Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff

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Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
OP - March 12, 2011, 10:03 PM

Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate??

Islam or Secular Humanism .. This discussion was held at the University of Western Ontario between
Br. Hamza Tzortzis (Ex-Humanist, now Muslim) and Dr. Khalid Sohil (Ex-Muslim, now secular Humanist)

well watch all of those 8 videos

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=6AD8EDBEE030FF96

And I am so glad that dr. Khalid Sohil came out openly to discuss, debate and educate the rag-tags of Islam., dr. Khalid Sohil often visisted FFI...

Good.. stuff.. so glad to see the discussions..

Br. Hamza Tzortzis does have a point., and i say he is NOT ex-Humanist., he is still a humanist and a confused Muslim. Boy I didn't realize the brother Tzortzis lacks common sense

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #1 - March 12, 2011, 11:00 PM

Thanks for sharing, dude.

Bookmarked for later viewing.

You are right, it would be more fun to see an orthodox muslim, like a maulana, debating an ex-Muslim.

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #2 - March 12, 2011, 11:02 PM

cool - this is his website http://www.drsohail.com/humanist.aspx. Anyone read his book From Islam to secular humanism or heard of him before?

Perhaps we should invite him over here?

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #3 - March 12, 2011, 11:11 PM

this is his email info@drsohail.com

ETA: actually scratch that,I got it from his website, but its bouncing?

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #4 - March 12, 2011, 11:50 PM

He makes a good point that Ive not come across before in one of the videos.

He says if the Quran really has scientific miracles in there, and you are really not just reverse engineering the Quran as new scientific discoveries are made, then I make a challenge to all Islamic scholars.

Pick up the Quran now and make an unequivocal scientific prediction in the future

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #5 - March 13, 2011, 07:15 AM

The economics part is very weak, as is most Islamic economics.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #6 - March 13, 2011, 08:02 AM

How does " harming a non Muslims under the islamic state is equivalent to harming the prophet himself square with the differences in legal punishments for Muslims and non muslims?

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #7 - March 13, 2011, 08:07 AM

The Quran told muslims that every disease has a cure, therefore Muslims invented Medicine! It couldn't be that, you know, people since the dawn of time have been trying to cure diseases.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #8 - March 13, 2011, 08:09 AM

People have been fighting before religion during religion and after religion so Islam came up with an amazing way to accept this reality. Conquer everyone.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #9 - March 13, 2011, 08:44 AM

Quote from: IsLame on March 12, 2011, 11:50 PM
He says if the Quran really has scientific miracles in there, and you are really not just reverse engineering the Quran as new scientific discoveries are made, then I make a challenge to all Islamic scholars.

Pick up the Quran now and make an unequivocal scientific prediction in the future

Nice, how did the other guy respond?

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #10 - March 13, 2011, 10:24 AM

I dunno. I had it playing in the background whilst surfing on here. I couldnt be bothered listening to the Muslim talk, I just kept forwarding to his parts.

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #11 - March 13, 2011, 12:13 PM

I just can't handle Arabic prayer words, girl wearing scarf and thinking herself on moral high horse, and that bearded guy.. I am not listening.

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #12 - March 13, 2011, 02:54 PM

Thanks yeezevee. I've always wanted to see Hamza Tzortzis debate with an ex-Muslim. I've seen him debate with atheists but always felt disappointed.

I have to admit, Hamza knows how to play the crowd but he is smug and condescending. He rehashes his arguments quite a lot and they feel very scripted.

This is the first time I know of Dr. Khalid Sohil. At first I wasn't sure but warmed up to him pretty quickly. He seems to be winging his arguments but you can tell he talks from the heart. He's like a cool hippie dad I wouldn't mind having.

By the way, what happened near the end has cemented my opinion of Hamzah as a jackass. He told the Ahmadiyah guy not to call him "brother" and called him a kafir to his face. Then he tried to spin it by saying it's Islamic to tell the truth. Not cool.
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #13 - March 13, 2011, 03:00 PM

Quote from: Elias Hakimi on March 13, 2011, 02:54 PM

... my opinion of Hamzah as a jackass. He told the Ahmadiyah guy not to call him "brother" and called him a kafir to his face. Then he tried to spin it by saying it's Islamic to tell the truth. Not cool.

well that monkey is right., How can be a baboon(though harmless) like him will be a brother of an Ahmadiyah guys who are normally well educated non-violent Muslims??

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #14 - March 13, 2011, 03:11 PM

Quote from: Elias Hakimi on March 13, 2011, 02:54 PM
By the way, what happened near the end has cemented my opinion of Hamzah as a jackass. He told the Ahmadiyah guy not to call him "brother" and called him a kafir to his face. Then he tried to spin it by saying it's Islamic to tell the truth. Not cool.

