Help me return to Islam

Previous page 1 2 34 5 ... 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
- muddy
- The Drama King
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #60 - March 23, 2011, 08:03 PM

That reminds me, I can share my brother's story too. Although he still is a hardcore muslim. But he had been way too polite to his wife and loved her way too much. Even gets very defensive about her at many times. But she keep on using him, and then started abusing him, then crossed all the limits, hitting and injuring him. Anyways, it ended up in messy divorce, still have to exchange kid at police station even after 2 years.. (most of the parents stop exchanging at police station after 4 months or so, because they start picking up at homes).

Dude, if you can't enforce even stopping circumcision on a muslim woman, dude you are doomed!

Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
Islam's Last Stand (page)
Islam's Last Stand (group)
and many others...
- mufa9a
- Ex-Muslim
- Bookworm is the new sexy
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #61 - March 23, 2011, 08:23 PM

^

you totally shattered my vision.

"Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
- mufa9a
- Ex-Muslim
- Bookworm is the new sexy
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #62 - March 23, 2011, 08:31 PM

Quote from: muddy on March 23, 2011, 08:03 PM
Dude, if you can't enforce even stopping circumcision on a muslim woman, dude you are doomed!

Yeah, Because a Muslim woman can't be strong willed

"Tomorrow is the today you were worried about yesterday" Unknown
- MnfqKfrMrtd
- Vowels aren't written dude.
- Member
- Sub7anallah! MIRACLE
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #63 - March 23, 2011, 08:34 PM

What is seen can't be unseen.
Life can and will never be the same after one has thought about exactly those questions the Muslims are so frightened of:
Is the Qur'an really from God? What evidence do we have? The Qur'an always talks about "those who follow their parents without thinking": Are we also as them? Why are conversions so seldom? Why does the Qur'an read like a fairy tale, full with nonsensical fables and threats? Why are there many Islamic sects, while the Qur'an says Islam is one? How can everlasting torture be reconciled with a mercifull God?
Once you begin thinking about those questions,- there is no way back. The hard truth I suppose.

I shouldn't be here. Really. Shaytan SWT deluded ALL of us. Amen.
- debunker
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #64 - March 23, 2011, 08:49 PM

I think AbuYunus3 might add a lot to this thread... then again, perhaps he doesn't want to share his secret formula as to how he could keep both his marriage and beliefs (or lack thereof).

AbuYunus, if you're reading this, please show yourself!

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
- musivore
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #65 - March 23, 2011, 08:52 PM

Mr Bison – I’m not going anywhere. My wife has chosen to break our peaceful equilibrium; so, I have no qualms about being on this website anymore.
Mr Rational – I’m guilty as charged. But you already know that. You speak many harsh truths. But they are truths nonetheless. However, despite that, I can’t see myself changing, ever.
Mighty Cats – through Islame’s previous advice to me, I have tried reasoning with her many times. I’ve tried using the humanist angle, amongst other things. But I honestly think that the more I reason with her, the more she is driven towards reforming me. Which leaves me with only two alternatives – either accept Islam or end our marriage. The reason I am clinging to any advice that favours me continuing my marriage is that I really want it to work, almost at any cost. I just want this issue to go away, so that we can enjoy the rest of our lives together. But you’re right, by conforming, there is no guarantee that our relationship will last, but I can only hope and pray that it does.
FYI, I am not being pushed into praying or going to Mecca or anything like that. My wife hardly ever prays herself. All I have to do is acknowledge that God exists (when all evidence points against this, but I don’t want to get drawn into that debate with agnostics), and that that hairy chancer called Mohammed had a voice in his head that was actually God telling him stuff. But for me, to accept this statement is a step too far. I can’t even bring myself to fake it; it goes against everything I have believed in since the age of 16.
The reason I got into this mess: I believed that love would be the overriding factor in relationship. I thought I was above being affected by religion. I believed that I could live quietly with my beliefs, whilst respecting the ones that my wife holds. I guess I was wrong.

