circling around and this has not much point because you see frogs as our equals but i don't... i see them as french food....

    bye

    ps. as for cutting the head, the guillotine does a perfect job and is one of the most merciful death methods for humans (you must know, you support the death penalty), therefor for animals too Smiley

    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #306 - March 14, 2011, 11:00 PM

    ps. as for cutting the head, the guillotine does a perfect job and is one of the most merciful death methods for humans (you must know, you support the death penalty), therefor for animals too Smiley

    hey, its even halal too.  SubHannah Montanah  dance

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  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #307 - March 14, 2011, 11:15 PM

    w
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #308 - March 14, 2011, 11:47 PM

    I am a meat eater myself, but I respect the ideals of vegetarians.  Killing other sentient beings when we dont need too is not something to show to be proud off.  Never really quite got outspoken meat eaters opinions on this issue.

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  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #309 - March 15, 2011, 12:25 AM

    I am a meat eater myself, but I respect the ideals of vegetarians.  Killing other sentient beings when we dont need too is not something to show to be proud off.  Never really quite got outspoken meat eaters opinions on this issue.

    Well I am not a vegetarian etal and I eat everything but I do prefer vegge food., Islame and others who respect the ideals of vegetarians, "would you guys consider it as a core value of Humanity that differentiates us from animals" ??

    In the animal world, I wonder about the species that are  strictly vegetarian.. any species that you guys came across??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #310 - March 15, 2011, 12:36 AM

    Well I am not a vegetarian etal and I eat everything but I do prefer vegge food., Islame and others who respect the ideals of vegetarians, "would you guys consider it as a core value of Humanity that differentiates us from animals" ??

    no
    Quote
    In the animal world, I wonder about the species that are  strictly vegetarian.. any species that you guys came across??

    many animals eg rabbits, tortoises as well as many insects & plants

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  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #311 - March 15, 2011, 01:09 AM

    no

    I am glad to know that, but would you consider meat eaters as Morally less evolved than those who are strictly vegetarians ?? It is a very tricky problem

    Quote
    many animals eg & plants

    Well leave the plants alone, it is a different type of evolution after it broke off from the common ancestor., But I am not very certain about that, your examples     "rabbits, tortoises as well as many insects"   are STRICTLY VEGETARIAN.  The reasons that some of them may look like   vegetarian is  that they have not trained or tasted to eat the Non vegetarian.  Now cannibalism.. or eating its own species is different game in biology which appears to be different from Meat eating species.  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #312 - March 15, 2011, 02:29 AM

    ^ Lots of herbivores one can find: Elephants, cows, sheep, goats, deer, horses, panda bears, hippos, oxen, gorillas ....

  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #313 - March 15, 2011, 02:38 AM

    ^ Lots of herbivores one can find: Elephants, cows, sheep, goats, deer, horses, panda bears, hippos, oxen, gorillas ....



    well.. herbivorous .. herbivorous animals.,  I say that in an evolutionary path ways, these animals  didn't need to eat meat for survival  hence didn't develop taste buds for meat . So they evolved that way That doesn't mean they are strict natural vegetarians. In other words it is NOT a natural process but they ADAPTED IT ., for e.g.,   watch this video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9vxHN8_jSE

    Not that damn cow  need to eat chicken for survival ., but it developed  its taste to eat live chickens..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #314 - March 15, 2011, 02:41 AM

    d
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #315 - March 15, 2011, 02:49 AM

    well.. herbivorous .. herbivorous animals.,  I say that in an evolutionary path ways, these animals  didn't need to eat meat for survival  hence didn't develop taste buds for meat . So they evolved that way That doesn't mean they are strict natural vegetarians. In other words it is NOT a natural process but they ADAPTED IT ., for e.g.,   watch this video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9vxHN8_jSE

    Not that damn cow  need to eat chicken for survival ., but it developed  its taste to eat live chickens..


    I would add even more, yeezevee, those herbivores did not make a conscious choice not to eat the meat, no feelings of other species did they consider. They are no better than us: evolution is responsible for both.

    "That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #316 - March 15, 2011, 02:54 AM

    q
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #317 - March 15, 2011, 03:07 AM

    Quote
    Steady, you are butchering the English language and eating it for lunch

    You are right bison, but as long as you understand the gist of the allah verse, that is good enough.
      They do not have the sharp teeth or digestive system required for meat consumption. To feed them meat would be unnatural.

     Plenty of birds,  animals eat meat without having sharp teeth.  Natural and unnatural is  very relative.  With in couple of generations a natural habit of an animal can be  modified either by evolution or by training and it may look like unnatural for a biased observer.
    Quote
    Nor are we built for eating raw flesh. What you call meat is a highly manipulated form of what genuine carnivores eat in the wild, manipulated by cooking. When was the last time you saw a tiger waiting by the stove for his dinner? Fuhggedaboutit.

    this cooking business is a very recent phenomenon , at  best 100, 000 year old., before that our dead ancestors did eat raw meat.   And watch the Siberian tiger &  watch the people in a restaurant Bison

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMm43YNhg8g

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzZdFTkaUz4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M90BO-KFyQk

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #318 - March 15, 2011, 03:20 AM

    Quote
    Look at this donkey. By which animal were you anally raped as a child Bard? The only reason you eat beings of a different species is because they do not look like you.  The same reason offered to justify enslaving black people. Biological difference. What other reason is there? If you accept that biological difference means that one can treat other beings as personal property, you have no grounds on which to object to racism and sexism. They are all justified on the same premise.