Yeah, I thought that showed him up, and it showed. If I got it right the Ahmediyya brought up an informal conversation he had had with him the day before when he had called him a kaffir. Hamza even said why are you bringing our private chat here.

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #15 - March 13, 2011, 03:49 PM

Quote from: Elias Hakimi on March 13, 2011, 02:54 PM
I have to admit, Hamza knows how to play the crowd but he is smug and condescending. He rehashes his arguments quite a lot and they feel very scripted.

I'd say the same is true of most apologists I've seen.

Quote from: Elias Hakimi on March 13, 2011, 02:54 PM
By the way, what happened near the end has cemented my opinion of Hamzah as a jackass. He told the Ahmadiyah guy not to call him "brother" and called him a kafir to his face. Then he tried to spin it by saying it's Islamic to tell the truth. Not cool.

Shame he can't even acknowledge that they're brothers in humanity.

That's just how deep-seated his bigotry and hatred of the 'kafir' is.

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #16 - March 13, 2011, 05:20 PM

@Yeez

Quote
Br. Hamza Tzortzis does have a point., and i say he is NOT ex-Humanist., he is still a humanist and a confused Muslim. Boy I didn't realize the brother Tzortzis lacks common sense

Quote
well that monkey is right., How can be a baboon(though harmless)

Nonsense. Hamza Tzortzis could sling torrents of anti-kafir slanders with the best of beardos. He's not a nice guy. If you don't believe me, check out this piece of elocution worthy of any batshite bearded zealot.

Relevant part is @ 4:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOw4Mk1QK84&feature=channel_video_title

We as Muslims reject the idea of freedom of speech, and even the idea of freedom...
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #17 - March 13, 2011, 05:22 PM

Quote
I have to admit, Hamza knows how to play the crowd but he is smug and condescending. He rehashes his arguments quite a lot and they feel very scripted.

Quote
I'd say the same is true of most apologists I've seen.

That's because he ripped both the script and the arguments, practically verbatim, from the Christian apologist and propagandist, William Lane Craig. Check out his debates on the Tube and you'll see what I mean.
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #18 - March 13, 2011, 05:59 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on March 13, 2011, 05:20 PM
@Yeez

He's not a nice guy. If you don't believe me, check out this piece of elocution worthy of any batshite bearded zealot.

Relevant part is @ 4:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOw4Mk1QK84&feature=channel_video_title

We as Muslims reject the idea of freedom of speech, and even the idea of freedom...

Well i didn't read and listen to that monkey brother's rubbish Zebedee, after reading his comment on that Ahmadiyah guy from Elias Hakimi , I realized that Hamza Tzortzis is a monkey growing in to baboon., But time is our side., we just need to get these beardos out of the Muslim crowd and show them how bright their brain is and how wonderful the other side of the world without Islam is. After all they are the heroes of present day Islam.

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #19 - March 14, 2011, 09:36 PM

Quote from: Zebedee on March 13, 2011, 05:20 PM
We as Muslims reject the idea of freedom of speech, and even the idea of freedom...

What a complete lunatic.

But at least he doesn't romantically misconstrue that "Islam is freedom".

Quote from: Zebedee on March 13, 2011, 05:22 PM
That's because he ripped both the script and the arguments, practically verbatim, from the Christian apologist and propagandist, William Lane Craig. Check out his debates on the Tube and you'll see what I mean.

The Islamic channel presenter does this same thing.

Muslims tell tales about how they are better than everyone else, and especially the Christians.

I wonder where their intellectual predominance went, if they're reduced to repeating these stupid "logical proofs for god" from WLC.

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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #20 - March 15, 2011, 01:10 AM

Quote from: olweasel on March 14, 2011, 09:36 PM
What a complete lunatic.

I agree. The more people that catch on to just what a little, obnoxious, Islamist shite this man is, the better. May he be run out of town on the end of a sharp, pointy stick.
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #21 - March 15, 2011, 01:37 AM

Quote from: Zebedee on March 13, 2011, 05:22 PM
That's because he ripped both the script and the arguments, practically verbatim, from the Christian apologist and propagandist, William Lane Craig. Check out his debates on the Tube and you'll see what I mean.

The good arguments are strait verbatim WLC, the weak argument like "excessive individualism" ( whatever that means) seem to be his own and the immutable structure of the Quran seems to be a standard among apologists.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
My political philosophy below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
Just kidding, here are some true heros
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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Re: Hmm.. Ex-Muslim verses Muslim debate?? goog stuff..good stuff
Reply #22 - March 15, 2011, 02:23 AM

Yeah, that Adam Deen character is another one. Verbatim regurgitation of WLC is his standard format, even using the same technique of dishonestly misquoting people while making his argument. In a word, he's a tool.
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