Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #330 - March 28, 2011, 03:03 AM

I will say it again: whatever. The simple idea that Islam that uplifts women simply is not the rule. People can repeat it all they want but those who have lived it know better. I repeated the same pathetic slogans and actually believed them myself-until I experienced the consequences first hand. And I am far from alone in that experience.

Quote from: billy on February 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
"And lo, verily hath they spoken, not one of this tribe, upon whom these entreaties were beseeched for the Lord, could giveth a shit."

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #331 - March 28, 2011, 03:16 AM

I was responding to your specific claim that women can't get a divorce, as the fact is they can, even if they had absolutely no reason for it. And *whatever*, doesn't count as a response, not that I'm asking you for one.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #332 - March 28, 2011, 03:16 AM

I am completely with conwaytwitty on the women's issues, debunker. Listen, to someone with experience, you may learn something. What are you comparing muslim women's status with when you claim they are respected in Islam? True story: I had a dog whom I loved and respected. Occasionally kicked it to teach a lesson.

Btw, the only reason I'm posting on a thread with a failed name, that apparently doesn't bother many, is complete boredom!

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #333 - March 28, 2011, 03:18 AM

Quote
I am completely with conwaytwitty on the women's issues, debunker. Listen, to someone with experience, you may learn something. What are you comparing muslim women's status with when you claim they are respected in Islam? True story: I had a dog whom I loved and respected. Occasionally kicked it to teach a lesson.

Btw, the only reason I'm posting on a thread with a failed name, that apparently doesn't bother many, is complete boredom!

check out my last post, just before yours.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #334 - March 28, 2011, 03:24 AM

It's called technicalities, debunker. They are interesting sometimes. I think lawyers invented them. But there are instances when you may be right on some particular, but it doesn't change the overall point that was the issue of the debate. So forgive me, but I don't care who is right on that particular question, Islam is still bad for women. (Not that I can think who it is good for, but that's another conversation)

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #335 - March 28, 2011, 03:29 AM

Quote from: debunker on March 28, 2011, 03:16 AM
I was responding to your specific claim that women can't get a divorce, as the fact is they can, even if they had absolutely no reason for it. And *whatever*, doesn't count as a response, not that I'm asking you for one.

Debunker my Muslim husband would not give me a divorce, nor would did my wali or imam do anything to help me get one under sharia. Had I continued observing Islam I would have been stuck and bound to this man, as is the case for a number of women I met. So AGAIN: the reality of what women and experience and the "rights" we are supposed to have in theory in Islam are not always one and the same. I am well aware that some Muslim women are truly respected by the men in their lives but that it not the case across the board. And that is what I find so frustrating in discussing these issues with people who think like you and the OP. The reality is completely disregarded.

Quote from: billy on February 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
"And lo, verily hath they spoken, not one of this tribe, upon whom these entreaties were beseeched for the Lord, could giveth a shit."

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #336 - March 28, 2011, 03:30 AM

Quote
It's called technicalities, debunker. They are interesting sometimes. I think lawyers invented them. But there are instances when you may be right on some particular, but it doesn't change the overall point that was the issue of the debate. So forgive me, but I don't care who is right on that particular question, Islam is still bad for women. (Not that I can think who it is good for, but that's another conversation)

yes, i concur that Islam does belittle women.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #337 - March 28, 2011, 03:32 AM

Quote
Debunker my Muslim husband would not give me a divorce, nor would did my wali or imam do anything to help me get one under sharia. Had I continued observing Islam I would have been stuck and bound to this man, as is the case for a number of women I met. So AGAIN: the reality of what women and experience and the "rights" we are supposed to have in theory in Islam are not always one and the same. I am well aware that some Muslim women are truly respected by the men in their lives but that it not the case across the board. And that is what I find so frustrating in discussing these issues with people who think like you and the OP. The reality is completely disregarded.

now, i'm curious, aren't you living in the US? How can any law, other than US law, apply to you?

