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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hello

 (Read 9294 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Hello
     OP - March 14, 2011, 09:55 PM

    Hello everybody,

    First of all I apologize for my bad English but I hope I'll be able to express myself.

    I am a Turkish ex-Muslim 28 year-old currently living in Turkey. I was born into a sunni (hanafi) conservative family that later on became ultra-conservative. I started having Quran lessons when I was 8 in our local mosque. The first thing I faced there was to be beaten by quran teacher if I was not able to say rahman'ur rahim. Coz h in Arabic sounds different than in Turkish. Until I learned how to voice it I was beaten for the sake of who was Rahman and Rahim! The second thing was houris (virgins)! At the age of 8, I learned about houris in paradise which would be my reward if I died as a good Muslim. Today talking about sexual matters with a minor is called child abuse! Since then until the age of 12 when I was sent to a Islamic mid-school by my father I continued summer courses in our local mosque where carpets were smelling very bad coz of dirty socks' smells. Every summer I attended to courses and learned about Hell and Paradise, how Allah was gonna punish us from our grave to Hell if we died as sinful Muslim or as an infidel, how Allah was gonna reward us with beautiful houris, cups of wines etc if we died as a good Muslim, of course how to read quran in arabic even none of us was understanding what was written on that book.

    Until the day I started Islamic mid-school my family gradually became even more conservative. I was told so many good stories about Mohammad who was our leader (even if he was not alive) and in that school I would be educated very well both in science and religion of Islam. After 3 years of disgusting education my dreams were raped by ignorant teachers of that school. I was so brainwashed by my family that I would be a good Muslim with education that I was going to have there. We children who were going to this school would be an example for many to show how a Muslim can be religious and good educated in science. This was rubbish I later realized. Forget about Islamic matters even if you wanted to argue with your teacher about scientific facts either you were silenced (sometimes by force) or labelled as munafiq. But what did I do? I continued to this school from 1st year of high-school. Why did I do that? I found its answer after years when I studied a bit psychology. It was called Stockholm Syndrome. Don't laugh! Seriously.

    I changed the school, starting from 1st year again I found myself in a very different enviroment. I saw the most beautiful girl in my life whose name was Ayse (Aisha). I fall in love with her that during my 3 years high-school education I never could say "I love you". What could I do? Allah was forbidding flirt. I lived with this love's hurt in my heart for years in order to make my Allah pleased. I was not socilazed, stayed away from my classmates coz they were talking with girls. Since we were adolescent it was haraam (sin) to talk with each other. Allah was forbidding this too. My conflict with belief started during this 3 years. Reason and belief for the first time was on same ground fighting with each other. After finishing high-school we had devastating two earthquakes in Istanbul. Again I found myself under Islamic myths bombardments that these earthquakes were warning to us coz Allah was again very angry with our behaviours. We were not good enough Muslims and Allah was giving us harsh lessons to understand he was not happy with us! Those days I stopped thinking about reason but belief. I held it tightly. I joined an Islamic missionary organization that my family was part of. I stayed a few years abroad, telling Islam and trying to convince non-Muslims to convert to Islam. Smiley But my washed brain was playing a game with me. It wasn't accepting some matters in Islam. I was doing all I can to avoid these thoughts trying to convince myself that Islam was all perfect. Due to some problems I left my university study halfway and returned back to country. My family was not happy with this. They took it as dishonouring. I should never came back but work for Islam even if I was having problems with my muslim fellows or any other matter. It was the worst oppression I ever felt. I still face it.

    After my return I started working in a company where I met with secular or less religious people. I was praying 5 times a day. Didn't left any practice of Islam. But some things were being changed in my mind parallel with my thoughts. I was talking with my woman co-workers even was going to lunch with them that I would never do. In business life I met a lot of people from different believes, political views etc. This inflamed my conflict of reason and belief again.

    The strongest shock came from Turkish ex-muslims on Youtube. I found Mohammed cartoons video by chance and saw many more anti-islamic videos made by Turkish infidels. There were comment fights below videos. I joined to those debates for a few months to defend Islam. All my arguments were taught before and actually baseless. Every time logic was the winner. Some of them were saying "I wipe my a.. with quran" that was leaving me in fear. Coz I heard stories about it many times from many Muslims (e.g. Turkish, Arab...) like Allah was turning them to monkeys, donkeys, dogs, pigs or killing them harshly that they were suffering so much to become a good example for those who intend to wipe his a.. with holy book. But those guys were exceptions! Nothing happened to them. This led me to really challenge Islam. After 3 years (last year finally) I left Islam. My previous years were full of psychological traumas. Today as a let say crypto-Murtad (apostate) I feel better and happy about my life.

