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 Topic: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale

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  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #120 - March 27, 2011, 02:57 PM
    Quote from: lightrays on March 27, 2011, 02:47 PM
    Ishina for instance says "I'm an atheist. I reject the statement outright".

    And that exactly, was the implication of my post.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #121 - March 27, 2011, 03:00 PM
    I am not sure what your point is Kenan you presumably don't reject the statment outright (given that God is not mentioned).  So please....just for clarity is there anyone who doesnt accept a simple truth that men and women are different but equal?
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #122 - March 27, 2011, 03:02 PM
    Everybody knows there are differences between the sexes, lightrays.  What are you going to tell us next, the sky is blue, the grass is green?  What point are you trying to make here?
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #123 - March 27, 2011, 03:06 PM
    Quote from: lightrays on March 27, 2011, 03:00 PM
    I am not sure what your point is Kenan you presumably don't reject the statment outright (given that God is not mentioned).  So please....just for clarity is there anyone who doesnt accept a simple truth that men and women are different but equal?

    How can I accept a self-contradicting statement?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #124 - March 27, 2011, 03:08 PM
    Thank you cheetah, no need for sarcasm though.  To find agreement is good.  Clearly our opinions divide after that.  But bear in mind it would be illogical to say that there are differences which will have ramifications for actions and therefore in some way determine rights and obligations.  That I would venture is also something we all still agree on.  The real divergence is thereafter.  I follow my beliefs and you yours.  I can live with that. 
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #125 - March 27, 2011, 03:08 PM
    Quote from: lightrays on March 27, 2011, 03:00 PM
    I am not sure what your point is Kenan you presumably don't reject the statment outright (given that God is not mentioned).  So please....just for clarity is there anyone who doesnt accept a simple truth that men and women are different but equal?

    God was specifically mentioned in the first post.

    As far as "a simple truth that men and women are different but equal" is concerned the issue here is that such a statement groups men and women into separate groups based solely on the fact that they happen to be of different sexes. Which is far too simplistic. Everybody is different (as far as their physical appearance and intellectual capabilities are concerned for example) but equal in their rights and responsibilities regardless of their sex.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #126 - March 27, 2011, 03:08 PM
    Tell me of a woman who doesn't like her man to squeeze or slap her butt cheeks? Or get angry and show temper and get slightly physical on her? Sparks in the kitchen can ignite fireworks in the bedroom. 001_wub
    Fake friends flatter you. Their compliments are made up. Nasty enemies criticize you harshly. They pick on you unnecessarily. Neither of them help you improve yourself. The best critic is honest and knows you exactly and the best person you can choose to follow is someone closest to you.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #127 - March 27, 2011, 03:10 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on March 27, 2011, 03:06 PM
    How can I accept a self-contradicting statement?


    What do you mean?  As cheetah says  "Everybody knows there are differences between the sexes"  what part of the statment contradicts the other?
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #128 - March 27, 2011, 03:13 PM
    lightrays, assalamoalaikum. How are you brother/sister?
    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #129 - March 27, 2011, 03:20 PM
    Quote from: lightrays on March 27, 2011, 03:10 PM
    What do you mean?  As cheetah says  "Everybody knows there are differences between the sexes"  what part of the statment contradicts the other?

    Well, you tell me. How can something be different and equal? What do you mean by different and equal?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #130 - March 27, 2011, 03:37 PM
    I am increasingly convinced that gender is not binary but a spectrum.

    It would be interesting to study the cognitive abilities of these women allegedly converting en masse to Islam. It's safe to say that there are no Nobel laureates that wake up one day and decide to become Muslims.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #131 - March 27, 2011, 03:42 PM
    Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 12:43 PM
    I think you will find that even in the illest of countries that claim to base all their laws from islam : even Afghanistan have women in high political powers - unfortunately as the men are the majority the few women dont really have a voice.

    Pakistan - Behnezir Bhutto (my star) (x-president) - unfortunately she was assasinated.

    If only they followed the teachings of the last prophet pbuh.

    Lol, do you think Bhutto was an ordinary woman who was able to rise to the ranks? No, she already had it given to her, she was the daughter of zulfiqar ali bhutto who was the leader of PPP, and after his death she just had to take control of the party which was already there.

    FYI do you know that in Pakistan, a woman who is raped needs to provide 3  4 witnesses or it is considered adultery and she is flogged if unmarried, stoned to death if married?  This is because of Islamic law in Pakistan, not in spite of it.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #132 - March 27, 2011, 03:47 PM
    then you should have no problem giving me the textual evidence from the Quran or hadith in order to justify that it is based on islamic law.
    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #133 - March 27, 2011, 03:49 PM
    .
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #134 - March 27, 2011, 03:56 PM
    Quote from: raison on March 27, 2011, 03:37 PM
    I am increasingly convinced that gender is not binary but a spectrum.

