Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad

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- three44
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Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
OP - March 14, 2011, 07:54 PM

Hey guys,

I'm trying to figure out the story behind those 3, but I don't get it.
In the tafsir of Maududi, the introduction says that Sura 33 was revealed in the period when Zaid and Zaynab were already divorced.
But why then does the tafsir of verse 33:36 say that that specific verse was sent down at the time when muhammad proposed Zaynab for Zaid (meaning: BEFORE they were even married)?
And verse 37, the one right after, again refers to the 'current' time, that is, the time when Zaid and Zaynab were divorced.

At which time was verse 36 revealed and why was it put along other verses that were revealed at a later time?

Appreciate any help

<dust>: i love tea!!!
<dust>: milky tea
<three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
<dust>: mm
<three>: it's definitely not called neck
<dust>: lol
<three>: what's the word i'm looking for
<dust>: throat
- three44
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #1 - March 14, 2011, 08:22 PM

I guess I should go by the specific tafsir of 33:36 which explicitly says
Quote
Ibn Abbas, Qatadah, Ikrimah and Muqatil bin Hayyan say that this verse was sent down at the time when the Holy Prophet proposed to Zainab for Zaid, and Zainab and her relatives did not agree

The question to me then remains why this verse was compiled in a Sura that for the rest was fully revealed at a later time..

<dust>: i love tea!!!
<dust>: milky tea
<three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
<dust>: mm
<three>: it's definitely not called neck
<dust>: lol
<three>: what's the word i'm looking for
<dust>: throat
- muddy
- The Drama King
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #2 - March 14, 2011, 11:11 PM

Have you not seen this video yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqEFemKJYVU

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- Klingschor
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #3 - March 16, 2011, 09:09 AM

Muhammad's marriage to Zaynab bint Jahish will be covered in my video series about the Prophet
- hairyimp
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #4 - March 16, 2011, 10:27 AM

Well it did disturb me for sometime, by which I mean the sex life of muhammad but I find the importance of it very rudimentary. Although it can be very helpful when debating islam on moral issues but real problem lies in the non-tolerant part of islam not these lust stories

"Religion is the purposeful suspension of critical thinking" Bill Maher
- three44
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #5 - March 16, 2011, 01:07 PM

Quote from: muddy on March 14, 2011, 11:11 PM
Have you not seen this video yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqEFemKJYVU

Thank you for that video muddy, I now remember I saw it once, but didn't realise it was about Zaid and Zainab.

Quote from: Klingschor on March 16, 2011, 09:09 AM
Muhammad's marriage to Zaynab bint Jahish will be covered in my video series about the Prophet

I was actually secretly hoping for that
Looking forward to it. Thank you so much for your efforts in researching Islam and putting it out there!

@imp: All muslims know the non-tolerant part of Islam, and they already have a standard apologetic to throw back at you. I like to spread stories like these around because not many people are aware of them (I think), and it definitely adds to the portrayal of Muhammad as 'just a man like everyone else' - who in cases like this even clearly misuses his power (convenient revelation of verse 36, to get Zaid and Zainab married, after she had refused; convenient revelation of verse 37 to counter the criticism of Muhammad's marriage to Zainab; in both cases things didn't go like Muhammad wanted to, and in both cases Allah suddenly came to the rescue)

<dust>: i love tea!!!
<dust>: milky tea
<three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
<dust>: mm
<three>: it's definitely not called neck
<dust>: lol
<three>: what's the word i'm looking for
<dust>: throat
- hairyimp
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #6 - March 16, 2011, 02:36 PM

Quote from: three44 on March 16, 2011, 01:07 PM
Thank you for that video muddy, I now remember I saw it once, but didn't realise it was about Zaid and Zainab.

I was actually secretly hoping for that
Looking forward to it. Thank you so much for your efforts in researching Islam and putting it out there!

@imp: All muslims know the non-tolerant part of Islam, and they already have a standard apologetic to throw back at you. I like to spread stories like these around because not many people are aware of them (I think), and it definitely adds to the portrayal of Muhammad as 'just a man like everyone else' - who in cases like this even clearly misuses his power (convenient revelation of verse 36, to get Zaid and Zainab married, after she had refused; convenient revelation of verse 37 to counter the criticism of Muhammad's marriage to Zainab; in both cases things didn't go like Muhammad wanted to, and in both cases Allah suddenly came to the rescue)

here is something else for u to consider then

its about maria qutpiya

http://forums.ratedesi.com/showpost.php?p=12099354&postcount=105

"Religion is the purposeful suspension of critical thinking" Bill Maher
- three44
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #7 - March 16, 2011, 03:19 PM

Thanks for the link hairyimp, but I have already seen Hassan's great video on this story ;-)
I'm reading Klingschor's Part 2 of Muhammad's biography and it's just great to see to what lengths Muhammad would go just to keep his ass alive:
the satanic verses to keep the quraish from ripping his ass apart,
suck up to the jews' buttholes by praying to jerusalem, see how things go down,

Recently I also read in Maududi's tafsir, concerning the battle of trench, that Muhammad sent one of his gang to Qurayza to go tell a lie, with the result that Qurayza's alliance with the Quraysh against Muhammad was distorted. At the end of the sentence there's a note, which at the bottom says "it was allowed to tell a lie in that situation" (taqiyya). After the area was safe and clear he could of course just go and behead the whole male population.

I can't grasp how pious muslims know Muhammad's life, the quran and the tafsir, but fail to see him for what he was: a gifted strategic manipulator who's holy for one reason only, being his own claim that he's a prophet from god.

<dust>: i love tea!!!
<dust>: milky tea
<three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
<dust>: mm
<three>: it's definitely not called neck
<dust>: lol
<three>: what's the word i'm looking for
<dust>: throat
- hairyimp
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #8 - March 16, 2011, 05:09 PM

you know I have looked at his life in every angle and the best word I could come up with was a supreme opportunist, which got me into trouble as well but nonetheless fits his profile perfectly.

"Religion is the purposeful suspension of critical thinking" Bill Maher
- Klingschor
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Re: Zaid, Zaynab and Muhammad
Reply #9 - March 18, 2011, 05:38 AM

Quote from: three44 on March 16, 2011, 01:07 PM
I was actually secretly hoping for that
Looking forward to it. Thank you so much for your efforts in researching Islam and putting it out there!

Thank you for your support - the episode concerning Zaynab is a really intriguing one, and offers two poignent examples of Muhammad's convenient post hoc Revelations.

Firstly, we see how Muhammad brushed aside older Arabic customs to have his way with his foster-son's attractive wife (who also happened to be his cousin).

Secondly, we see how Muhammad was conviently allowed to marry more than four wives, thanks to another timely Revelation.

This video series (The Skeptic's Introduction to Islam) is just the beginning - by the end of this year, I will have destroyed, debunked, refuted and/or explained the three greatest Evidences of Islam:

1. The Qur'an (Regarding its Origins, Compilation, Structure and Content)

2. The swift ascendancy of Islam (The spread and context of the Rashidoun and Oumayyad Caliphates)

3. The Golden Age of Arabic Science (Regarding how Islam was antithetical to all the main fields of Science that flourished during this era, and how its luminaries, methodology and achievements were deemed as heretical, blasphemous and pointless by the Ulemah)
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