Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale

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- Ishina
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #60 - March 27, 2011, 11:42 AM

I just wanted to post in a shit thread.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #61 - March 27, 2011, 12:00 PM

shit? -I disagree - I believe that womens rights aren't established well enough.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #62 - March 27, 2011, 12:15 PM

No, you believe the twisted, convoluted and blatantly inferior Islam Brand™ of womens rights are not established well enough.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #63 - March 27, 2011, 12:19 PM

You don't appear to be as open-minded as some other posters here so i'll end the discussion with you by saying that ill-treatment to women in the world including in places such as Afghanistan are in spite of Islam and not because of it.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #64 - March 27, 2011, 12:22 PM

Yeah, that's how you rationalise criticism away, “people are not disagreeing with me because my argument is flawed, people are disagreeing with me because they are closed-minded.”

Much easier to deal with, huh.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #65 - March 27, 2011, 12:23 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 10:24 AM
The caliphates

The tribal process of electing a caliph doesn't quite compare to the process of voting in the modern democratic sense. Caliphs were not elected by conducting national elections.

I think it only took 6 people (all men btw) to "elect" Uthman as caliph.

Soon you'll be saying that Islam "gave" women the "right to vote" because they had a say in what to cook in the evening for supper.

.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #66 - March 27, 2011, 12:23 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 10:24 AM
The caliphates

But was that really the case? Women suffrage is a relatively recent phenomena - as far as 'Islamic' world is concerned it dates back to early 20th century at best while some countries such as the stronghold of Sunni Islam of KSA still have no women's suffrage.

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 12:00 PM
shit? -I disagree - I believe that womens rights aren't established well enough.

If by 'women's rights you mean true equality, emancipation, etc then I think that you are arguing about something you consider to be truth but which has no basis in facts. Unless you consider the historical context of the 7th century Arabia. At any rate such societal norms have been surpassed by norms that are vastly superior to anything such Islam has to offer.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #67 - March 27, 2011, 12:31 PM

Quote from: Shahid Raza on March 27, 2011, 12:23 PM
The tribal process of electing a caliph doesn't quite compare to the process of voting in the modern democratic sense. Caliphs were not elected by the conducting national elections.

I think it only took 6 people (all men btw) to "elect" Uthman as caliph.

Soon you'll be saying that Islam "gave" women the "right to vote" because they had a say in what to cook in the evening for supper.

Im sorry thats incorrect.

IV. POLITICAL RIGHTS
A right given to Muslim women by God 1400 years ago is the right to vote. On any public matter, a woman may voice her opinion and participate in politics. One example, narrated in the Qur'an (60:12), is that Muhammad (pbuh) is told that when the believing women come to him and swear their allegiance to Islam, he must accept their oath. This established the right of women to select their leader and publicly declare so. Finally, Islam does not forbid a woman from holding important positions in government. Abdur-Rahman Ibn Auf consulted many women before he recommended Uthman Ibn Affan to be the Caliph.

It wasnt a tally chart per se but it was the best democratic rights for women until recently acknowledged.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #68 - March 27, 2011, 12:36 PM

Women already vote in Britain. What do we need Islam for?

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #69 - March 27, 2011, 12:36 PM

The B_cake writes
Quote
One example, narrated in the Qur'an (60:12), is that Muhammad (pbuh) is told that when the believing women come to him and swear their allegiance to Islam, he must accept their oath.

what are you writing Blue Cake?? Didn't you know that Quran narration is from Allah not from Porphet of Islam??

Quote from: Ishina on March 27, 2011, 12:36 PM
Women already vote in Britain. What do we need Islam for?

You didn't know that? that is for implementing Sharia law so, ishina's and blue cake's can have a husband and share him with three more wives..

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #70 - March 27, 2011, 12:38 PM

Quote from: Kenan on March 27, 2011, 12:23 PM
But was that really the case? Women suffrage is a relatively recent phenomena - as far as 'Islamic' world is concerned it dates back to early 20th century at best while some countries such as the stronghold of Sunni Islam of KSA still have no women's suffrage.
If by 'women's rights you mean true equality, emancipation, etc then I think that you are arguing about something you consider to be truth but which has no basis in facts. Unless you consider the historical context of the 7th century Arabia. At any rate such societal norms have been surpassed by norms that are vastly superior to anything such Islam has to offer.

Like I said in recent times the ill-treatment to women isnt justified in islam and so what they do is in spite of islam and not because of it.
As for your second point regarding true rights in islam , we believe god created man and woman differently but equally. You may argue that the different roles and rights over the other in different aspects gender doesnt constitute to equality but I disagree.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #71 - March 27, 2011, 12:40 PM

Quote from: Ishina on March 27, 2011, 12:36 PM
Women already vote in Britain. What do we need Islam for?

I agree (thankfully). But where my opinion differs is that I believe my religion contains the truths.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #72 - March 27, 2011, 12:40 PM

And if that was the case, why don't Islamic countries let women speak in government?

Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #73 - March 27, 2011, 12:43 PM

I think you will find that even in the illest of countries that claim to base all their laws from islam : even Afghanistan have women in high political powers - unfortunately as the men are the majority the few women dont really have a voice.

Pakistan - Behnezir Bhutto (my star) (x-president) - unfortunately she was assasinated.

If only they followed the teachings of the last prophet pbuh.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #74 - March 27, 2011, 12:44 PM

Blue Cake says
Quote
Like I said in recent times the ill-treatment to women isnt justified in islam and so what they do is in spite of islam and not because of it.

As for your second point regarding true rights in islam , we believe god created man and woman differently but equally. You may argue that the different roles and rights over the other in different aspects gender doesnt constitute to equality but I disagree.