Hi
- musivore
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #66 - March 23, 2011, 08:55 PM

Mr Teapot (it is Mr right?) thanks, that relaxed interpretation of Islam is worth looking into for me. And thanks for being nice.

Mufa9a – You’ve always been kind with your advice and time for me. You’re a lovely girl and I hope it stays safe for you in Saudi (if that’s where you are?). I don’t think my wife will ever be very religious, but she wants me to at least accept the minimum. She has many non-muslim friends, but she is a tough nut who will never get influenced by any of them. But I agree with you, you can’t blame people for following the religion that they are bought up in. How is your older brother coping with it all now?

Muddy – lol... Do you think I’ll end up in a police station, complete with bruises if I don’t concede soon?

Hassan – Its doesn’t hit the same dizzy heights as ‘Is this It’ . But I don’t that think anything anyone ever does will do that. It’s rewarding if you listen to it a few times, but I wanted the Strokes to blow me away again.. Do you want me to try to email you a copy at work tomorrow?

Hi
- muddy
- The Drama King
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #67 - March 23, 2011, 09:48 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 08:55 PM
Muddy – lol... Do you think I’ll end up in a police station, complete with bruises if I don’t concede soon?

I have absolutely no idea about capabilities of your wife. May be she is perfectly sane legitimately scared of Allah kind of human. But I do know one thing for sure, is you give up on things much easier then her. Most of the hardcore muslim dudes never really give up against their own strong feelings for their wife's will..

Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
Islam's Last Stand (page)
Islam's Last Stand (group)
and many others...
- muddy
- The Drama King
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #68 - March 23, 2011, 09:50 PM

Quote from: mufa9a on March 23, 2011, 08:31 PM
Yeah, Because a Muslim woman can't be strong willed

She can, but hardcore muslim guys would never let her dominate. But reasonable guys like musivore very easily give up. And he willing to accept the hardcore religion to please her.

Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
Islam's Last Stand (page)
Islam's Last Stand (group)
and many others...
- David
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #69 - March 23, 2011, 11:12 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 04:09 PM
I think it may be expressly forbidden in the Quran for a muslim to live with a non-believer and she kept hanging on to that point..

Might her brittle zealotry pass?

If it doesn't, you face a fairly depressing life. Alas.
- cosmicdancer
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #70 - March 23, 2011, 11:31 PM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 08:55 PM
Hassan – Its doesn’t hit the same dizzy heights as ‘Is this It’ . But I don’t that think anything anyone ever does will do that. It’s rewarding if you listen to it a few times, but I wanted the Strokes to blow me away again.. Do you want me to try to email you a copy at work tomorrow?

That's very kind, but I'll try and get to a music shop tmrw
- Blade Gunner
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #71 - March 23, 2011, 11:48 PM

Quote from: debunker on March 23, 2011, 08:49 PM
I think AbuYunus3 might add a lot to this thread... then again, perhaps he doesn't want to share his secret formula as to how he could keep both his marriage and beliefs (or lack thereof).

AbuYunus, if you're reading this, please show yourself!

I think I have resisted commenting on musivore's threads because I have the feeling that he knows his own situation better than the rest of us, he knows how much he loves his wife, he knows that he is bigger than letting something as petty as religious beleifs (from his own point of veiw at least) affect his marriage and family, and ultimately he knows it's not something he is going to leave his wife and child over. I think he's just here to share his story and chill with us.

I've personally never felt the need to discuss my marriage etc. - it's personal and I've never been one to share or talk too much about personal things. But my situation I guess is a little different to musivore's - I haven't told her I'm an ex-muslim but I know she strongly suspects. We've had a few discussions recently, and just to make sure, I asked her that if I became an ex-Muslim whether she would want a divorce etc. - she said no, and I already knew she would say no. For me that was all I needed. I've never since then felt the need to say to her I'm an ex-Muslim or that Allah doesn't exist etc. - it would serve no practical purpose except for upsetting her. I have however discussed with her many times regarding how religion itself is outdated and belongs in the past etc. - and I think she is starting to respect this position.

