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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale

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  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #90 - March 27, 2011, 01:22 PM

    Women already vote in Britain. What do we need Islam for?


    Ummm, for peace and happiness and submission and stuff.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #91 - March 27, 2011, 01:26 PM

    I'm not asking for your interpretation-of-the-week.   It's a simple question. Are you capable of answering  

    Bukhari, Book 6, Number 301:

    How open does my mind need to be to swallow that one?

     interpretation-of-the-week??  you mean we change the interpretation every week?? Damn you infidels

    But we don't like Bukhari.,  Bukhari book came way later.. so read Quran.. and read it fully., don't cut the verse in the middle., you guys use  tits and bits to criticize Allahprophetislam.

    Quote
    004.011: Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half; and as for his parents, each of them shall have the sixth of what he has left if he has a child, but if he has no child and (only) his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall have the third; but if he has brothers, then his mother shall have the sixth after (the payment of) a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt; your parents and your children, you know not which of them is the nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah: Surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.

    002.282 : O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things.

    002.228: And the divorced women should keep themselves in waiting for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they should conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the last day; and their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile if they wish for reconciliation; and they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner, and the men are a degree above them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    005.006: O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you are under an obligation to perform a total ablution, then wash (yourselves) and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith, Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.


    Indeed they are the words of Allah/God...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #92 - March 27, 2011, 01:27 PM

    I agree (thankfully). But where my opinion differs is that I believe my religion contains the truths.


    Islam doesn't contain anything original. It only contains a formula for its own self-regarding notions. It contains much backwardness, bigotry and irrationalism. As an organising principle for a society it is inferior to modern secular democracy, and it is catastrophic for free conscience, freedom of the individual, for women and non Muslims. As a spiritual path it is as banal as any other religion, and in certain traditions, violent and dangerous.

    Those are the only truths you need to understand.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #93 - March 27, 2011, 01:32 PM

    I'd be interested in your thoughts on this article, bluecake:

    Does Islam regard men and women as equal?

    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/1105/women

    Is there a mention of the equality of women in the qur'an?

    Praise be to Allaah. 
    Firstly:

    This word – equality – which many thinkers in both the east and the west advocate in various fields of life is a word which is based on deviation and a lack of understanding, especially when the speaker attributes this idea of equality to the Qur’aan and to Islam.

    One of the things that people misunderstand is when they say that “Islam is the religion of equality”. What they should say is that Islam is the religion of justice.

    Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    “Here we should note that there are some people who speak of equality instead of justice, and this is a mistake. We should not say equality, because equality implies no differentiation between the two. Because of this unjust call for equality, they started to ask, what is the difference between male and female?’ So they made males and females the same, and then the communists said, ‘What difference is there between ruler and subject? No one has any authority over anyone else, not even fathers and sons; the father has no authority over his son,’ and so on.

    But if we say justice, which means giving each one that to which he or she is entitled, this misunderstanding no longer applies, and the word used is correct. Hence it does not say in the Qur’aan that Allaah enjoins equality, rather it says (interpretation of the meaning):

     “Verily, Allaah enjoins Al‑‘Adl (i.e. justice)”

    [al-Nahl 16:90]

    “and that when you judge between men, you judge with justice”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:58]

    Those who say that Islam is the religion of equality are lying against Islam. Rather Islam is the religion of justice which means treating equally those who are equal and differentiating between those who are different.

    No one who knows the religion of Islam would say that it is the religion of equality.  Rather what shows you that this principle is false is the fact that most of what is mentioned in the Qur’aan denies equality, as in the following verses:

    ‘Say: Are those who know equal to those who know not?”

    [al-Zumar 39:9]

    ‘Say: Is the blind equal to the one who sees? Or darkness equal to light?’

    [al-Ra’d 13:16]

    ‘Not equal among you are those who spent and fought before the conquering (of Makkah, with those among you who did so later’

    [al-Hadeed 57:10]

    ‘Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allaah with their wealth and their live’

    [al-Nisa’ 4:95]

    Not one single letter in the Qur’aan enjoins equality, rather it enjoins justice. You will also find that the word justice is acceptable to people, for I feel that if I am better than this man in terms of knowledge, or wealth, or piety, or in doing good, I would not like for him to be equal to me.

    Every man knows that he find it unacceptable if we say that the male is equal to the female.”

    Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitah, 1/180-181

    Based on this, Islam does not regard men and women as equal in matters where regarding them as equal would result in injustice to one of them, because equality that is inappropriate is a severe form of injustice.

    The Qur’aan commands women to wear clothes that are different from those worn by men, because of the differences in the ways each sex is tempted by the other. The temptation posed by men is less than the temptation posed by women, so the clothes that women should wear are different than the clothes that men wear. It makes no sense to tell women to expose the parts of the body that men are allowed to expose, because of the differences in the temptation posed by a woman’s body and a man’s body – as we shall explain.