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #338 - March 28, 2011, 03:34 AM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on March 28, 2011, 03:24 AM
It's called technicalities, debunker. They are interesting sometimes. I think lawyers invented them. But there are instances when you may be right on some particular, but it doesn't change the overall point that was the issue of the debate. So forgive me, but I don't care who is right on that particular question, Islam is still bad for women. (Not that I can think who it is good for, but that's another conversation)

Basically ALM is right. Apologists trot out these claims. And even when they are not lying outright they still tend to obscure things. For example, another illustration of the "rights" of Muslim women is the fact that they are supposed to have the right to their own wealth; they do not have to use their money to contribute to the household. Sure, sounds so great and awesome, right? But there's a problem: you need your husband's permission to work and obtain wealth to begin with. Now if my husband forbids me from working, what good is it this right?

Quote from: billy on February 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
"And lo, verily hath they spoken, not one of this tribe, upon whom these entreaties were beseeched for the Lord, could giveth a shit."

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #339 - March 28, 2011, 03:36 AM

Quote from: debunker on March 28, 2011, 03:32 AM
now, i'm curious, aren't you living in the US? How can any law, other than US law, apply to you?

Yes I live in the US so under civil law I could be divorced, no problem there. But as my husband would not divorce me Islamically I was not free to marry another man in a halal fashion. I don't care at this point since doing things in a halal fashion is not on my list of priorities.

Quote from: billy on February 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
"And lo, verily hath they spoken, not one of this tribe, upon whom these entreaties were beseeched for the Lord, could giveth a shit."

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #340 - March 28, 2011, 03:41 AM

but you did get a divorce according to civil law, right?

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #341 - March 28, 2011, 06:05 AM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on March 28, 2011, 03:24 AM
(Not that I can think who it is good for, but that's another conversation)
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #342 - March 28, 2011, 06:23 AM

Keep laughing, BD. Alexandrr is laughing 2.

Where are you located, btw, it's terribly late in DC

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #343 - March 28, 2011, 08:03 AM

zee.. My goodness, you guys have moved far away from what that "bluecake Ex-Muslim" was discussing.

The thread moved all the way from Muslim women to hindu small penis., That is no good..What is the connection?? there is no connection there..

So, Where did she go?? or is it he?? ah .....ha... this is her last post
Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 09:37 PM

In all seriousness there are only two people in this thread so far who have made decent arguments : both of which aren't here now.

The rest of you :facepalm:

Common bluecake, why are you picking only two fellows? there are plenty of good arguments here. By the way who are they?

And where did you get this idea of " women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale"? are these numbers in 10s of thousnands?? ? If they are just in 100s, then I think all these women belong to a fraternity and they like to be "RIGHT HAND POSSESS" to a muslin man because they love their husbands to have 4 wives and they also like to live as a pious subjugated wife.

by the way are they from west?? do you have any links, statistics on that "bluecake Ex-Muslim"??

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #344 - March 28, 2011, 10:20 AM

Quote from: Ram on March 28, 2011, 01:14 AM
Women are not allowed to vote in many Muslim countries - why?

give me sources from the Quran and hadith which say women can't vote.

Then look in history, and you will find that islam was first to give women the right to vote e.g. such as the Caliphates.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #345 - March 28, 2011, 10:24 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on March 28, 2011, 08:03 AM

So, Where did she go?? or is it he?? ah .....ha... this is her last postCommon bluecake, why are you picking only two fellows? there are plenty of good arguments here. By the way who are they?

Hassan and another person earlier on who were making decent arguments with the aid of textual evidence.
Quite frankly they are the only two people here who I am now only going to bother replying too. Anyway i shouldnt be on the computer - im at school - see you later.

Don't argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #346 - March 28, 2011, 10:47 AM

Quote from: bluecake on March 28, 2011, 10:20 AM
give me sources from the Quran and hadith which say women can't vote.

Then look in history, and you will find that islam was first to give women the right to vote e.g. such as the Caliphates.

Islam did everything first!

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #347 - March 28, 2011, 11:00 AM

I still can not get to this day why Muslims are still holding onto this belief that their faith is some what unquestionable!

Women can not vote in Islam. Voting is banned in Islam. Islam and Shariat contradict the democractic system. Under Sharia, Women are subjected as inferior, so blue what rights does a woman have? 2 women equal one man? a women can be lashed for being raped, a women who was raped by a group of men in Saudi Arabia, was lashed after they found out the guy in the car was not her relative or male guardian? is this the Islam you want us to follow?

and all this talk of women converting to Islam non-sense in the 1000s and on this scale and that scale.

