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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents

 (Read 60281 times)
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  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #330 - December 22, 2011, 09:41 PM

    You're not even worth taking seriously now. I mean, coming up with any old crap just to win the argument? If that's not a sign of someone talking absolute utter bullshit as they go along, then not many are.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #331 - December 22, 2011, 09:42 PM

    edit: double post.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #332 - December 22, 2011, 09:43 PM

    If "never suggested otherwise so there is nothing for me to "admit"", then you certainly, at the least, deliberately mislead this argument by implying that I had actually "imagined" that someone used the word "forced" and that no one had used it.

    At what point did I say that nobody has used the word "forced"?  Again, are you basing your replied on YOUR presumptions rather than what was ACTUALLY said?


    And how many more times do I have to tell you that I was specifically referring to Ishina and the fact that she didn't use the word "forced"... which she didn't... but that didn't stop you erecting your strawman which was directed at her did it?

    Now do you want to drop this?  Or shall I humiliate you further?


    And are you going to answer the question I've asked you 4 or 5 times now?

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #333 - December 22, 2011, 09:47 PM

    Humiliate me? Not only are you thick, dishonest and a bullshiter, but you are also deluded.

    Be careful now, soon you'll have all the characteristics of a Muslim.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #334 - December 22, 2011, 09:48 PM

    The Demba...

    Do you think it was wrong for Adbur to extract a shahadah out his dying, lucid, drugged up father and publicly announce it AT ALL... eg by writing about it on his facebook page?  Or do you think this is no big deal?

    Please answer succinctly, without strawmen, insults, or too many smilies.  Cheers.

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #335 - December 22, 2011, 10:00 PM

    At what point did I say that nobody has used the word "forced"?  Again, are you basing your replied on YOUR presumptions rather than what was ACTUALLY said?



    You didn't say it, but you certainly implied it. Here -

    " ^ Ok The Demba NOW someone really has used the word "forced"....."

    Now doubt, you will twist and turn again and bring up another embarrassing excuse.


    Quote
    And how many more times do I have to tell you that I was specifically referring to Ishina and the fact that she didn't use the word "forced"... which she didn't... but that didn't stop you erecting your strawman which was directed at her did it?

     

    You came to her aid backing her up... clearly this gave the impression that you two shared the same opinion. What did you expect? That you came to help her without actually agreeing with her point of view? She said things implying that he was forced or at least wasn't happy to take the conversion, that's why I asked all those questions that you quoted few posts back. Do you understand it, or shall I explain it in simpler terms for simpler minds like yours?

    And anway, why did you intervene on her behalf? Was she so weak that she asked you to help her?
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #336 - December 22, 2011, 10:13 PM

    boy this is till running wild...
    The Demba...

    Do you think it was wrong for Adbur to extract a shahadah out his dying, lucid, drugged up father and publicly announce it AT ALL... eg by writing about it on his facebook page?  Or do you think this is no big deal?

    Please answer succinctly, without strawmen, insults, or too many smilies.  Cheers.

    Shahid  let it go.. CEMB needs people like Demba to read and participate in it..

    But we can get more such similar cases in to this thread from the history of Islam to understand their mindset

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #337 - December 22, 2011, 10:22 PM

    You didn't say it, but you certainly implied it. Here -

    So I didn't say it, but I "implied" it eh?  Well knock me down with a fuckin feather.  You're doing it again.

    Why don't stop responding to what YOU perceive, or what you presume, or what you presume we implied, or what seems, or what you think we said, or anything else you can conjure up in your vivid imagination...

    ...and why don't you actually try to refute what was... er.. you know... ACTUALLY SAID?


    You came to her aid backing her up... clearly this gave the impression that you two shared the same opinion. What did you expect? That you came to help her without actually agreeing with her point of view? She said things implying that he was forced or at least wasn't happy to take the conversion, that's why I asked all those questions that you quoted few posts back. Do you understand it, or shall I explain it in simpler terms for simpler minds like yours?

    And anway, why did you intervene on her behalf? Was she so weak that she asked you to help her?

    Because in this thread, it just so happens that you're the one chatting shit and not her.  Ishina is not my friend and neither am I hers.  If Ishina chats shit in another thread that I'm interested in then I would happily and obnoxiously respond and attempt to refute her (and vice versa I presume).  When it comes to debates and discussions, I don't do "friendships" and I haven't got anyones back.  I state my opinion, pure and simple.  I don't do ass-licking.

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #338 - December 22, 2011, 10:27 PM

    Why aren't you answering that question btw The Demba?