    Secondly:

    There are matters in which men and women are treated differently in Islamic sharee’ah, such as:

    1 – Qiwaamah (being in charge of the household)

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:34]

    Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    “Allaah says ‘Men are the protectors and maintainers of women’ meaning that the man is in charge of the woman, i.e., he is the leader and head of the household, the one who disciplines her if she goes astray.

    ‘because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other’ i.e., because men are superior to women and are  better than women. Hence Prophethood was given only to men, as was the position of khaleefah, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘No people shall ever prosper who appoint a woman as their ruler.’ This was narrated by al-Bukhaari from the hadeeth of ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Abi Bakrah from his father. The same applies to the position of qaadi (judge), etc.

    ‘and because they spend (to support them) from their means’ refers to the mahr and the spending on women’s maintenance that Allaah has enjoined upon men in His Book and in the Sunnah of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). So a man is inherently better than a woman, and he is superior to her because he spends on her. So it is appropriate that he should be in charge of her, as Allaah says, ‘but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them’ [al-Baqarah 2:228].

    ‘Ali ibn Abi Talhah said, narrating from Ibn ‘Abbaas: ‘Men are the protectors and maintainers of women’ means that men are the leaders of women and they should obey them in areas where Allaah has enjoined obedience. Obedience may mean treating his family kindly and protecting his wealth.”

    (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/490)

    2 – Testimony or bearing witness. The Qur’aan states that the testimony of one man is equivalent to the testimony of two women.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her”

    [al-Baqarah 2:282]

    Ibn Katheer said:

    Two women are to take the place of one man because women are lacking in reason, as Muslim narrated in his Saheeh… from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O women, give in charity and seek forgiveness a great deal, for I have seen that you form the majority of the people of Hell.” A wise woman among them said, “Why is it, O Messenger of Allaah, that we are the majority of the people of Hell?” He said, “Because you curse too much, and you are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you.” The woman asked: “O Messenger of Allaah, what is wrong with our common sense and our religion?” He said: “Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to that of one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense, and you spend some nights (and days) in which you do not offer prayer and in the month of Ramadan (during the days) you do not observe fast, that is a failing in religion.” 

    (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/336)

    There may be some women who are wiser than some men, but this is not the usual rule and such women are not in the majority. Sharee’ah is based on what is general and most common.

    The fact that women are lacking in reason does not mean that they are crazy, rather their reason is often overtaken by their emotions, and this happens to women more often than it happens to men. No one would deny this except one who is arrogant.

    3 – A woman inherits half of what a man inherits. 

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Allaah commands you as regards your children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females”

    [al-Nisa’ 4:11]

    Al-Qurtubi said:

    Because Allaah knows better than they do what is in their best interests, He made the division of inheritance based on differentiation, because He knows what is in their best interests.

    Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 5/164

    For example, a man is obliged to spend more than a woman, so it is appropriate that he should have a larger share of inheritance than a woman.

    4 – Clothing:

    A woman’s ‘awrah includes her entire body. The least that can be said is that she should not uncover anything except her face and hands, and it was said that she should not even uncover that.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allaah is Ever Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”

    [al-Ahzaab 33:59]

    The ‘awrah of a man is the area from the navel to the knees.

    It was said to ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ja’far ibn Abi Taalib, “Tell us what you heard from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and what you saw of him, and do not tell us about anyone else, even if he was trustworthy.” He said, “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘The area between the navel and the knee is ‘awrah.’”

    Narrated by al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak (6418); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 5583.

    Other examples include the following, which is not a comprehensive list.

    There are other differences between the sexes, including the following:

    ·        A man can marry four women, but a woman can only have one husband.

    ·        A man has the right to issue a divorce and it is valid if he does so, but a woman does not have the right to issue a divorce.

    ·        A man may marry a woman from among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), but a Muslim woman may not marry anyone but a Muslim.

    ·        A man may travel without his wife or any of his mahrams, but a woman may not travel unless she is accompanied by a mahram.

    ·        Prayer in the mosque is obligatory for men, but not for women; a woman’s prayer in her house is more beloved to Allaah.

    ·        A woman may wear silk and gold, but a man must not wear them.

    Everything that we have mentioned is based on the difference between men and women, because the male is not like the female. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And the male is not like the female”

    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:36]

    The male is different from the female in many ways, in his strength, in his body, in his toughness and roughness, whereas women are soft and gentle.

    And men are different in intellectual terms, for men are known for their strength of understanding and their memory as compared to women. Women are weaker than men in memory and forget more than men do. This is well known, for most of the reputable scholars in the world are men. There are some women who are more intelligent and have better memories than some men, but this does not cancel out the general rule. Most cases are as we have described above.