    By "gender" do you mean gender identity and also sexuality?

    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 27, 2011, 03:49 PM
    ^ Have you been stunned into silence by my revelation or are you just playing hard to get my lovely?

    ^This

    I would very much like to see your response to what MAB has written.

  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #135 - March 27, 2011, 03:59 PM
    Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 03:47 PM
    then you should have no problem giving me the textual evidence from the Quran or hadith in order to justify that it is based on islamic law.

    Since the quran or hadith don't prescribe any punishments specific to rape (rather a big thing for god to leave out, don't you think?) the following hadiths and verses of the quran related to adultery are used to prescribe rape punishments according to sharia law in Pakistan:

    024.002
    PICKTHAL: The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.

    024.013
    PICKTHAL: Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they produce not witnesses, they verily are liars in the sight of Allah

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 818:
    Sahih Bukhari Narrated Zaid bin Khalid Al-Jihani:

    I heard the Prophet ordering that an unmarried person guilty of illegal sexual intercourse be flogged one-hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. Umar bin Al-Khattab also exiled such a person, and this tradition is still valid.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 819:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    Allah's Apostle judged that the unmarried person who was guilty of illegal sexual intercourse be exiled for one year and receive the legal punishment (i.e., be flogged with one-hundred stripes) .

    Can you show anything that this punishment is contradictory to sharia law?
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #136 - March 27, 2011, 04:04 PM
    .
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #137 - March 27, 2011, 04:12 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 27, 2011, 03:49 PM
    ^ Have you been stunned into silence by my revelation or are you just playing hard to get my lovely?


    Can you stop that sweet talk please.

    Im not going to quote everything you said.
    - Firstly Abu Bhakar wasn't a prophet or a saint - theres nothing which endorses what he did - whilst numerous quotes prohibit beating.

    - your second one is too long for me to explain - look on claim 1 : both parts of it http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/mistranslations_of_hadiths.htm

     - the last one doesnt endorse wife beating at all - in fact its more like a happy slap (just not on the face) - and theres a message that it conveys amongst the light-hearted quote.
    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #138 - March 27, 2011, 04:16 PM
    Quote from: L2PK on March 27, 2011, 03:59 PM
    Since the quran or hadith don't prescribe any punishments specific to rape (rather a big thing for god to leave out, don't you think?) the following hadiths and verses of the quran related to adultery are used to prescribe rape punishments according to sharia law in Pakistan:

    024.002
    PICKTHAL: The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.

    024.013
    PICKTHAL: Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they produce not witnesses, they verily are liars in the sight of Allah

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 818:
    Sahih Bukhari Narrated Zaid bin Khalid Al-Jihani:

    I heard the Prophet ordering that an unmarried person guilty of illegal sexual intercourse be flogged one-hundred stripes and be exiled for one year. Umar bin Al-Khattab also exiled such a person, and this tradition is still valid.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 819:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    Allah's Apostle judged that the unmarried person who was guilty of illegal sexual intercourse be exiled for one year and receive the legal punishment (i.e., be flogged with one-hundred stripes) .

    Can you show anything that this punishment is contradictory to sharia law?


    im not questioning the punishment but im questioning how you made that sudden jump between a woman pretending to be raped being accused of adultery.
    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #139 - March 27, 2011, 04:17 PM
    ^ Happy slap? You disgust me.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #140 - March 27, 2011, 04:18 PM
    A slap on the neck of a defenseless woman is never a happy slap.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #141 - March 27, 2011, 04:18 PM
    please leave all questions relevant and justified with quotes and I will be back tommorow - I have done no work whatsoever today  Cry

    See you people and may the peace and blessings of allah be with you all
    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #142 - March 27, 2011, 04:19 PM
    Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 04:16 PM
    im not questioning the punishment but im questioning how you made that sudden jump between a woman pretending to be raped being accused of adultery.

    Because if no 4 witnesses, then it can't be proven rape, but its proven that they had sex, hence its treated as fornication/adultery. If there had been any specific punishments laid out for rape, they wouldn't have to resort to this.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #143 - March 27, 2011, 04:21 PM
    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 27, 2011, 04:04 PM
    All the girls know this, so why don't you?

    But I do. Remember our exchange in the vegetarian thread?

    Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 27, 2011, 04:04 PM
    That's a novel concept. Are you confused about your gender my sweet? Just look down. If it's a dangling extra finger you're one of us, if it's something else buy a new wardrobe.

    Like this?



    Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 01:03 PM
    Lol before I go - read the whole paragraph. Women and men are equal. In this part it is reffering to men's degree of physical strentgh advantage to secure the house and protect his wife and children

    Fact is not all men are physically stronger when compared to women. Therefore this cannot be a universally acknowledged truth.

  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #144 - March 27, 2011, 04:23 PM
    Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 04:18 PM
    See you people and may the peace and blessings of allah be with you all

    See you! May the peace and blessings of Lucifer Morningstar and Raptor Jesus be with you.
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #145 - March 27, 2011, 04:34 PM
    Quote from: L2PK on March 27, 2011, 04:19 PM
    Because if no 4 witnesses, then it can't be proven rape, but its proven that they had sex, hence its treated as fornication/adultery. If there had been any specific punishments laid out for rape, they wouldn't have to resort to this.


    Sorry you made a slight error - the verse isnt about rape but its about requiring 4 witnesses to accuse a woman of adultery:

    Let us look at verse 24:4 "And those who launch A charge against chaste women, And produce not four witnesses (To support their allegations) Flog them with eighty stripes; And reject their evidence Ever after:  for such men Are wicked transgressors.  Unless they repent thereafter And mend (their conduct); For Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful."

     Here we see in this Holy Verse how much Allah Almighty cares about not criticizing women unless we are absolutely sure about it and we can provide at least 4 witnesses to support our allegation.


    So WHERE is the justification of needing 4 witnesses to accuse a man of rape???
    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #146 - March 27, 2011, 04:39 PM
    I am aware of that, but you seem to be ignoring my point on purpose.

    1) There are NO rape punishments mentioned in the quran or hadith anywhere, nor is any procedure mentioned for what to be done in case of rape. To any unbiased party its clear that this is because rape wasn't considered a punishable offence in the time of Mohammed, rather it was sanctioned such as by making slaves out of women captured in war, etc.

    2) Since no rape punishment/procedure is mentioned, the beardos making the sharia laws get as close to it as possible by applying the '4 witness' standard to rape and treating it as adultery if those witnesses are found. That's the closest islamic law they can create for rape out of the hadith & quran.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L2pk
    --
    Previously donatelo
    --
    Watch Ishina lie and then try to squirm her way out of it like a worm
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #147 - March 27, 2011, 04:40 PM
    Quote from: bluecake on March 26, 2011, 09:53 PM
    Assalamuallaikum everyone - may the peace and blessings of Allah be with you all.

    Many women especially in places like America who have felt oppressed their whole lives are entering islam in big numbers.
    Likewise in america, a quarter of muslims are converts to islam. These surge in numbers are because people are hearing criticism of islam from the media and news and subsequently go to research the 'true islam' themselves. In particualt many women have found that Islam gave unprecedented rights to women including the right to vote - something which is not too long ago in our modern time - more importantly that islam teaches that men and women have equal rights.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppxHW5KGJ94

    Alhumdolilah. yes


    Blimey, so she did it out of standing up for Muslims who people were pointing the finger at?
    Hard to rationalize the irrational - better to just accept it and move on.

    Wonder how she feels wearing the full burka - has she tried it?
    Hear ye -->> DONATE TO CEMB

    Relativism | Cognitive dissonance | Cognitive biases | Memeplex | Consequentialism
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #148 - March 27, 2011, 04:41 PM
    Bluecake - I'd like to know your reasons for being a Muslim. Smiley

    And also, do you accept evolution?
  • Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
     Reply #149 - March 27, 2011, 04:46 PM
    Quote from: L2PK on March 27, 2011, 04:39 PM
    I am aware of that, but you seem to be ignoring my point on purpose.

    1) There are NO rape punishments mentioned in the quran or hadith anywhere, nor is any punishment mentioned for what to be done in case of rape. To any unbiased party its clear that this is because rape wasn't considered a punishable offence in the time of Mohammed, rather it was sanctioned such as by making slaves out of women captured in war, etc.

    2) Since no rape punishment/procedure is mentioned, the beardos making the sharia laws get as close to it as possible by applying the '4 witness' standard to rape and treating it as adultery if those witnesses are found. That's the closest islamic law they can create for rape out of the hadith & quran.


    If you were aware of that then your claim was baseless. Aanyway the punishment for rape is clear: immediate death

    "When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her.  She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

    She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).  When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

    He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you.  And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

    Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    "That is surely true, it is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth."
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