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #339 - December 22, 2011, 10:39 PM

    I think you've just about reached the limits of written language on demba. Even when he does manage to read a whole sentence, he doesn't understand words anyway. Maybe you should try flash cards. Or hand puppets.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #340 - December 22, 2011, 10:45 PM

    Quote
    Why aren't you answering that question btw The Demba?


    Because you're a coward and incapable of admitting your fallacy when you are in the wrong. Right now, as I suspected, you're not man enough. You keep bringing up embarrassing excuses and, on top of that, you declare your own victory! Get lost.... I hold no respect for such people. Making-up bullshit arguments as your go along is a sign of you.... well.... talking absolute utter bullshit. Haven't you had enough yet?

    Clearly, when you say "" ^ Ok The Demba NOW someone really has used the word "forced".....", then this obviously means that you thought no one had used the word, even though you used it yourself earlier. Clear as day really. Why deny it simply based on your terribly weak argument that you never said it outright? What a load of bloody nonsense. And you call yourself a good debater?

    You lost your creditability, that's why I'm not answering your question. (I've already answered you once though, I believe.)



  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #341 - December 22, 2011, 11:00 PM

    Clearly, when you say "" ^ Ok The Demba NOW someone really has used the word "forced".....", then this obviously means that you thought no one had used the word, even though you used it yourself earlier. Clear as day really.

    Erm... no... not at all.  It doesn't mean that at all.

    Why don't you include some context in there?  I said that after your strawman.... and you dredged up an example way before your strawman.  Would it help if I explain to you using a silly analogy?


    Let's say...

    On Monday I cook a curry and eat it all up.

    On Tuesday, my friend thinks he smells curry, and he accuses me of making curry... and I tell him he's mistaken.

    On Wednesday, I really DO cook a curry, and I say to my friend... "Look friend, NOW I really AM cooking a curry!"


    Get the picture?  The Monday curry is kinda irrelevant to the incident thereafter on Tuesday/Wednesday isn't it?


    Now would you like to answer that question I've been asking you, or just remove yourself from this thread.

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #342 - December 22, 2011, 11:02 PM

    I think you've just about reached the limits of written language on demba. Even when he does manage to read a whole sentence, he doesn't understand words anyway. Maybe you should try flash cards. Or hand puppets.


    You seem to have given-up and resorted to throwing "clever" and "funny" lines about me ever since I posted this reply to you .. (
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=15228.msg544818#msg544818)

    Well, at least, you fully realised that you've been set right and that you were talking bullshit hence why you stopped the debating, unlike Rashid Raza  Although resorting to pointless digs instead is not quite so clever, but I'm willing to forget it. You're not even that good at it, to be honest. Bless you.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #343 - December 22, 2011, 11:05 PM

    Someone fill me in on this debate/argument thats going on? Between Demba and everyone else.

    "To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is barbarity."

    Maximilien Robespierre
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #344 - December 22, 2011, 11:10 PM


    Quote
    Erm... no... not at all.  It doesn't mean that at all.

    Why don't you include some context in there?  I said that after your strawman.... and you dredged up an example way before your strawman.  Would it help if I explain to you using a silly analogy?


    Wow, shock horror! You're denying it! I'll give you marks for your stubbornness, that's for sure.

    Crap example, btw. I bet everyone on this board, who isn't your friend anyway, knows exactly what you meant when you quoted z10.


    Quote
    No would you like to answer that question I've been asking you, or just remove yourself from this thread because you haven't contributed much.


    Well, at least, unlike you, I'm not contributing out of my arse in this thread.

    I'll remove myself from this thread when I want to. Otherwise, suck up to your moderators and asked them to ban me.


  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #345 - December 22, 2011, 11:10 PM

    Another analogy...

    If I say "fuck you" on Monday.

    On Tuesday you accuse my friend, Jim, of saying "fuck you"... but you were wrong.

    On Wednesday, my other friend, Mike, says "fuck you"..... and I say "Ok The Demba NOW someone really HAS said fuck you".


    ^ The Monday "fuck you" is kinda irrelevant to what happened thereafter on Tuesday/Wednesday, ie AFTER your false accusation, isn't it?

    Do you get it now?  Or shall I draw you a picture?

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #346 - December 22, 2011, 11:12 PM

    There is a question that you're not answering The Demba.  Would you like to answer it please?

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #347 - December 22, 2011, 11:14 PM

    Someone fill me in on this debate/argument thats going on? Between Demba and everyone else.