Blue cake is right

All these Preachers who read scriptures of Islam is the proof of that..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0dmS3Xsce8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl8g8S6F3do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9cAa6SP79M

Do you Drive in England dear Blue Cake?

STOP DRIVING..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
- pierced_beauty
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #75 - March 27, 2011, 12:46 PM

How about being beaten? Would you allow your husband to beat you?

Quote from: Mount A Bison on September 26, 2010, 03:19 PM
Is your grammar defective? Just askin'.

"The wound is the place where the Light enters you." - Rumi
- bluecake
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #76 - March 27, 2011, 12:47 PM

where does it say in islam that women cant drive unfortunately the few leaders of Saudi Arabia are a bit extreme.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #77 - March 27, 2011, 12:47 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 12:43 PM
I think you will find that even in the illest of countries that claim to base all their laws from islam : even Afghanistan have women in high political powers - unfortunately as the men are the majority the few women dont really have a voice.

Pakistan - Behnezir Bhutto (my star) (x-president) - unfortunately she was assasinated.

If only they followed the teachings of the last prophet pbuh.

Boy you sound funny to me bluecake., I realized that early but I didn't know YOUR STAR is Benazir Bhutto. Yes She was smart lady married a STUPIDEST guy. Good Muslim woman..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #78 - March 27, 2011, 12:48 PM

Quote from: pierced_beauty on March 27, 2011, 12:46 PM
How about being beaten? Would you allow your husband to beat you?

(sigh). Quick answer: no . Look at the discussion between me and Hassan earlier in this thread.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #79 - March 27, 2011, 12:49 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 12:40 PM
I agree (thankfully). But where my opinion differs is that I believe my religion contains the truths.

Which of these two statements do you agree with:

1) Men and women are equal.

2) Men and women are equal (but men are a degree above).

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #80 - March 27, 2011, 12:50 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 12:38 PM
Like I said in recent times the ill-treatment to women isnt justified in islam and so what they do is in spite of islam and not because of it.

Misogynistic attitudes are prevalent in mainstream Islam and historically that has always been the case. You might argue that this was done in spite of Islam and not because of it but if you really are a hipster who genuinely thinks that mainstream Islam is all fluffy and nice what exactly are you trying to accomplish here?

Shouldn't you be arguing over at ummah.com trying to persuade Salafis, Wahhabis etc that they are misinterpreting the noble message of Islam and turning it into sadistic totalitarianism?
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #81 - March 27, 2011, 12:50 PM

lol - its referring to physical strength. Read the whole of the paragraph before even cutting out bitesize bits.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #82 - March 27, 2011, 12:52 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 12:47 PM
where does it say in islam that women cant drive unfortunately the few leaders of Saudi Arabia are a bit extreme.

well you are right,, 1400 years back we didn't had cars so it is not mentioned in Quran.

So bluecake did you read Quran ?

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #83 - March 27, 2011, 12:54 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 12:50 PM
lol - its referring to physical strength. Read the whole of the paragraph before even cutting out bitesize bits.

Don't play stupid. Which of these two statements do you agree with:

1) Women shall have equal rights to men.

2) Women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #84 - March 27, 2011, 12:55 PM

I have to go for now. I will be back tommorow or this evening. Please continue to make posts as long as they are relevant and not just random bashing of islam

See you later

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #85 - March 27, 2011, 12:58 PM

Heh.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #86 - March 27, 2011, 01:03 PM

Quote from: Ishina on March 27, 2011, 12:54 PM
Don't play stupid. Which of these two statements do you agree with:

1) Women shall have equal rights to men.

2) Women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them.

Lol before I go - read the whole paragraph. Women and men are equal. In this part it is reffering to men's degree of physical strentgh advantage to secure the house and protect his wife and children.

If you're still being so ignorant read the quotes earlier I posted including the last prophets sermon. Also if you look at other quotes like:

"O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and Allah knew best what she brought forth- "And no wise is the male Like the female I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."

Here you wouldnt equally argue that this quote is saying women are smarter than men - it is referring specifically to certain attributes of women that would help her for e.g. her role in the prophecy (jesus etc.) as a woman she is better adept to the situations sfor examplehe will face that men would otherwise not beable to - you have to read with an open mind

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #87 - March 27, 2011, 01:16 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 01:03 PM
Lol before I go - read the whole paragraph. Women and men are equal. In this part it is reffering to men's degree of physical strentgh advantage to secure the house and protect his wife and children.

I'm not asking for your interpretation-of-the-week. It's a simple question. Are you capable of answering a simple question without panicking and making excuses?

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 01:03 PM
"O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!"- and Allah knew best what she brought forth- "And no wise is the male Like the female I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected."

Nowhere in that quote does it clarify or even touch upon any equality issues. Why did you post it?

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 01:03 PM
Here you wouldnt equally argue that this quote is saying women are smarter than men - it is referring specifically to her role in the prophecy (jesus etc.) as a woman she is better adept to the situations she will face that men would otherwise not beable to - you have to read with an open mind

Your Prophet was pretty clear on how smart he thought women were:

Bukhari, Book 6, Number 301:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

How open does my mind need to be to swallow that one?

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #88 - March 27, 2011, 01:19 PM

Quote from: Shahid Raza on March 27, 2011, 10:13 AM
The right to vote? For what exactly? What did Islam give women the right to vote FOR???

Nothing, its just another piece of lying dawah that the likes of bluecake uses.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #89 - March 27, 2011, 01:20 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 12:48 PM
(sigh). Quick answer: no . Look at the discussion between me and Hassan earlier in this thread.

Which proved what?

That you have an emotional attachment to some bronze age bs and hence had to come up with a creative interpretation of it lest you admit that it really is what it claims to be.
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