The children issue however is tricky but marriage can sometimes be about compromise - as long as it's within reason. My children might learn arabic Qur'an and how to pray etc. from my wife - but they'll also learn about non-religion from me. They will always know that they have a choice and in general my children will be encouraged to make their own choices from an early age as possible - not just about religion but with all things. Indeed, I have no more right to impose my beleifs on my children anymore than my wife has.

I have sympathy for musivore and his wife also actually. The fact that musivore loves her so much tells me that she must be a nice person. I don't think she's manipulative or insincere as some have stated. What people have to remember is that being Muslim is a total state of mind - it can cloud the mind and you can't see anything else. It so easily overcomes your judgement without you realising - it's actually quite astonishing and weird thinking back to when I was still Muslim not too long ago. But being Muslim doesn't make you a monster - although it can make you think in a weird way - hence the ultimatums from musivores wife.

Anyway good luck musivore

''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
- ateapotist
- Supermassive Black Hole
- Ex-Muslim
- Spaghettifier Extraordinaire
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #72 - March 24, 2011, 12:33 AM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 08:55 PM
Mr Teapot (it is Mr right?) thanks, that relaxed interpretation of Islam is worth looking into for me. And thanks for being nice.

Yes, it is a Mr.
I should say that I had a very all-or-nothing attitude when I was leaving Islam (it's only recently that I'm thinking you could still be a Muslim and be very progressive/liberal).
At the time, I felt the right thing to do is not even call myself a Muslim because that would be dishonest, and definitely not marry a Muslim. I even completely avoided leading the prayers. I have read on this forum that there are closet apostates who sometimes have to lead the prayers (LOL!!). I couldn't do it because that would be dishonest, I felt at the time. But now I think fuck that shit. Do what you like. Believe what you like. Call yourself a Muslim if you like. Instil doubts in the minds of others. It ain't immoral.

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

Baloney Detection Kit
- Ishina
- Militant Atheist
- Ex-Muslim
- No Fate But What We Make
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #73 - March 24, 2011, 12:38 AM

Quote from: abuyunus3 on March 23, 2011, 11:48 PM
What people have to remember is that being Muslim is a total state of mind - it can cloud the mind and you can't see anything else. It so easily overcomes your judgement without you realising - it's actually quite astonishing and weird thinking back to when I was still Muslim not too long ago. But being Muslim doesn't make you a monster - although it can make you think in a weird way - hence the ultimatums from musivores wife.

And we also have to remember that being a Muslim isn't a free pass to act that way.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
- Elifaz
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #74 - March 24, 2011, 12:55 AM

Quote from: ateapotist on March 24, 2011, 12:33 AM
But now I think fuck that shit. Do what you like. Believe what you like. Call yourself a Muslim if you like. Instil doubts in the minds of others. It ain't immoral.

What caused the change, ateapotist?
- L2PK
- function makeEpic(Post) { return Post.addMeme('COOL STORY BRO'); }
- Restricted
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #75 - March 24, 2011, 12:58 AM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on March 23, 2011, 04:26 PM
I'm going to repeat the question I asked of you 6 months ago. How will you face your son if he turns around one day and asks why you stood by and allowed him to be indoctrinated into/subject to Islam when you knew full well how ridiculous it was? I, for one, would probably hate my father had he done that. :/

+1

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
--
Previously donatelo
--
Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
- Saif Rahman
- Ex-Muslim
- Je suis Haram
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #76 - March 24, 2011, 01:16 AM

Hi Musivore - I dont know if things are as straightforward as those 3 options without knowing the complete situation. So no, I wouldnt advise divource from my laptop. And I would certainly not advise feigning musalmaanhood for the rest of your life, otherwise you would go insane.

Having said that change is certainly needed, and you need to be more assertive & drive direction as it your wife is & has been taking advantage out of your softness for too long.