    He's twisted and turned and can't get out. And now, he's simply covering his own arse by deludedly thinking he's smart and declaring his own victories. Sheeeesh, what a tit that guy is. Don't think I've ever encountered such a blatant bull-shiter.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #348 - December 22, 2011, 11:15 PM

    Well let us learn ab it about Shiekh Abdur Raheem Green

    [Excerpts]

    Quote
    Your background

    I was born to British parents in Darussalam in Tanzania in 1964. My father Gavin Green was a colonial administrator in the still existent British empire. He later joined Barclays Bank in 1976 and was sent to Egypt to set up Egyptian Barclays Bank. I was educated at famous Roman Catholic Monastic School called Ampleforth College and went on to study history in the London University. However, I left my education unfinished.

    Currently, I am working with an Islamic media company based in England and engage myself in dawah activities including lectures on Islam in London’s famous Hyde Park.


    What kept you from obtaining a degree?

    I grew totally disillusioned with the British educational system. It was thoroughly Eurocentric and projected world history in a way that suggested that the civilisation attained its full glory and apogee in Europe. Having lived in Egypt and seen some of the majestic ruins which only archaeologists have access to, I found the West’s interpretation of history totally fallacious. I began a private study of histories of other peoples of the world, various religious scriptures and philosophy. I was practising Buddhism for nearly three years though never formally embraced it.

    Study of the Holy Qur’an immediately attracted me. Its message had a magical appeal and I grew convinced that it was a divine revelation. I believe only Allah guided me, none else. I don’t know what made me deserve Islam.


    But anything specific that could have appealed to you?

    I was dissatisfied with Christianity from the age of eight. The concept that was taught to us through rhymes such as Hail Mary! Was not at all acceptable to me. While on one hand the Christians described God to be eternal and infinite they felt no compunctions in ascribing birth of God from the womb of Mary. This made me think that Mary must be greater than God.

    Secondly, the Christians’ concept of trinity was puzzlesome for me. The similitude like Canadian Maple leaf being one despite three sections appeared utterly unapplicable.

    The crunch came when an Egyptian started questioning me. Despite being confused about the Christian belief I was trying to be dogmatic as most white, middle-class, English Christians do. I was flummoxed when he led me to accept that the God died on the crucifix, thus laying bare the hollowness of the Christian claims of eternity and infinity of God. I now came to realise that I was believing in as absurd a concept as two plus two is equal to five all through my adolescent years.

    West’s prelaid, programmed life intensely repelled me. I began to question if a person has to live a life merely to get strait-jacketed in a rigorous schedule. I found Europeans struggling a lot to enjoy life. They had no higher purpose in life.

    West’s capacity to brainwash its people became plain to me when I discussed the Palestine issue with Egyptians and Palestinians. Several myths-historical, political, economic - were fabricated by the Zionists and propagated unchallenged by the Western media. How could a land vacated by Jews 2000 years earlier be their homeland? I also came to know that existing Jewish people were actually Slavs, not Semites and that Palestinian land was always a green orchard. Israel fabricated the myth of “magical transformation of desert into greenland.”

    The American double-speak and hypocrisy began to sink in as I studied the US role in planting and sustaining despotic rulers in Latin America while punishing the Soviet Bloc.

    What contrast have you found between people’s lives in Egypt and the UK?

    Egyptians were poor, suffered hardships, yet were happy. They left everything in the hands of Allah and forget their miseries when they return home. Prayers help them place their worries before their God. I noticed humility as well as intimacy in Islamic prayers.

    But in England I found people shallow, materialistic. They try to be happy but happiness is superficial. Their prayers combined songs, dances, clapping but no humility, nor intimacy with God.

    I realised that popular opinion in the West was totally hostage to the Zionist-controlled media. The question of Palestine was one among these. My conversation with Palestinians revealed as to how the West had believed in myths about Israel. First among them was that the Jews had the right to return to their original homeland in Israel. Secondly they conveniently described themselves Semitic while the fact was that most Jews of the world were Slavs who had later converted to Judaism. Thirdly Israel’s economic miracle was theorised to create the economic and scientific myth.

    The fact was that I never got to know the Palestinian side of the issue. I got convinced that the people of the West were brainwashed by the media. I found that the US was trying every trick to punish nations indulging in small violations of human rights in the third world but was itself sending death squads into Latin American nations to liquidate their leaders who refused to toe the US line. Such hypocrisy is never criticised by the US media.

    How do you find life as a Muslim in the UK?