    Do you think that I was so stupid? Yes! I was made so stupid by from my family to whole Muslim community that I was surrounded by.

    Anyway, here I am as an ex-Muslim. Thanks to those brave-hearts who established this council of ex-muslims. I wish we had the same here in Turkey.








    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #1 - March 14, 2011, 10:30 PM

    Finally the belated intro!  What do you think of this place far?  As a freshie, how do you think it could be improved etc?  (btw your English is perfectly fine)

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #2 - March 14, 2011, 10:32 PM

    Welcome TurkishInfidel.   parrot 

    (There's nothing wrong with your english, don't worry).

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #3 - March 14, 2011, 10:59 PM

    Hosh gelmissiniz din kardeshim benim  Afro
    I am indeed Turkish too, although I don't live in Turkey but rather have lived in Europe my whole life. However, I can certainly relate to your situation, we come frm somewhat comparable backgrounds.
    Ofcourse we haven't forgotten the devestating earthquakes which hit Turkey,- in 1999. But I pretty much feel so sorry for those people who , instead of getting embarassed, rather try to purport this actions as being a mercy from Allah "as the worldly punishments are nothing compared to hellfire".
    Just a day ago I was talking with my dad about the recent tsunami, and I was telling him about fault lines and what else causes earthquakes, but he just shook his head and said " no, no: Only Allah can know where and when he's gonna hit!"  lipsrsealed

    Perhaps you might know, there are plenty of certain religious "jamaat" in Turkey, - I was a part of them and got my Islamic education there.(You should be aware of the fact that we (European Turks) are generally more religous/conservative , hence all kinds of Turkish/Islamic communities are to be found here.)
    In fact, I wanted to "spread the right(i.e.: Their version of Islam) and teach Qur'an" and by doing so earn lots of sawab and doing the most noble task ever imaginable..
    How deluded I was.

    I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #4 - March 14, 2011, 11:01 PM

    welcome soldier of reason and logic Smiley

    nice to see and hear from you...

    stay safe  parrot

    Muhammad lied... he invented Islam for power, money and sex...xxx
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #5 - March 15, 2011, 01:42 AM

    Welcome,  parrot and you're English is really good. Thanks for taking the time to share your story.

    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #6 - March 15, 2011, 07:12 AM

    Welcome and your type of story is something many of us are familiar with many people can help and support you during some of these hard times Smiley
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #7 - March 15, 2011, 09:03 AM

    I am pleased to see such a detailed introduction.  I live in the UK, I find that people on the Internet who start a post asking forgiveness for their English typically go on to write better English than many of the people who live near me Smiley

    Welcome!

    PS: Did you ever come across those "Scientists confirm the Quran" videos?  If so, what did you think of them?

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #8 - March 15, 2011, 10:04 AM

    I am suprised that you experienced such trauma, especially in a strong secular country as Turkey.

    Welcome.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #9 - March 15, 2011, 11:26 AM

    Hello TurkishInfidel, very interesting introduction  Afro

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hello
     Reply #10 - March 15, 2011, 11:30 AM

    It's astounding how you turned out in spite of forcing you to Islam school. The most extreme atheists come from conservative families. I've seen that with my own eyes. Enjoy your stay my friend.

    I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #11 - March 15, 2011, 05:24 PM

    I want to warmly thank to all of you for your welcoming posts.  thnkyu

    @IsLame

    Great place indeed. It's very good to be here. For the time being all I can say about improving is Advice Corner. Coz I believe many fresh ex-Muslims will urgently need help especially in psychological matters.



    @MnfqKfrMrtd

    “But I pretty much feel so sorry for those people who , instead of getting embarassed, rather try to purport this actions as being a mercy from Allah "as the worldly punishments are nothing compared to hellfire".” That's right. I missed this point. I wasn't able to tell every detail but that's nice you reminded it. Unfortunately, even many took it as mercy of Allah before going to hell. Allah killed dozens of babies, many in arms of their mothers just to remind us Hell! How Merciful is Allah. :S

    Yeah, I was a member of those jamaats. If I say the biggest and most influential in political arena in Turkey may give you an idea about which one I was working for. It is nice to see Turkish ex-Muslim fellows here too.