    With regard to emotions, men speak of them when they get angry or when they are happy, but women are affected by the slightest emotional effects, so their tears flow at the slightest emotional provocation. 

    Jihad is obligatory for men, but jihad in the sense of fighting is not obligatory for women. This is the mercy of Allaah towards them, and consideration for their nature.

    In conclusion we may say that the rulings for men are not like the rulings for women.

    Thirdly:

    Islam regards men and women as equally obliged with regard to many acts of worship and interactions with others. For example, women do wudoo’ just as men do, they do ghusl as men do, they pray as men do, and they fast as men do, except when they are menstruating or bleeding following childbirth. Women pay zakaah as men pay zakaah, and they do Hajj as men do, except for a few differences in the rulings. It is permissible and acceptable to buy from a woman, and if a woman gives charity, that is permissible. It is permissible for a woman to set free the slaves that she owns, and there are many other similar cases because women are the twin halves of men, as it says in the hadeeth:

    It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked about a man who finds some wetness (on his clothes) but did not have an erotic dream, and he said, “He should do ghusl.” He was asked about a man who had an erotic dream but did not find any wetness, and he said, “He does not have to do ghusl.” Umm Salamah said, “O Messenger of Allaah, if a woman sees that, does she have to do ghusl?” He said, “Yes, for women are the twin halves of men.”

    (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 113; Ahmad, 25663. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 98)

    Conclusion:

    Women are like men in some aspects and they differ from them in others. Most of the rulings of Islam apply to men and women equally. In cases where a distinction is made between the sexes, the Muslim regards that as a mercy from Allaah and a sign of His knowledge of His creation, but the arrogant kaafir sees it as oppression and injustice, so he stubbornly insists on claiming that men and women are the same. So let him tell us how a man can carry a foetus and breastfeed it?  He stubbornly ignores the weakness of women and how they bleed during their monthly period, and he stubbornly beat his head against the rock of reality. But the Muslim is still at peace with his faith, surrendering to the command of Allaah.

    “Should not He Who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves), All‑Aware (of everything)”

    [al-Mulk 67:14 – interpretation of the meaning]

     And Allaah knows best.


    Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #94 - March 27, 2011, 01:45 PM

    Perhaps we can all at least agree with Bluecakes comment that "we believe god created man and woman differently but equally"
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #95 - March 27, 2011, 02:00 PM

    Perhaps we can all at least agree with Bluecakes comment that "we believe god created man and woman differently but equally"

    Are you serious? Most people here are atheists and agnostics.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #96 - March 27, 2011, 02:14 PM

    .
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #97 - March 27, 2011, 02:20 PM

    No need to be obtuse kenan.  You are sounding like Suhail ibn Amr .  Perhaps then simply men and women are equal but different.  And if it is not too taxing for you one must also note that as a result of differences, rights and obligations may not be equal.  The only contradiction there (Hassan) would be that equality of the soul is an absolute but equal treatment in particulars is relative.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #98 - March 27, 2011, 02:22 PM

    For some reason I can't quote.

    @Ishina - to answer your bukhari quote you have to look into context much more as it is a hadith recorded at that time.
    One thing is that the last prophet was human and he said that in a light-hearted jokey way - in a similar way to this:

     'Three things are counted inadequacies in a man. Firstly, meeting someone he would like to get to know, and taking leave of him before learning his name and his family. Secondly, rebuffing the generosity that another shows to him. And thirdly, going to his wife and having intercourse with her before talking to her and gaining her intimacy, satisfying his need from her before she has satisfied her need from him." (Daylami)

    For more information : look at claim 7 on here http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/mistranslations_of_hadiths.htm


    @Hasan I dont follow the tafsirs from that website.

    I will be back later  Smiley

    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #99 - March 27, 2011, 02:23 PM

    Perhaps we can all at least agree with Bluecakes comment that "we believe god created man and woman differently but equally"

    It doesn't tell the whole story anyway. There are lots of conditions implicit with that statement that creep in the back door when you accept it at face value. What is left unsaid is the problematic part.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #100 - March 27, 2011, 02:24 PM

    Different but equal sounds like something that belongs in 1984. "The Ministry of Equality."   
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #101 - March 27, 2011, 02:25 PM

    It sounds like the Jim Crow laws.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #102 - March 27, 2011, 02:26 PM

    I think the quote below from the last prophet (pbuh) will answer your question.

    'O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you.'

    Yeah, the right to be a serf.

    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #103 - March 27, 2011, 02:26 PM



    Different but "equal" Smiley
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #104 - March 27, 2011, 02:29 PM

    Yes Ishana, you are correct simple truths require increasing complexity when applied in a real world.  Somehow it seems that black dog and cheetah et al bridle even at this simple truth.  I wonder why?
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #105 - March 27, 2011, 02:30 PM

    Perhaps we can all at least agree with Bluecakes comment that "we believe god created man and woman differently but equally"


    I would agree that men and women are different in many aspects, but how much these differences are a result of biology or socialization is open to debate.