    The Western psyche emphasizes one’s individuality. This is at variance with Islam. Any sincere Muslim feels disturbed. He or she is constantly bombarded by sex and sexuality. Most girls lose virginity by 13 and it is normal for girls to have three to four boyfriends.

    The dilemma before Muslims in the West is as to how to integrate with a society so steeped in sex, drugs, drinks and sexual intimacy. And if no integration, then how to save themselves from ghettoisation.


    Has the dawah work produced some results in the UK?

    Dawah is progressing at a steady pace. Neo-converts have a lot of enthusiasm. They know how dark is the life for a commoner.

    How does a common British citizen look at the organisations like the Muslim Parliament?

    This kind of terminology is frightening and intimidating for a common citizen. The Muslim Parliament was an organisation founded by Kaleem Siddiqui. I cannot praise him as a italics. Such attempts are doomed to failure. This is an attempt to create artificial unity.


    Does the Hizbut Tahrir find approval in Britain?

    Again this organisation unnecessarily intimidates the people. The objective of dawah is to invite the people to worship one Allah. The Holy Prophet (Pbuh) did not preach Khilafah. All this is damaging for Islam in the UK. They say the only place to meet a Jew is on a battlefield while a Muslim should expect him to be sitting or standing next to him.

    Your family life

    I have two wives, both British-born Muslims of Indian origin and six children.

    Does not the British law prohibit bigamy?

    It does. Yet several Britishers are bigamists. But those who practise bigamy can protect the second marriage under the provisions of “common law wives”. Under this children out of such marriages are legitimate and wives inherit property.


    That interview was published in 1997  ..and published in  Islamic Voice, Volume 11-11 No: 130, November 1997

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUcDpndkZIQ

    good joke..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #349 - December 22, 2011, 11:17 PM

    Another analogy...

    If I say "fuck you" on Monday.

    On Tuesday you accuse my friend, Jim, of saying "fuck you"... but you were wrong.

    On Wednesday, my other friend, Mike, says "fuck you"..... and I say "Ok The Demba NOW someone really HAS said fuck you...


    ^ The Monday "fuck you" is kinda irrelevant to what happened thereafter on Tuesday/Wednesday, ie AFTER your false accusation, isn't it?

    Do you get it now?  Or shall I draw you a picture?



    You're wrong (here's a surprise), it is another shit analogy designed to cover your embarrassment.

    Oh dear....
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #350 - December 22, 2011, 11:19 PM

    Someone fill me in on this debate/argument thats going on? Between Demba and everyone else.

    I don't really know but you can start by clicking the quote in my sig. Wink
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #351 - December 22, 2011, 11:22 PM

    But what is the argument about?

    "To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is barbarity."

    Maximilien Robespierre
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #352 - December 22, 2011, 11:23 PM

    There is a question that you're not answering The Demba.  Would you like to answer it please?


    The reason I refuse to answer your question, which I have already answered once anyway, is because there is simply no point in debating with a bull-shiter like you who is incapable of growing some balls, even on the internet, to admit his own faulty and embarrassing arguments.

    Do you understand now why I don't want to take this debate any further with you? I'll spell it out for you once again -

    You. have. lost. your. creditability. OK? Accept it.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #353 - December 22, 2011, 11:28 PM

    Can you clearly and concisely, without any of your bravado, personal insults or whatever.... list exactly what it is that I am supposed to be "admitting"...

    Oh and remember, don't construct any non-arguments based on what you "presume" or what you presume I "implied".  If you want me to admit something, it has to be something I actually SAID.

    Go on...

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #354 - December 22, 2011, 11:42 PM

    Quote
    ^ Ok The Demba NOW someone really has used the word "forced"... and you're not imagining it and you don't have to erect a strawman and you're free to refute what he actually said rather than YOUR own presumptions.

    You see?  Are you learning the art of debating now?


    OK, so what did you mean in the bolded part above? And why did you say that I'm not imagining it (meaning that you thought I had imagined it before).... even though you knew that you had used the word "forced" before?


  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #355 - December 22, 2011, 11:46 PM

    I've already told you what I mean in the bolded part.  You imagined the word "forced" in Ishinas post... I exposed your strawman... after that z10 really DID use the word "forced" and I mentioned that to you.

    I even gave you 2 analogies.

    What do you want me to "admit" exactly?  The fact that 2.5 months ago I used the word "forced" long before all that is neither here nor there, and it is also something I never denied.  Unless we look through your "implied" and "presumed" goggles.


    Is there anything else you'd like me to "admit"?  Or are you just deliberately doing everything you can to NOT answer the question I've asked you several times?