    @TheRationalizer

    The most well-known for me the ones of Harun Yahya's. Smiley After he had his lesson from Richard Dawkins on “Atlas of Creation” he has no any credibility in my eyes. But I should admit those guys really do great job by using photoshop even sometimes they make mistakes!

    @Pashtun

    First of all, I guess we should ask this question. Is Turkey a strong secular country? Answer is very short and clear: NO! Is Turkey somehow a secular country? Answer is again very short and clear: NO! Turkey enjoyed of secularism for only around 13 years! Secularism had been added to our constitution by year of 1937 which means only 14 years later of modern republic was founded. In theory it remained in constitutions (there has been 3 different constitutions since republic's establishment) but in practice by year of 1950 Adhan was again being recited in Arabic. That was a turning point. We later on realized that Turkey was not on its secular roots but gradually becoming an Islamic state. Right wing poitical parties dominated and strongly effected state's politics in some certain times. Army did intervene into politics to save secularism but each try created new social and economical problems. The last military coup in 1980 seemed to protect the country from civil war between leftists & rightists but again we could realize that it was to make Islamist movements stronger. Military coup leader Gen. Kenan Evren became president and Turgut Ozal who was admirer of the US opened a new path in politics. Conservative – liberalism which was new for Turks. While benefitting from capitalism strenghtening “islamic values” among the nation. First in his term in office critisizing “Islamic values” became a crime by new laws. Today's Islamist AKP following this stream. Mr. Erdogan is more religious than him. He once said in the past “Being secular and being muslim at the same time is impossible, these cannot go along. You'll either become a secular or muslim”. Today he is pretending to be guardian of secularism. So since 1950 actually in practice secularism was changed to Islamism. And we are witnessing of collapse of secularism in country.

    Secondly, we should ask this question. Is Turkish nation religious? This answer can be confusing for those who do not know much about Turkish people. Answer is yes and no! On one hand they are very proud of being Muslims even they can kill someone for the sake of Islam but on the other hand when it comes to practicing Islam you'll see most of them live like infidels from Islamic perspective! Vast majority of Turks are sunni hanafi and most of them go to mosque only for Friday prayers and eid prayers. You'll see them fasting in Ramadan and visiting mosques(as if mosques are holy places like ka'ba). Most of them do not pay Zakat. Again vast majority of them go to Hajj when they're over their 50s. They enjoy life behind the curtain but in the public eyes you'll see them so pro-islamist. This hypocrisy can be seen in Iran and some other Arab nations as well. Vast majority of Turks cannot read Quran in Arabic (even many who can do this, they do not understand) and they have not even read Turkish translation of it once in their lives. Their Islamic knowledge based on hearsay. People like me have traumas because of this. We were ordered to live Islam strictly since our childhood. Being a pious Muslim in a society where people pretend being Muslims is maybe harder than in non-muslim communities. People like me are exceptions. We lived in this kind of society like living in Afghanistan in our personal lives. I was not allowed to go to the cinema, I have never gone to the cinema until now coz I was told films were containing unappropriate scenes like adultery. I was never allowed to go to the beach to swim and have sunbath coz there were full of “naked women” which was haraam too! I can give more examples but don't want to bother you.

    Your question is short but answer is longer than this. I tried to explain it briefly. Smiley

    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #12 - March 15, 2011, 05:38 PM

    @TurkishInfidel,

    I am not sure whether Ataturk&Co. did a good job in fighting religion by being so harshly against it, totally ignoring the fact that the vast majority of the people were(still are ) religious.(Although the figure of 99% is totally wrong though.)
    This extreme intolerance against religion(of which Turkish adhan was a part of) heavily polarized the country and fueled hatred against secularism,- as people equated secularism as being against religion.

    However, nor am I totally anti-Ataturk (and his reforms) , as I used to be when I was religous, nor I am totally in favor of his reforms. It is a difficult question, - on the one hand he wanted to prevent the religious people getting into power, but his extreme hatred against religion actually caused people to become even more fanatic in their religion.

    I mean: What is the point in trying to ban a party which got 47% of the vote!? And do those (Kemalists) really think they did secularim any favour!?
    No,- the only way to let people know religion is false is by giving people a decent education and giving them the tools,namely logical thinking, exposure to science and the scientific method etc.

    I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #13 - March 15, 2011, 05:44 PM

    Hello everybody,

    First of all I apologize for my bad English but I hope I'll be able to express myself.