    Other species do not exist as our food.  If I dismembered your puny body and stuck it in the oven you would be my dinner too. And I do not maintain that frogs are equals. I think they have a right not to be unduly harmed. Which is not the same thing.


    I eat animals because they taste good and because I CAN... I belong to a species that is omnivorous, which makes us quite unique and i am proud of it..

    Eventhough talking about sexism and racism which are NOT NATURAL STATES OF THE HUMAN BUT SOCIAL CONSTRUCTIONS versus EATING MEAT WHICH IS A EVOLUTIONARY GIFT/ADVANTAGE THAT MADE US TO THOSE WHO WE ARE TODAY is nonsense , I shall reply a little bit to your not so well informed ideas..  Black slaves were enslaved by their black fellows and sold to black markets even be4 the europeans (or arabs) came over there... So how do you explain that? or how do you explain turkish slaves who mostly were white europeans?. Or roman and greek slaves who were from the same ethnicity/city or neighboring tribes...... Slavery and racism are not the same thing... Slavery was fueled by the economic component not because of any racial ideas... So slavery in it self can exist without racism.. and both concepts are human constructions... social constructions developed with time through humans. Eating meat was not a process or a construction that was thought of from humans.. We developed a taste for meat when we were at a stage more similar to chimps than modern humans, using very basic tools (the famous "handaxe" a technology that stayed the same for 2 million years)... So no MAB eating meat is not social construct or some kind of a human made norm.. it is an instinct that comes to us from the time that our chimp forefathers started developing a taste for the juices inside the bones of dead animals...

    I doubt you can dismember my body dear mab, since statistically , knowing that you are Türkish, even if you are average Türk, you would be one head smaller than me  + i am younger and have more advantage to kick your ass... But anyway, you would risk getting infected since diseases are transmitted very easy if cannibalism is the norm Smiley (i guess those that tended to develop a taste for their fellow species would vanish because of their taste, leaving the individuals that prefer different species to continue their genes)

    and a last question what do you think about hypocrisy paraded as virtue mab?


    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #319 - March 15, 2011, 03:28 AM

    hey, its even halal too.  SubHannah Montanah  dance


    Is it hallall to decapitate animals? i thought you should cut the throat and leave them to bleed to death....

    Just look at the sun and the moon, rotating around the earth perfectly! Out of all the never ending space in the universe, the sun and moon ended up close to earth rotating around it perfectly.!!

  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #320 - March 15, 2011, 05:35 AM

    I belong to a species that is omnivorous, which makes us quite unique

    Our species' omnivorous behaviour is far from unique.

    You'd have made a better case by appealing to something like our cognition and history of hunter-gatherer behaviour.  And even then:

    Quote
    i am proud of it..

    By sheer chance you happened to have been born an omnivorous (or cognitive etc.) mammal.  What did you accomplish yourself in acquiring such inherent traits that would make you proud?  That's like, to further the dramatic racism analogies, a [insert skin colour] man being proud of whatever shade of melanin helped his ancestors adapt to their environments; or being proud to have been born in a particular country or culture; or of any other circumstance totally beyond his control.

    Quote
    NOT NATURAL STATES OF THE HUMAN

    What would be an able but unnatural state in a human?  Surely social construct is as "natural" to humans as flocking is to birds.

    "Natural" is a rather moot word, or at least should be had we put an end to claims of the "supernatural".

    Quote
    EATING MEAT WHICH IS A EVOLUTIONARY GIFT/ADVANTAGE THAT MADE US TO THOSE WHO WE ARE TODAY

    So is killing other humans for one's own gain, no matter how 'unjust' or 'unfair' (since these concepts are mere social constructions and not natural states, right?).

    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #321 - March 15, 2011, 06:00 AM

    I see MAB has already mabbed to dust all of your "rebuttals" to my points Bardhi_i_zi, which leaves only this:

    Quote from: Bardhi_i_zi
    wrong.. cats, dogs, cattle and horses spread around continents with humans, because humans took them.


    So which of the following representatives of the above listed animal families owe their presence in their respective geographical areas to humans?:

    Ocelot - nocturnal wildcat of Central America and South America having a dark-spotted buff-brown coat

    Coyote [ˈkɔɪəʊt kɔɪˈəʊt kɔɪˈəʊtɪ]
    n pl -otes, -ote
    1. Also called prairie wolf a predatory canine mammal, Canis latrans, related to but smaller than the wolf, roaming the deserts and prairies of North America

    Bi·son  (bsn, -zn)
    n. pl. bison
    1. A bovine mammal (Bison bison) of western North America, having large forequarters, a shaggy mane, and a massive head with short curved horns; a buffalo.
    2. An animal (B. bonasus) of Europe, similar to but somewhat smaller than the bison

    Zebra [ˈziːbrə ˈzɛbrə]
    n pl -ras, -ra
    any of several mammals of the horse family (Equidae), such as Equus burchelli (the common zebra), of southern and eastern Africa, having distinctive black-and-white striped hides

    SOURCE

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #322 - March 15, 2011, 06:25 AM

    This thread isn’t convincing me to stop eating meat. Its convincing me that its not so bad to kill and eat humans. Particularly vegetarians.