    However I would never make hard and fast generalisations about these differences - not to mention making it a legal requirement that women are excluded from positions of authority (such president/prime minister, judge etc..) or that their testimony is half of a man's or allow husbands to 'correct' their wife by hitting tapping her with a tooth stick etc... on the basis of these generalisations.


  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #106 - March 27, 2011, 02:33 PM

    Yes Ishana, you are correct simple truths require increasing complexity when applied in a real world.  Somehow it seems that black dog and cheetah et al bridle even at this simple truth.  I wonder why?


    Grin yeah the logic of Islam is too much for my puny brain.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #107 - March 27, 2011, 02:33 PM

    Hassan I am glad that you don't feel confident to legislate on the basis of your own opinions.  My point was simply that they exist and as a result of their existence there are ramifications.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #108 - March 27, 2011, 02:34 PM

    Yeah, the right to be a serf.

    What are you talking about?

    The dhimmis lived happily in the captivity of Mr.PBUH and associates, says Islamic literature I've got here at my desk.

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #109 - March 27, 2011, 02:36 PM

    Yes Ishana, you are correct simple truths require increasing complexity when applied in a real world.  Somehow it seems that black dog and cheetah et al bridle even at this simple truth.  I wonder why?


    Hassan just expressed my point of view quite succinctly.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #110 - March 27, 2011, 02:37 PM

    Yes Ishana, you are correct simple truths require increasing complexity when applied in a real world.  Somehow it seems that black dog and cheetah et al bridle even at this simple truth.  I wonder why?

    I was just commenting on the loaded nature of such a statement when spoken from the mouth of a theist. I'm an atheist. I reject the statement outright.

    Just to clear up any confusion.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #111 - March 27, 2011, 02:40 PM

    Pardon!  Are you saying you reject the statement that men and women are different but equal?
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #112 - March 27, 2011, 02:41 PM

    @Hasan I dont follow the tafsirs from that website.


    I see, but you accept that a woman's testimony is half of a man's in Islamic Law and that women should never be placed in a high position of authority (such as president, judge etc...) and that some women may need some sort of physical correction (no matter how light) to bring them to their senses?

    I will be back later  Smiley


    Me too - have to collect my kids from my ex's house - laters Smiley
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #113 - March 27, 2011, 02:42 PM

    No need to be obtuse kenan.  You are sounding like Suhail ibn Amr .  Perhaps then simply men and women are equal but different.

    Ad-homs much?

    But am not being obtuse. The statement she and you proposed is full of unspoken contradiction and intrinsic totalitarian claims that I completely disagree with.

    And if it is not too taxing for you one must also note that as a result of differences, rights and obligations may not be equal.

    Ad-homs much again?

    Stay classy!

    What you stated above makes no difference when it comes to the issues I mentioned above.



  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #114 - March 27, 2011, 02:47 PM

    Keenan I wasn't making any totalitarian claims simply trying to define a common ground where we are in agreement.  It is such a simple notion that it puzzles me why it needs to be so clearly defined to gain common acceptance here.  I guess that is because of your experiences of Islam and a hostility that has developed to 'hidden agendas'.  Ishina for instance says "I'm an atheist. I reject the statement outright".
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #115 - March 27, 2011, 02:50 PM

    There should be no difference between the legal rights and responsibilities of two people, regardless of what personal differences exist between them.  That's why the statement that men and women are different but equal looks so trite and inane as to be barely worth discussing.  And that's also why people who keep pushing the statement as if it contains some timeless wisdom look as if they're promoting some other agenda.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #116 - March 27, 2011, 02:50 PM

    @ Hasan - again I cant seem to quote anybody Huh?

    To answer your three questions:
    1. The quote is reffering to financial transaction  only where it was often men who had made business deals etc. with other people and places. As the woman would not neccessarily be directly involved as a wife she would obviously witness something with the business deals but not as much as the men would.
    2. Where does it say that a woman can't be positioned at high authority
    3. I've already dealed with that verse in our earlier discussion - where everything I said I agreed with.

    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #117 - March 27, 2011, 02:50 PM

    Pardon!  Are you saying you reject the statement that men and women are different but equal?

    No. I reject the statement: "we believe god created man and woman differently but equally"

    See what I mean by things slip under the table if you're not careful?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #118 - March 27, 2011, 02:53 PM

    Can I ask ishina what made you believe that there was no god?

    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #119 - March 27, 2011, 02:54 PM

    Can I give you a copy-paste reply that I made earlier?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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