    I am a Turkish ex-Muslim 28 year-old currently living in Turkey. ..

    Anyway, here I am as an ex-Muslim.  

    Hi TurkishInfidel., No.. You have great English ., Welcome to CEMB., I am just curious about this man..


    http://www.fethullahgulen.org/

    I wonder whether you could tell me something about his followers in Turkey

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #14 - March 15, 2011, 05:54 PM

    We are both Turks. We know our nation. I agree on that revolution and following reforms were very shocking for a nation lived as Muslim for centuries. You said "the only way to let people know religion is false is by giving people a decent education and giving them the tools,namely logical thinking, exposure to science and the scientific method etc." The percentage of literate people was approximately %40 at the time of establishment of Republic. New state introduced modern schools with western education system, vast majority did not send their children to schools (esp. girls) in order to prevent them to become infidels (gavur)! We have to take this into account too. Didn't secular reformists do mistakes? Yes they did many. But we are talking about a nation which was not fond of modern education. Even today, in 2011 Turks are one of the most ignorant nation about evolution theory. We still blame people who defend evolution of being grandchild of monkeys!

    I agree with you on some mistakes made by reformists but I do not agree with you on polarization urged because of it. Republic was a new and never seen experience for a nation who was calling Sultan as father. Modern education and obligatory to sending children to schools were new and frightening for a nation only 40% were literate.

    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #15 - March 15, 2011, 06:10 PM

    @yeezevee

    Hello. Would you introduce yourself a bit please? I am new and do not know much about forum users.

    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #16 - March 15, 2011, 06:13 PM

    Hey TurkishInfidel..
    Welcome to the forum.. bunny

    My introduction is here: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=12225.0

    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #17 - March 15, 2011, 09:29 PM

    I wonder whether you could tell me something about his followers in Turkey


    This guy has millions of followers in Turkey and elsewhere. The leading , somewhat pro-Islamic, party of Turkey is heavily influenced by this man. His followers generally despise the Ataturk/secularism, but from what I've seen they aren't really into the "let's bring back shariah." ( I know a few (highly ranked) of them personally.) Rather, they don't have problems with secular laws, but they do feel very much frightened by secularists, as many of those secularists are very contra-religion.
    His followers are spread throughout the world and they have many schools/boarding schools etc.

    Many Muslims in Turkey however don't agree with this man, as he has made quite a few statements going against traditional Islam( see: Religious dialogue/tolerance programs.) They accuse this man of watering down Islam and forging a new light Islam under the supervision of vatican/usa etc.
    The secularists , on the other hand, claims this man is a master in "taqiyya" and will soon establish a full fledged sharia in Turkey,- ogf which Akp(=leading party) is paving the way for.

    I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #18 - March 15, 2011, 09:41 PM

    Welcome to the forum, TurkishInfidel! Great story.

    When I was reading your introduction, I was thinking of this Turkish girl I know here who's wear hijab and all. Her name is Ayse too Tongue
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #19 - March 15, 2011, 09:46 PM

    This guy has millions of followers in Turkey and elsewhere. .................

    The secularists , on the other hand, claims this man is a master in "taqiyya" and will soon establish a full fledged sharia in Turkey,- ogf which Akp(=leading party) is paving the way for.

    I wonder whether you  or TurkishInfidel  can recognize his voice in this audio and I would  greatly appreciate if you could translate a bit of it..

    http://www.4shared.com/audio/4BeP0jdy/23_Kasim_79__Kabe_baskini_.html

    @yeezevee

    Hello. Would you introduce yourself a bit please? I am new and do not know much about forum users.

    Well as far as I am concerned, I am interested in Islam for long time and i have a bit of background as Shia Muslim but I am Not  a Muslim   neither my parents are. I come from South Asia and where ever i spend a night I consider that as my house and that place as my country.. A nomad life..


    with best regards
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #20 - March 15, 2011, 09:51 PM

    @DARKEYED9

    Thank you. Ayse is a very common name among Turks Smiley By the way I was reading your thread about your personal problems. I tried to find a solution, but got no idea. I understand your problem actually, coz I know it from my life. But when it comes to finding a solution, got no idea. Huh? So sorry for that.