My Book
My Blog
- L2PK
- function makeEpic(Post) { return Post.addMeme('COOL STORY BRO'); }
- Restricted
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #77 - March 24, 2011, 02:45 AM

If I were you I won't have married her in the first place. Or, I'd leave her, and fight for custody of the child. No question about it. You can't ruin your son's life and let him get indoctrinated just because you want steady sex or whatever from your wife. And you're not even getting that. Grow some balls.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
--
Previously donatelo
--
Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
- ateapotist
- Supermassive Black Hole
- Ex-Muslim
- Spaghettifier Extraordinaire
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #78 - March 24, 2011, 03:52 AM

Quote from: Eliphaz on March 24, 2011, 12:55 AM
What caused the change, ateapotist?

dunno. I guess I just realised it was a silly position to hold - through this forum and other humanist sites.
The reason why I no longer believe leading the prayers as an apostate is wrong is that since Allah doesn't exist their prayers are a waste of time anyway, so it doesn't matter if they have a Muslim leading them in prayer or a closet apostate. There is nothing immoral about that. The only danger is when they find out that you were a closet atheist leading them in prayer... hehe... you could be chased around town with pitchforks.
Another thing I've realised is that values are more important that beliefs. If someone is practically a secular humanist but believes in God (and keeps that belief to himself), I would count them as a friend. If someone is an atheist but does not respect science nor humanism, I cannot count them as a friend. Ultimately values are what matter, and we should remember the priorities.
I once said that religious people put their beliefs ahead of *real* relationships, and disown blood relatives simply for not believing in their God, and this was wrong. I think there is a danger that some atheists may make the same mistake by shunning people for not being atheists even though they share the same values.

"Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

Baloney Detection Kit
- debunker
- Pub Regular
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #79 - March 24, 2011, 05:51 AM

@ abu

Quote
But my situation I guess is a little different to musivore's - I haven't told her I'm an ex-muslim but I know she strongly suspects. We've had a few discussions recently, and just to make sure, I asked her that if I became an ex-Muslim whether she would want a divorce etc. - she said no, and I already knew she would say no. For me that was all I needed. I've never since then felt the need to say to her I'm an ex-Muslim or that Allah doesn't exist etc. - it would serve no practical purpose except for upsetting her. I have however discussed with her many times regarding how religion itself is outdated and belongs in the past etc. - and I think she is starting to respect this position.

your situation is indeed different. in your case, your wife does NOT want to know that you're an atheist... i guess it's enough for her if you just lied to her and told her that you're technically a Muslim (belive in God and Muhammed's prophethood).

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
- z10
- Pub Regular
- Imago Dei
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #80 - March 24, 2011, 06:18 AM

Quote from: L2PK on March 24, 2011, 02:45 AM
If I were you I won't have married her in the first place. Or, I'd leave her, and fight for custody of the child. No question about it. You can't ruin your son's life and let him get indoctrinated just because you want steady sex or whatever from your wife. And you're not even getting that. Grow some balls.

How did you manage to equate love with steady sex? There's no need to be so rude.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
- TheRationalizer
- Pub Regular
- Gone - due to unfair moderation
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #81 - March 24, 2011, 08:53 AM

Quote from: musivore on March 23, 2011, 08:52 PM
Mr Rational – I’m guilty as charged. But you already know that. You speak many harsh truths. But they are truths nonetheless. However, despite that, I can’t see myself changing, ever.

The way I see it is that in the extreme you have 2 options

Option 1: Pretend to be a Muslim, be miserable for the rest of your life.
Option 3: Leave her, be miserable for an unknown period of time but probably not the rest of your life.

I would guess that like my brother you just don't like making decisions. The thing is, deciding to do nothing *IS* making a decision.

The option which sits in the middle is

Option 2: Accept that you are more likely to take option 3 than option 1. Accept that your marriage is already over. Then with that new strength of accepting reality tell her straight "I have already let you butcher my son's penis in the name of something I do not believe in. I am not a Muslim, I can never believe it. Accept it or we are through."