    Luckily, I’m not an idiot and already know the difference without even having to think about it or have it explained to me.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #323 - March 15, 2011, 08:08 AM

    Quote
    Luckily, I’m not an idiot and already know the difference without even having to think about it or have it explained to me.


    So for the benefit of those of us who are not quite on your level on the scale of non-idiocy, what IS the difference?

    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #324 - March 15, 2011, 09:07 AM

    This thread isn’t convincing me to stop eating meat. Its convincing me that its not so bad to kill and eat humans.

    That's already one of your fetishes given how often you talk about tearing out hearts and eating them, etc in other threads, its not accurate to blame your cannibalistic tendencies on this thread.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #325 - March 15, 2011, 09:51 AM


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #326 - March 15, 2011, 12:46 PM

    Ishina wrote:



    You obviously gave the poor guy's face a severe stamping on before decapitating him. Who is he? An erstwhile opponent in a college public debate?







    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #327 - March 15, 2011, 01:50 PM

    So how did Ishina know that my post was about her if she hasn't read it?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #328 - March 15, 2011, 07:05 PM

    @Bard

    In a post of three paragraphs you score an impressive four departures from fact out of which you build a coliseum of imbecility. But despair not my lovely, I propose to cure you from your imbecility. Let your medical treatment beginneth …

    Eventhough talking about sexism and racism which are NOT NATURAL STATES OF THE HUMAN BUT SOCIAL CONSTRUCTIONS versus EATING MEAT WHICH IS A EVOLUTIONARY GIFT/ADVANTAGE THAT MADE US TO THOSE WHO WE ARE TODAY

    Setting aside the syntactical atrocity you've created here, the meat industry is no less a social construct than slavery. Animals are herded into cages in which they don’t belong from the cradle to the grave. It’s constructed for the social gain of their exploiters. There’s nothing natural about their captivity.

    Going further, if the killing of one species by another is justified on evolutionary grounds so can the killing of one race by another. Human beings have evolved differently and have always killed each other. Aggression against outsiders is perfectly natural. All of which comes back to the fallacy which has been debunked a thousand times: Appeal to nature.

    Black slaves were enslaved by their black fellows and sold to black markets even be4 the europeans (or arabs) came over there... So how do you explain that?

    The transatlantic slave trade was the process by which one race conquered and enslaved another. Africans may have sold off other Africans to make a buck just as Muslim women are complicit in the subjection of other women by men but it does not alter the fact that racial difference was the driving reason that whites made slaves of blacks because they felt their difference robbed them of their natural rights. The same justification holds for speciesism. And you miss the wider point. Racism is the notion that a man of a different colour does not have the same rights owing to his difference. Ditto Speciesm. To proceed on the grounds of biological difference is to accept the justification for all forms of bigotry.

    I doubt you can dismember my body dear mab, since statistically , knowing that you are Turkish, even if you are average Turk, you would be one head smaller than me  + i am younger and have more advantage to kick your ass... But anyway, you would risk getting infected since diseases are transmitted very easy if cannibalism is the norm

    I did not say that cannabilism was nutritious. Got that? Mashallah! I said that morally speaking there is no difference between eating a different species or a different race. If you can tell me the difference in moral terms between the one or the other I'm all ears. The only argument against exploiting another race is because their difference does not matter. Only their sentience.

    and a last question what do you think about hypocrisy paraded as virtue mab?

    What hypocrisy are you talking about? That I've not always been faithful to my diet? I'm beginning to suspect that you don't understand what the word means. A hypocrite is a man who espouses one thing publically and does the converse privately. I'm openly frank with my past moral failures. I haven't dined on flesh for years and don't brow-beat those who do. I'm here to school those who want to defend the indefensible in the true, the good and the beautiful. And we are making progress.

    I eat animals because they taste good and because I CAN

    I like raping young boys because it feels so good and because I CAN. Would you care to swallow my nine inch meat?
  • Re: Being Vegetarian (continued from shout box)
     Reply #329 - March 15, 2011, 07:24 PM

    Plenty of birds,  animals eat meat without having sharp teeth.  

    Birds don't have teeth Einstein. I've never heard the bugs that birds eat described as meat. The point I'm making is that meat consumption requires the right physiology, the right digestive system that secretes a form of enzyme that breaks down the raw flesh and ensures that it doesn't putrify in the stomach, the right teeth for tearing into a prey. Herbivores don't have any such features. It is a biological phenomenon. We call the facts of biology "natural". These are not relative terms.

    There is nothing natural about our meat diet. Genuine carnivores eat their meat raw. Raw meat will possibly kill a man because of the bacteria which thrive on it. The type of meat that you do eat is a highly manipulated form that is fourty miles removed from what is natural.

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