Obviously, if they marry a Muslim man, by the laws of Islam they must convert. I have met couples who drink alcohol to this day and label themselves Muslims. I have also met Converts who leave Islam after a while, especially when their relationship is failed.

Obviously, these converts like to live a life with a victimised character, it makes them feel important and they get attention, ohhh look at the white woman with the hijab oh mashallah mashallah etc etc etc, I think they should go and live under these Muslim/Islamic Laws and taste some reality.

They say Muslim women have freedom, well lets test it, ask yourself, what would happen if a Muslim women wore a Gucci dress in Ridyh in Saudi Arabia? Would she be free to do that, just to change her clothes? Its not killing anybody is it? we all know what would happen to her.

Women in Muslim countries are treated very badly, and Islam plays a major role in this. Those women in the west who praise Islam as some kind of holy key to real freedom, I suggest they go to a Muslim country, and lets see if they get any sort of basic freedoms that they get in the west, and lets see if they can accept being hung for leaving the same relgion they entered into.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #348 - March 28, 2011, 11:22 AM

Hi bluecake - I might have missed your reply to this - or you may have missed my questions - so here they are again

Quote from: Hassan on March 27, 2011, 06:48 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 02:50 PM
1. The quote is reffering to financial transaction only where it was often men who had made business deals etc. with other people and places. As the woman would not neccessarily be directly involved as a wife she would obviously witness something with the business deals but not as much as the men would.

(For arguments sake I will accept your definition.) Does that mean it no longer applies as many women now work and carry out financial transactions?

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 02:50 PM
2. Where does it say that a woman can't be positioned at high authority

لن يفلح قوم ولوا أمرهم امرأة

‘No people shall ever prosper who appoint a woman in charge of their affairs" (Bukhari)

Quote from: bluecake on March 27, 2011, 02:50 PM
I've already dealed with that verse in our earlier discussion - where everything I said I agreed with.

How do you yourself personally 'fee'l about the permission to "tap" one's wife if she behaves badly. Does it sound reasonable to you?
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #349 - March 28, 2011, 11:27 AM

Quote from: bluecake on March 28, 2011, 10:24 AM
Hassan and another person earlier on who were making decent arguments with the aid of textual evidence.
Quite frankly they are the only two people here who I am now only going to bother replying too. Anyway i shouldnt be on the computer - im at school - see you later.

Quite frankly I have little desire to 'debate' the validity of silly and often downright idiotic truth claims of Islam and much less treating 'textual evidence' in Quran as anything but for what it is. Complete nonsense that is a relic of the times when the trousered ape was much less sophisticated and knowledgeable than today.

Seriously, watching you present 'evidence' is like billy said: If some tribes from the Amazon rainforest walked into our society and started preaching their nonsense ...

The first thing that would pop to mind is whether these guys are for real with their bizarre freak show or is this some kind of elaborate hoax.

Quote from: bluecake on March 28, 2011, 10:20 AM
give me sources from the Quran and hadith which say women can't vote.

Then look in history, and you will find that islam was first to give women the right to vote e.g. such as the Caliphates.

In this context it is interesting to note that societies where Islam plays a decisive role are the epitome of backwardness.
Not just technologically/scientifically as attested by almost a complete lack of peer reviewed scientific articles and research that originates from such countries; just think about "How to tapp the Jinn to solve the energy crisis" by Pakistani nuclear scientist Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood etc.
Countries affected by Islam are also profoundly backward when it comes to wider societal and social development and harbour norms and values that are reactionary, misogynistic, anti-modern, anti-egalitarian, anti-enlightenment and anti-emancipatory.

In fact the more Islamic a country is the more profound its problems are.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #350 - March 28, 2011, 01:51 PM

Meh, if blue cakes wants to talk to Hassan I say let Hassan do his thing.

So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #351 - March 28, 2011, 03:19 PM

Quote from: bluecake on March 28, 2011, 10:20 AM
give me sources from the Quran and hadith which say women can't vote.

Then look in history, and you will find that islam was first to give women the right to vote

No it wasn't.

Are you a convert btw?
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #352 - March 28, 2011, 04:44 PM

Quote from: Pashtun on March 28, 2011, 11:00 AM
Voting is banned in Islam.

Bullshit.

Quote
a women can be lashed for being raped,

crap.

Quote
a women who was raped by a group of men in Saudi Arabia, was lashed after they found out the guy in the car was not her relative or male guardian?

