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 Topic: I have a debate this Sunday

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  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #90 - March 23, 2011, 04:20 AM
    .
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #91 - March 23, 2011, 07:02 AM
    im still watching but its great how you are teaching them while they argue haha
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #92 - March 23, 2011, 07:24 AM
    I'm from England, it's a Birmingham accent. Voted the least attractive accent in the UK, so I have to compensate with a fantastic moustache Wink
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #93 - March 23, 2011, 07:58 AM
    I rather like your accent, Rationalizer. It goes well with your moustache.

    The guy you were debating was painful to listen to, but interesting debate nonetheless.
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #94 - March 23, 2011, 08:08 AM
    great video very well argued and so confidently destroying those guys to bad they will never admit to it.
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #95 - March 23, 2011, 08:28 AM
    watched it all great man really great! You are a very patient and intelligent man! I admire your softness that most of us atheists do not have. Cheer!
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #96 - March 23, 2011, 08:33 AM
    When I asked him why god would give Baleen whales teeth during embryonic development that they cannot use and then take them away before they are born and can use them I loved his response "Why not?  It's not pointless, God can do what he wants" Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #97 - March 23, 2011, 08:40 AM
    Found the bible verse which describes the heavens as a canopy

    Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #98 - March 23, 2011, 09:57 AM
    By the way. I decided from watching it that I need to be quiet more, and that I am far too fucking repetitive and over labour the point.

    I'd like criticism please, I want my next debate to be much better.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #99 - March 23, 2011, 12:15 PM
    I thought you handled perfectly & did a far better job than I could have hoped to have done.  Poor things realised early on that they were totally outsmarted & looked totally bamboozled  Cheesy
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  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #100 - March 23, 2011, 12:18 PM
    I loved the face palm he did when I gave the invisible palm dinosaur example.  He thought I was a complete idiot, and yet didn't even realise that I had just demonstrated how ridiculous his stance on Islam is "I believe it because I cannot disprove it"
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #101 - March 23, 2011, 12:38 PM
    Yep I liked that bit with invisible dinosaur example on the palm of your hand.

    Also @1:56 Why would God create animals with eyes that dont work  Cheesy

    The art in discussions like this is to keep it jovial without coming across as adversarial or condescending.  How did you manage to do that?
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  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #102 - March 23, 2011, 12:40 PM
    I didn't do anything, I just talked to them how I talk to everyone.  Take the piss out of them, take the piss out of myself, try to have a good laugh and enjoy myself Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #103 - March 23, 2011, 01:12 PM
    The discussion was awesome. Afro  It was a bit long but worth watching.  Good job you recorded it and posted it onto the internet.  There aren't many Muslim vs Atheist layman discussions on the interwebs.
    The stupid singing in the background was annoying, I must say.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #104 - March 23, 2011, 01:15 PM
    He first tried to chat with me in a room upstairs of the building, but the Internet connection there was so poor that we couldn't get the chat to work.  That's why I start the conversation by asking if Allah had willed for them to sit in the room they are in just so that they could be more comfortable Smiley

    I'd like to do it again.  I hope he presents a more challenging debater next time, it will be good fun.  I'd like to be presented with some questions I cannot see through, something new.  I get them on YouTube sometimes, and they are always the most fun.

    If I do then I shall record that too.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #105 - March 23, 2011, 01:19 PM
    Btw, kudos to you and them for keeping the discussion friendly and jovial. Afro
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #106 - March 23, 2011, 01:20 PM
    Yes, they were very hospitable.  I just love the guy Tasneef who hardly spoke during the event, he always has a big cheesy grin on his face Smiley
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #107 - March 23, 2011, 03:51 PM
    Quote from: debunker on March 23, 2011, 03:48 AM
    what nationality is TR? He sounds Australian, does he not?


    LOL!
    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #108 - March 23, 2011, 03:54 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 23, 2011, 12:38 PM
    Also @1:56 Why would God create animals with eyes that dont work  Cheesy

    btw which animal were you referring to?
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  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #109 - March 23, 2011, 04:08 PM
    Quote from: IsLame on March 23, 2011, 03:54 PM
    btw which animal were you referring to?


    A mole has vestigial eyes. They start to develop during the embryo stage but then their development is stunted, they also have a layer of skin that grows over them.  They now use these eyes to sense day/night in order to sync their body clocks with the rotation of the Earth, but this is obviously a vestigial function as you do not need a binocular implementation in order to achieve it.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #110 - March 23, 2011, 04:57 PM
    Quote
    Many cave dwelling animals, such as the fish Astyanax mexicanus (the Mexican tetra) and the salamander species Typhlotriton spelaeus and Proteus anguinus, are blind yet have rudimentary, vestigial eyes (Besharse and Brandon 1976; Durand et al. 1993; Jeffery 2001; Kos et al. 2001). The eyes of the Mexican tetra have a lens, a degenerate retina, a degenerate optic nerve, and a sclera, even though the tetra cannot see (Jeffery 2001). The blind salamanders have eyes with retinas and lenses, yet the eyelids grow over the eye, sealing them from outside light (Durand et al. 1993; Kos et al. 2001).