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #356 - December 23, 2011, 12:04 AM

    How can I put it in simpler terms for you to understand?  Lets see...

    If I say... "ok NOW I'm going to New York".... that does not mean and it does not equate to... "I have never been to New York".

    If I say... "ok NOW someone has said forced".... that does not mean and it does not equate to... "nobody has ever said forced".

    You need to consider the context, ie the point at which you erected your strawman argument.

    Please tell me you get it now?  Or I really would despair...

    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #357 - December 23, 2011, 12:18 AM

    Quote
    I've already told you what I mean in the bolded part.  You imagined the word "forced" in Ishinas post...


    And I have already explained to your thick mind what I meant by asking those questions to Ishina. But, with pretty much everything else, it went straight out of your head. But anyway, to answer that silly point again, I'll sum it up for one last time -

    I asked those questions because she was posting about this, the conversion that is, as if to indicate that Green Snr was forced to convert or somehow he is unhappy with it all. So I simply asked questions to the contrary, to provide evidence and not to type out of sheer ignorance (like you did on this matter), because, after all, none of us here have connections with the Greens.

    Now, why are you, this time, implying that I had "imagined" Ishina to have said "forced"? I simply asked questions that I wanted replies back to. (Not surprisingly, she didn't bother.)

    Quote
    I exposed your strawman


    The only thing you exposed in this whole debate is your lack of honesty, bullshitness and lack of credibility in participating in a debate. You do realise that I'm not actually taking you seriously now, do you? And I'm not just taking about your participation in this topic! YOU.... ARE.... A .... JOKE.

    Quote
    I even gave you 2 analogies.


    Don't clutch yours straws, they were both shit, pretty much just like most of your posts. (The 3rd one too.)

    Quote
    What do you want me to "admit" exactly?  The fact that 2.5 months ago I used the word "forced" long before all that is neither here nor there, and it is also something I never denied.  Unless we look through your "implied" and "presumed" goggles.


    Well, if you actually had bothered to read the rest of my posts, you would have realised that someone did actually use the word "forced", after you and before z10. If you just had read all of the posts on here rather than jump about like a monkey.


    Quote
    Is there anything else you'd like me to "admit"?  Or are you just deliberately doing everything you can to NOT answer the question I've asked you several times?


    As I have said many times before, you thicko, I have already answered your question. What exactly are looking to gain out of it anyway?

    The fact is, and it still stands, you're a complete, utter, meaningless bull-shiter who would make up any old shit argument simply to win the argument. Sign of a buffoon who doesn't know what he's talking about. And that, Sir, is what you are.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #358 - December 23, 2011, 12:28 AM

    You seem to have given-up and resorted to throwing "clever" and "funny" lines about me ever since I posted this reply to you .. (
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=15228.msg544818#msg544818)

    I dunno what's more baffling: the fact that it took you so many words to say "NO U!" or the fact that you see that post as your ultimate, iron-clad, close-down argument.

    It's just a string of rushed insults. The same clammy-handed, raging twatwafflery you've been substituting for actual debate for the entire thread. The same endless loop of angry bullshit, spitting and hating and shitting yourself because someone disagrees with you. E-thug threats included. You even shot down z10, one of the nicest, insightful, and calmest blokes on the forum, for daring to question you. You're indiscriminately raging at everyone and anyone, flailing wildly in all direction like a fucking screaming newborn.

    I got bored of it. It's just blurring into continuous background noise. That's why I didn't respond. What the fuck did you expect a response to look like anyway? Just more tit-for-tat? There’s nothing there to respond to. Nothing interesting or informative. Nothing insightful. No wit or humour. No banter to be had. You're just a whiney little maggot that doesn't know when to shut the fuck up.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis on his non-Muslim parents
     Reply #359 - December 23, 2011, 12:33 AM

    I asked those questions because she was posting about this, the conversion that is, as if to indicate that Green Snr was forced to convert or somehow he is unhappy with it all.

    "as if to indicate" eh?

    There you go again, your vivid imagination is running wild and you're STILL attempting to refute what you presume was said rather than what was actually said.  Fact is, the word "forced" was not used by her.

    It was used by me 2.5 months ago, and by yeezevee... but NOT by the person you directed your strawman towards.

    Now I would advise you to end this right here and spare yourself any further embarrassment.  The rest of your post was repeated, already refuted by me, and with the personal insults of course...


    So I guess all that remains is for you answer that question I've been asking you several times now...


    Go on, answer it, in the name of Allah, the most benevolent, the most merciful....

    .
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