That's because she was a poor Shia (1 or 2 other cases involved girls from groups discriminated against). In normal cases, all what a girl has to do in Saudi is accuse someone of raping her, and they would torture the accused until he confesses (which is barbarity against males, if you ask me).

Quote
Obviously, if they marry a Muslim man, by the laws of Islam they must convert.

How the hell did you come up with this lie?

Quote
They say Muslim women have freedom, well lets test it, ask yourself, what would happen if a Muslim women wore a Gucci dress in Ridyh in Saudi Arabia? Would she be free to do that, just to change her clothes? Its not killing anybody is it? we all know what would happen to her.

You tell me, what would happen? have you ever been to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia? Fucking Gucci, Prada, Dolce et Gabbana, Luis Vuitton, Chanel, Christian Dior,etc,etc Boutiques are everywhere in Riyadh, catering to women.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #353 - March 28, 2011, 05:11 PM

Why all theses talks, debunker? All irrelevant technicalities. We already agreed with you that in al-Islam: first man, then horse, then dog and then woman. End of discussion.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #354 - March 28, 2011, 05:16 PM

/
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #355 - March 28, 2011, 05:19 PM

debunker, instead of calling what I write crap, can you explain to us all why are Arab Islamists leading the Libyan Rebels. Why has the telegraph confirmed this as well.

Secondly, you are telling me a woman can wear a skirt in a Arab bedione society in Arabia? You really do want to push this Arab Nationalism down our throats.

Of course a women can be lashed if she does not produce witnesses of the rape.

She can also be thrown into Jail, typical of the Arab bedione mindset.

Islam has destroyed rich cultures and societies and brought backwards into the sands of Arabia.

Does Sharia allow Voting? No it does not.

Are libyan rebel Arab Terrorists following the Afghan Model with the Americans, Yes they are.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #356 - March 28, 2011, 05:23 PM

Debunker, why do Angels curse the wife who doesnt want to have Sex? how can a flying donkey take moh to another part of the world?

Islam is only suited to Arab Nationalists who can use it to control their colonies around the world.
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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #357 - March 28, 2011, 05:24 PM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on March 28, 2011, 05:11 PM
Why all theses talks, debunker? All irrelevant technicalities. We already agreed with you that in al-Islam: first man, then horse, then dog and then woman. End of discussion.

No, I agreed that Islam belittles women... i.e. puts women at level between kids and adult men. I'm not saying i'm cool with that of course.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #358 - March 28, 2011, 05:26 PM

Quote from: Mount A Bison on March 28, 2011, 05:16 PM
Never occured to me. Very good this. Mashallah.

What does Bunker have to say for himself? Let him quit flirting with that drunken Slav Alex, and answer your timeless wisdom.

this.

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Re: Why women are converting to islam at an unprecedented scale
Reply #359 - March 28, 2011, 05:34 PM

Quote from: Pashtun on March 28, 2011, 05:19 PM
debunker, instead of calling what I write crap, can you explain to us all why are Arab Islamists leading the Libyan Rebels. Why has the telegraph confirmed this as well.

and why birds fly, and fish swim? How is that relevant to denying false claims by you?

Quote
Secondly, you are telling me a woman can wear a skirt in a Arab bedione society in Arabia? You really do want to push this Arab Nationalism down our throats.

First you talk about women in Riyadh, and now you specify bedouin women in particular? i don't know about bedouin women, but i would guess their conditions are very harsh (heard that they cover up their faces even at home... I heard that but I'm not sure it's true).

Anyway, are you saying I'm lying about these boutiques being all over Riyadh?

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Of course a women can be lashed if she does not produce witnesses of the rape.

crap seconded.

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She can also be thrown into Jail, typical of the Arab bedione mindset.

I'm not gonna repeat myself, Pakistani bedouin.

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Islam has destroyed rich cultures and societies and brought backwards into the sands of Arabia.

That's true in many cases, but irrevant to the lies you postsed in your previous comment.

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Does Sharia allow Voting? No it does not.

Tell that to Saudi Wahhabis when the government allowed voting for municiplality coucil (all those who won were hardline Isalmists).

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Are libyan rebel Arab Terrorists following the Afghan Model with the Americans, Yes they are.

hell no they are not... anyway, again, that's irrelvant to the lies you posted above.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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