    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section2.html
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #111 - March 23, 2011, 04:58 PM
    I found the white guy constantly yawning when you were talking at the beginning very funny. He seemed like a comedy sidekick backing up his leader! They seemed generally nice enough though, especially the similey guy in blue top. Your debating skills and quick thinking and general manner towards them were very impressive.

    As for ideas for improving next debate, I don't know if there's a purpose or aim from your point of view other than for enjoyment, but one thing I notice is that pretty much the whole time was spent with you defending against their arguments supporting God or the qur'an. Not so much of it had them having to think about difficult questions as you point out things that in your opinion make their idea of God unlikely & make the qur'an look manmade (I know you mentioned a few things and you pointed out evolution evidence). It might leave them with the impression you just deny positive reasons to believe it.

    I get the feeling from their last question they might ask you next time about your statement that you only believe things that have been proven. I wonder if they or their proposed debater friend will risk going on the scientific miracles stuff again (they might also have seen your youtube channel videos now). Maybe they'll try mathematical ones next or question evolution/cosmology.

    It's interesting to see again a general tactic that religious people sometimes use in debates: challenging the other side on whether a particular scientific claim about the earth or universe or evolution has actually been observed (in this case has anyone proven that the Earth itself was made in a gravitational accretion process).
    http://quranspotlight.wordpress.com/
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #112 - March 23, 2011, 05:02 PM
    I didn't really have a purpose with this debate other than to have a fun chat and hopefully to get them to think about stuff they had not thought of before, or perhaps to get them to think in a way they have not before.  I don't think I succeeded on that front, we shall know later if Ayaz actually comes back to me with the fruits of his research.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #113 - March 23, 2011, 05:18 PM
    They certainly didn't seem to have as much fun as you by the end! I guess they understandably hoped beforehand that they might persuade you to their point of view (they seemed to have a step by step process in mind (first establish that there's a creator, then...). They had your best interests at heart I imagine.

    I guess it's hard to switch to going on the offensive with your own questions without seeming like an evil atheist trying to put doubts in their heads. It might have ruined the atmosphere plus it sounds like you're not interested in actually deconverting them as it were (they seem quite happy with their faith), more to expand their thinking as you say.
    http://quranspotlight.wordpress.com/
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #114 - March 23, 2011, 06:05 PM
    Quote from: nj7 on March 23, 2011, 05:18 PM
    They certainly didn't seem to have as much fun as you by the end! I guess they understandably hoped beforehand that they might persuade you to their point of view (they seemed to have a step by step process in mind (first establish that there's a creator, then...).


    Yes, I guessed before the event that the approach would be

    1: Here is something big that science cannot prove yet
    2: How did it happen?
    3: Don't know? Must have been Allah then

    Theists like to try to get you to ignore the goal post 30 feet away and aim for the one on the moon.  That's why I went straight ahead and for the sake of argument conceded that god exists, created the universe, and started life in some form or other.  That way we could concentrate our time on "Why is it YOUR god that did it?".  Otherwise we'd have argued for 2 hours about cosmology and they'd have left thinking I was insane Smiley

    It's best to unravel the garment at the edges, not from the middle.

    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #115 - March 23, 2011, 11:14 PM
    Well said rationalized sometimes we loose sight and try to deconstruct peoplea viewpoint atthe heart instead of going at it from the fringe and slowly chip away to get to the center. Again great video.
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #116 - March 23, 2011, 11:28 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 23, 2011, 04:20 AM
    Yes, I found the accent uproarious. What is that? I don't think he's an Aussie because I work with an Australian guy and the sounds he makes with his vocal cords are a monstrosity. Plague take him! Nothing like TR.

    fuck off
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    --
    Previously donatelo
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    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #117 - March 24, 2011, 04:31 AM
    It was too long for me to watch all of it, but the parts I did watch seemed pretty fun.  Good job TR.  BTW saw your Quran/scientist video on the Atheist Media blog. 
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
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  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #118 - March 24, 2011, 10:50 AM
    That was brilliant TR. Truly enjoyed it. It was long but had a nice build up. You could sense that they were slowly realising that they were out of their depth and unprepared.

    Quote from: TheRationalizer on March 22, 2011, 05:21 PM
    Did anyone catch the name of the "guy who debates atheists" that he wanted me to talk to?  I can't make it out.

    It's funny how they had different 'specialties'. One was good with Christianity, another was a Quranic Science expert but they didn't have one for agnostics/atheists. Which is why they suggested Hamza Tzortzis to debate against.

    Now that's a debate I'd like to see since it's about time Hamza is put down by a well prepared debater. Although you'd have to work on your presentation and crowd pleasing skills if they're lacking.
  • Re: I have a debate this Sunday
     Reply #119 - March 24, 2011, 10:58 AM
    Yes, I watched a Hamza video yesterday.  His arguments are weak and easily discredited, but he shouts well.

    I think given a crowd I could shout just as amusingly as Hamza does Smiley  Still, I'd rather do it on video without the crowd.  I think I'll need to get my iPad app finished so I can quickly reference stuff before doing anything like that.  I remember what is in the Quran just not where it is.

    Would be great fun though.  Besides, Hamza's approach is "does god exist" - whereas I am happy to start after that, so I suspect his arguments would fall pretty flat.
    I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
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