    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #21 - March 15, 2011, 09:55 PM

    I wonder whether you  or TurkishInfidel  can recognize his voice in this audio and I would  greatly appreciate if you could translate a bit of it..

    http://www.4shared.com/audio/4BeP0jdy/23_Kasim_79__Kabe_baskini_.html
    Well as far as I am concerned, I am interested in Islam for long time and i have a bit of background as Shia Muslim but I am Not  a Muslim   neither my parents are. I come from South Asia and where ever i spend a night I consider that as my house and that place as my country.. A nomad life..


    with best regards
    yeezevee


    Well I am sorry, coz this link cannot be reached from my country. I could personally recognize his voice but since I am not able to listen or watch it, I'll not be able to help you. Or if you have any other link that I can reach, it's okay then.

    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #22 - March 15, 2011, 09:57 PM

    Assalamu Alaykum Brother,

    I hope Allah makes your stay as enjoyable as possible. Ameen.

  • Re: Hello
     Reply #23 - March 15, 2011, 09:59 PM

    Well I am sorry, coz this link cannot be reached from my country....

    really why?  is that site Blocked in Turkey? Well let me see whether i could put in to Utube..

    How about this link  http://www.frmtr.com/kultur/626103-kabe-baskini.html

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #24 - March 15, 2011, 10:01 PM

    Assalamu Alaykum Brother,

    I hope Allah makes your stay as enjoyable as possible. Ameen.



    Salam Alayk brother,

    I'd be happy if he offered me 72 virgins right now that I would spend my time with them rather than wasting it here with infidels who are gonna burn in hell eternally.  Wink

    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #25 - March 15, 2011, 10:02 PM

    really why?  is that site Blocked in Turkey? Well let me see whether i could put in to Utube..

    Well there are so many banned websites that we do not even follow the news about them. Recently blogspot.com was banned. :(

    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #26 - March 15, 2011, 10:07 PM

    Well there are so many banned websites that we do not even follow the news about them. Recently blogspot.com was banned. :(

     Oh I see., You mean they ban Anti-islamic sites over  there??  how about this link http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/  ?? Any way  I have that speech on my hard drive., I can send you by e-mail,  it is Mp-3 file..

    with best
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #27 - March 15, 2011, 10:09 PM

    really why?  is that site Blocked in Turkey? Well let me see whether i could put in to Utube..

    How about this link  http://www.frmtr.com/kultur/626103-kabe-baskini.html


    So there is no sound but forum thread telling about 79 Qa'ba raid. Pro-raid comment though. It's not about banning totally all anti-islamic websites. Due to some reasons individuals complain about it and court take decision to ban some websites. The only difference with the West is it is very easy to ban a website here.

    By the way, you said you wanna convert to Islam. Are you serious or it's kinda joke? If you are serious I regret to tell you that I do not help people to convert Islam. If it is a joke, I should admit that it is not funny.  wacko

    Turkish ex-Muslim
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #28 - March 15, 2011, 10:30 PM

    So there is no sound but forum thread telling about 79 Qa'ba raid. Pro-raid comment though. It's not about banning totally all anti-islamic websites. Due to some reasons individuals complain about it and court take decision to ban some websites. The only difference with the West is it is very easy to ban a website here.

    I wonder how to get the list of banned anti- Islamic blogs/websites in Turkey....

    How about this TURKEY ..  http://www.harunyahya.com/   is he (Adanan Oktar) popular there??

    Quote
    By the way, you said you wanna convert to Islam. Are you serious or it's kinda joke? If you are serious I regret to tell you that I do not help people to convert Islam. If it is a joke, I should admit that it is not funny.  wacko

    Me.. converting to Islam?? did I say that?? Many of my near and dear will certainly  LOVE THAT..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hello
     Reply #29 - March 15, 2011, 10:42 PM

    I wonder how to get the list of banned anti- Islamic blogs/websites in Turkey....

    How about this TURKEY ..  http://www.harunyahya.com/   is he (Adanan Oktar) popular there??

    Me.. converting to Islam?? did I say that?? Many of my near and dear will certainly  LOVE THAT..


    There is no list of those websites banned by authorities. I mean I do not have it. You may google it. Harun Yahya made Mr. Dawkins' website banned some time ago. But it is not banned anymore.

    When it comes to harunyahya.com there are people following this guy. But I do not find him credible. He has been being called as Mahdi by his followers and he does not refuse this claim. To have some idea about him just check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLVtIZrRyKQ out. It is in Turkish and he is making a lot HOT compliments to chicks he's been hosting in his TV shows.

    Meanwhile I am sorry for misunderstanding.

    Turkish ex-Muslim
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