Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?

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- nj7
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #30 - April 05, 2011, 01:41 PM

I hope you don't feel too disheartened, Hassan. I'd guess these comments just represent some of the closed minded people you spoke of in your 1st post. Any Muslims who are in a more receptive state and find your video stimulates doubts or helps them along their journey to apostasy would probably not comment on such a video. Only if they have already freed themselves from fear of Allah would they actively comment anything favourable, but those still on that journey might instead reflect on your arguments and investigate further, or it at least chips away at the cement as billy says. They would be far less likely to comment than those with completely closed minds.

It's also no doubt helpful for those who are already ex-muslims but in the back of their minds have remnents of the fear of eternal torture etc.

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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #31 - April 05, 2011, 01:43 PM

My advice would be: Know your enemy.

The delivery should vary depending on who you're talking to and what is being discussed. Treat each individual according to their own merits and flaws, and each matter according to its strengths and weaknesses.

Some people have pretty much been lobotomised by their faith, and no amount of arguing will sway them. Some people just need to mature and develop their mental faculties more, and you’ll never sway them, because they are simply not yet capable of being swayed in any practical way (but you can sew seeds that might yet bloom). Some are suckers who will believe any old bullshit as long as it makes them feel good. Some can see emotional appeals a mile off and will remain unimpressed and unmoved by them. And on, and on.

Different stokes for different folks.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #32 - April 05, 2011, 01:50 PM

Very true Ishna
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #33 - April 05, 2011, 01:57 PM

Must know what makes them tick. E.g.: Say there's a rumor that Ahmed slapped his wife by accident when trying to point to her the store where he saw nice dresses. As a result she had to wear sunglasses for a week to hide the bruises. Argue ad nauseam with Ahmed how disgusting it is to deny gays the same rights as other people and how religion is always the cause of such bigotry.

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #34 - April 05, 2011, 04:37 PM

Quote from: MoeAlharbi on April 05, 2011, 01:21 PM
Tried numerous times with my mom and dad. The more I talk with them, the more apparent it appears that they are avoiding my points from getting through to them.
I sometimes hear them and other muslims say "I am keeping an open mind, you're the one who's not" and I just facepalm inside.
These muslims won't be open unless they allow themselves to, even if they claim to be open.

Hassan, another big reason is how much these people can spend time reflecting and reviewing the faith they believe in. My dad works a lot, takes a nap after he comes home, has to help my mom and the kids, has my grandparents and other relatives to spend time with, has other business in Canada that he has to deal with, and sometimes he has to go back to work again at night. So I can understand him when he says "I'm not going to keep on arguing about this any longer"

sounds like your dad's a medical doctor.

A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #35 - April 05, 2011, 06:30 PM

.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #36 - April 05, 2011, 07:06 PM

Quote from: Mount A Bison on April 05, 2011, 06:30 PM
When you tell the man that his notions about the Invisible Choir are mistaken remember what you are actually doing Hassan: You are not saying that his calculations about the world are a little off merely. What you are truly saying to the poor fish is that the people whom he’s trusted all his life to give him the truth have lied to him systematically without end

Indeed MAB - I completely agree. Great post.

Quote from: Mount A Bison on April 05, 2011, 06:30 PM
Question of the month: Of the 24 hours a day which the Lord gave you to sweat under the sun, how much time do you set aside for the activity of thinking? Five minutes? Ten? Thirty?

As you rightly say, my life is filled with the routines I did yesterday - trapped in a prison I'm unable to escape from. I have no idea how much time I spend thinking - really thinking - very little I suspect.

Quote from: Mount A Bison on April 05, 2011, 06:30 PM
The bestest way to assault your friend’s mental defences is to make him unhappy with the people by whom he is presently made happy, that is to say you have to make his heart beat to the sound of your name. Go for his head my sweet and let me know how long it takes for him to sock you.

Totally agree, MAB - totally agree!
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #37 - April 05, 2011, 07:36 PM

.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #38 - April 05, 2011, 08:19 PM

Well done MAB, keep it up! (No, that's not a double entendre.)

You make some extremely clever and profound observations at times and I have no idea why you feel you have to bury everything within the smokescreen of all this sexual and homoerotic nonsense. Maybe you could turn your considerable psychoanalytical skills to finding the reasons for that - maybe you already know. But it is a mystery to me.
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #39 - April 05, 2011, 10:49 PM

it indeed is an enigma, Hassan, why he has to bury everything within the smokescreen of this sexual and homoerotic tension.

Through Logic, truth can be ascertained.
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #40 - April 05, 2011, 11:51 PM

q
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #41 - April 06, 2011, 09:09 AM

Quote from: Mount A Bison on April 05, 2011, 11:51 PM
@Hassan

Let me tell you the diagnosis. I'm temperamentally indisposed to explaining things to the enstupidated. The tedium is one notch above trying to patiently explain the facts of life to a little chit who is deaf, dumb and blind. I need something to drive me on to the next sentence, the next paragraph, the next post. A little humour keeps the fires burning.

I see, well in that case I am most grateful that you grace us half-witted with your presence and shall never complain that your nuggets of wisdom have to extracted from a rock face of salacious prattle.

Though I'm curious about what motivates you to such selfless charity when the cost to your great mind is such tedium?
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #42 - April 06, 2011, 09:24 AM

Quote from: Hassan on April 06, 2011, 09:09 AM

Though I'm curious about what motivates you to such selfless charity when the cost to your great mind is such tedium?

well.. he named himself as bison and his brain got bisonized,

So with all that allah given skills and intelligence, he uses it to write lots of sexual gibberish along few nuggets in it. I think bison brain has become too big to his skull., may be there is a tumor in it ..

take it easy bison.. just a joke

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #43 - April 06, 2011, 11:24 AM

Funny thing is we once had a christian family friends when i was a child, we made an attempt to convince them that they are on the wrong path but we end up hitting a brickwall, now the irony of it is that when i argue with my parents and siblings on topics like evolution, i end up hitting the same brickwall we onced faced against the christian family friends.

"I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #44 - April 06, 2011, 06:23 PM

q
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #45 - April 07, 2011, 12:53 AM

Quote from: Hassan on April 06, 2011, 09:09 AM
I see, well in that case I am most grateful that you grace us half-witted with your presence and shall never complain that your nuggets of wisdom have to extracted from a rock face of salacious prattle.

Though I'm curious about what motivates you to such selfless charity when the cost to your great mind is such tedium?

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- Mount A Bison
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #46 - April 07, 2011, 07:20 PM

^ Isn't the danger of opening your mouth so wide that I might put something in there which might be stiff? Think about it 'cause I haven't.
- Abdillahi
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Re: Are Rational Arguments Just a Waste of Time?
Reply #47 - April 10, 2011, 08:46 PM

^

Through Logic, truth can be ascertained.
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