You want her, but you don't need her.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- L2PK
- function makeEpic(Post) { return Post.addMeme('COOL STORY BRO'); }
- Restricted
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #82 - March 24, 2011, 08:53 AM

All right, sorry if I came off rude. Most married guys who do everything their wives say do it for the steady sex, that's just been my observation.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
--
Previously donatelo
--
Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
- zomzom
- ᵀᴴᴱ'ᴼᴿᴵᴳᴵᴻᴬᴸ
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #83 - March 24, 2011, 09:04 AM

Quote from: L2PK on March 24, 2011, 02:45 AM
If I were you I won't have married her in the first place. Or, I'd leave her, and fight for custody of the child. No question about it. You can't ruin your son's life and let him get indoctrinated just because you want steady sex or whatever from your wife. And you're not even getting that. Grow some balls.

You're sounding like a 17 year old something, do you have any ideas about 'love' and 'married life' no I don't think so, so you're the least credible person to advise on this aspect. I think you should grow up.

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
- arX
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #84 - March 24, 2011, 09:20 AM

Quote from: King Tut on March 23, 2011, 03:22 PM
I am a extentaionalist

:/

How did you manage to fuck that one up so bad?

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.

-- Kenneth Rexroth
- musivore
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #85 - March 24, 2011, 09:22 AM

David - I think it will last unfortunately.. why don’t you start an introduction thread for yourself? It would help people to get to know you a bit and to say hi?

Abuyunus – I agree with everything you’ve written. I’m glad you decided to comment on this thread. You seem particularly perceptive and sane and I will look out for your posts from now on.

Islame – how are you young man? I’ve missed you like a Muslim would miss his beloved Sheikh. I hope you are well and that you are continuing to do the devil’s good work with as much fervour as before?
Some of the pointers you gave me last time I was here really helped me in the talks I’ve been forced into taking with my wife. In particular, pointing to humanism helped to deflect accusations of me potentially being an uncaring, immoral anarchist because I don’t follow a religious code.

Rationalizer – I really ought to listen to your advice. But it hurts to even read your rationalising, let alone to consider acting upon it.

Hi
- zomzom
- ᵀᴴᴱ'ᴼᴿᴵᴳᴵᴻᴬᴸ
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #86 - March 24, 2011, 09:25 AM

Quote from: arX on March 24, 2011, 09:20 AM
:/

How did you manage to fuck that one up so bad?

Here then Existentialist*

Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
- TheRationalizer
- Pub Regular
- Gone - due to unfair moderation
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #87 - March 24, 2011, 09:36 AM

Quote from: musivore on March 24, 2011, 09:22 AM
Rationalizer – I really ought to listen to your advice. But it hurts to even read your rationalising, let alone to consider acting upon it.

Let me share something which seems irrelevant from the film "Band of Brothers" which helped me to get over my fear of hell. It's a film about US soldiers during world war 2. There's this one guy who just seems completely fearless during military operations. He is asked how come he is so fearless, his (paraphrased) reply was.

"You have fear because you don't want to die. We are ALL going to die in this war. The trick is to accept that you are already dead, it just hasn't happened yet"

It's the same for your situation. The damage has already happened, the misery has already been introduced into your life, it's too late. So now it's time to stop being scared of the consequences, accept them, and go out in a blaze of glory looking like a fucking ace WWII hero!

(Film spoiler, read it backwards........eid ton seod retcarahc ehT)

The best advice I can give if you wish to stay with her but NOT do this shit is as follows. Make sure that she knows 2 things

1: You are strong enough to leave her and find someone else
2: But you love her very much and would prefer not to have to

That way you can show her you are strong without having to leave her. You have accepted her, it is time for her to accept you. If she has to change you to make you into what she wants then you are not what she wants.

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
- musivore
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #88 - March 24, 2011, 09:48 AM

That's inspriational stuff Rationalizer. It makes me want to stand tall and let the man out from deep within me. Whether these feelings will last by the time I get home and see her pretty little face again, is another matter entirely.

Hi
- TheRationalizer
- Pub Regular
- Gone - due to unfair moderation
- offline
Re: Help me return to Islam
Reply #89 - March 24, 2011, 09:51 AM

Just keep telling yourself those same four words

I AM ALREADY DEAD!

I don't come here any more due to unfair moderation.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=30785
Previous page 1 2 34 5 ... 9 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »