Impotent Cosmogony

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #30 - April 10, 2011, 11:14 PM

I have enough love for yasawi to make up for all your losses

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #31 - April 10, 2011, 11:26 PM

Quote from: z10 on April 10, 2011, 11:14 PM
I have enough love for yasawi to make up for all your losses

z10 ... I am worried about you loosing hair... Sufi with Hairless head gets beaten by public

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #32 - April 10, 2011, 11:26 PM

It's a good thing I'm not a sufi then

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #33 - April 10, 2011, 11:29 PM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 10, 2011, 11:13 PM
^ I see your love for yeez is fading fast too. We must talk.

I love the guy. There's a gem in every post. Something to laugh at in every post, something to puzzle at, something to smile at... he's by far the cutest thing on this forum (and you take some beating on that count).

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #34 - April 10, 2011, 11:33 PM

Those are moderating things to say, z10 and musivore, but you are not helping that yeezevee who's contemplating virtual suicide for his family.

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #35 - April 10, 2011, 11:33 PM

Quote from: z10 on April 10, 2011, 11:26 PM
It's a good thing I'm not a sufi then

Huh! then why are you filling the forum with silly question that people pull the hair to figure out answers? I think you don't know that you have sufi mindset Z10.. So to the keep hair on your head Stop thinking rubbish.. Cosmogeny..cosmology.. mundane useless philosophy., I tell you this much., without your hair you will be like this guy .. No girl friends ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9dhMzNGwo0

It doesn't matter however good you are in singing..

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #36 - April 10, 2011, 11:44 PM

e
Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 10, 2011, 11:33 PM
Those are moderating things to say, z10 and musivore, but you are not helping that yeezevee who's contemplating virtual suicide for his family.

Lol alex. But as you already know, nothing we can possibly do or say would change yez in the slightest, or deviate him from the course he is set upon.

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #37 - April 10, 2011, 11:53 PM

If we have no power over him, can we at least explain him, you think?

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #38 - April 11, 2011, 08:10 AM

Alex: Never. Humankind is more likely to find a valid answer to the conundrum posed by z10 in this thread, before it is able to shed any light on the enigma that is Yeezevee.

Yezeevee: if you’re following this, I hope you don’t take any offense in what I am saying. From what I have seen of you so far, everything seems to bounce off you anyways; so I don’t really think there is any danger of anyone getting to you?

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #39 - April 11, 2011, 10:22 AM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on April 10, 2011, 11:53 PM
If we have no power over him, can we at least explain him, you think?

Alex, I will listen to you and you have the power over me .. Please explain the logic. take it easy Z10 I was just kidding about that sufi singing. I like their songs and sonnets.

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #40 - April 11, 2011, 06:59 PM

Quote from: musivore on April 11, 2011, 08:10 AM
From what I have seen of you so far, everything seems to bounce off you anyways; so I don’t really think there is any danger of anyone getting to you?

No..no.. musivore., you are wrong, there are some people who have the abilities to get me and some times they do get me., But if I am wrong, they have the right to get me., And If I am right I will stick to my guns. Off course i do think quite often by putting myself in to their shoes.

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #41 - April 11, 2011, 07:27 PM

In that case, I apologise if I've said anything out of turn.

But I've seen you exchange blows, almost on a daily basis, with debunker and alex. Through it all, your mood and humour seem completely unaffected... But I'll try to remember, from now on, that even cheeky gremlins have feelings.

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #42 - April 11, 2011, 07:35 PM

Quote from: musivore on April 11, 2011, 07:27 PM
In that case, I apologise if I've said anything out of turn.

No..No No apologies needed., That is WRONG musivore., If you get upset by reading what I write and If write wrong you must hit hard... ., Otherwise Smart people will become Prophets. You got to be careful there., Criticism is the best way of advancing and understanding a problem..
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But I've seen you exchange blows, almost on a daily basis, with debunker and alex. Through it all, your mood and humour seem completely unaffected...

Oh well., they get what they deserve and I get what I deserve lol..
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But I'll try to remember, from now on, that even cheeky gremlins have feelings.

Off course., lol.. without humor and without cheekyness it is hard to survive for people like me .. But no need to remember anything, So keep it up and if you see something you don't like HIT HARD.. lol.. after all it is web..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #43 - April 11, 2011, 07:42 PM

Thanks yezeevee, that's good advice. That I will remember.

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #44 - April 12, 2011, 12:42 AM

It is a question we are nowhere near capable of answering yet. Some of these theories were never supposed to answer the question. But what they might be is building blocks for an eventual answer. Or stepping stones to an eventual answer.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #45 - April 12, 2011, 08:41 PM

I don't know if they even qualify as stepping stones.
When looking for a theory that can explain the origin of the physical cosmos, we need something that will not include physical parameters within its own argument because then we are explaining something by means of itself. It is for this reason that I feel all these physical theories (while fantastic theories to explain the evolution and fluctuation of the history and future of the cosmos) can say nothing about its cause and if they do, they will just go around in circles.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #46 - April 12, 2011, 08:47 PM

Well, it is for similar reasons I suspect you'll never see the answer.

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #47 - April 12, 2011, 08:50 PM

I can live with never seeing the right answer, my friend.
I can't live with seeing wrong answers though.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #48 - April 12, 2011, 08:59 PM

For sure, but those theories were not offered into a competition to win first prize. They are honest individual efforts to map out patterns in this universe, to establish a more stable and practical interface with it, to give us better predictive and explanatory power, so that we might understand it more, and perhaps eventually even answer the question of all questions.

You'll have to wait for a theory of everything.

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #49 - April 12, 2011, 10:31 PM

If you don't know what the right answer is, how are you sure that answers you have seen are the wrong answers?

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #50 - April 18, 2011, 05:50 AM

Hmm , when I was little kid I used to be rascal and a good runner ., I used pinch friends and run away . Now what is with Z10?? he always puts out some funny words in to his posts?? I feel like hitting on his head for NO GOOD REASON except to give headache to him., So here are some snipets of z10 posts

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"I can live with never seeing the right answer, my friend.
I can't live with seeing wrong answers though. "

"I don't know if they even qualify as stepping stones."

" Everything that exists is natural. Experience exists. Therefore, Experience is a natural phenomenon of the universe. Physicalism is commited to a thesis called Emergence. This is the thesis that experience was created by non-experiential matter. However, brute emergence of this kind is impossible. You cannot get subjective phenomena by combining objective phenomena. Therefore, combining 3 and 5 you get, All matter is experiential in some sense or other (which is panpsychism)."

"Take a red neck, inject them with Islam and you have this piece of unadulterated arrogance masquerading as piety. Disgusting."

quran only or quran + hadith., its just a case of choosing your own poison...

"if it has nothing original to say and even what it does say can be easily and quite logically corrupted"[/i

So you will find plenty of such words in Z10's posts and z10 has this signature under his posts:
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That man alone is real who dares- Dares to see God face to face! --Allama Iqbal

And arX wrote some where
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"Scientists are knowledge-finders. Philosophers are knowledge-seekers with their thumbs up their arses."

and now I am pulling my hair to figure out, who is Philosopher & who is Not and How useful are they to the betterment of human society .

So write me something about Philosophers of the past dear Z10 and write me something about the life & contributions of Allama Iqbal to the betterment of the human society dear sufidopi.. lol..

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #51 - April 18, 2011, 06:35 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on April 12, 2011, 10:31 PM
If you don't know what the right answer is, how are you sure that answers you have seen are the wrong answers?

Well I outline what I think a theory of cosmogony should include, these considerations are not set in stone and I'm sure it's possible that I myself may decide upon different criteria depending on my ontological position.
What do you think a viable theory should be like?

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Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #52 - April 18, 2011, 06:49 AM

Quote from: yeezevee on April 18, 2011, 05:50 AM
Hmm , when I was little kid I used to be rascal and a good runner ., I used pinch friends and run away . Now what is with Z10?? he always puts out some funny words in to his posts?? I feel like hitting on his head for NO GOOD REASON except to give headache to him., So here are some snipets of z10 posts
So you will find plenty of such words in Z10's posts and z10 has this signature under his posts:And arX wrote some where and now I am pulling my hair to figure out, who is Philosopher & who is Not and How useful are they to the betterment of human society .

So write me something about Philosophers of the past dear Z10 and write me something about the life & contributions of Allama Iqbal to the betterment of the human society dear sufidopi.. lol..

I don't know if it's necessary for Allama Iqbal to have done something for 'the betterment of the human society' for me to appreciate his poetry. In another sense, one can say that eery great piece of poetry adds significance to the human condition beyond any material gains, but that's just the romantic in me speaking.

There is too much to write about philosophers in the past. I don't know everything about it either. However, what would you like to know?

arX's quote is funny, but I have to respectfully disagree with the sentiment. I do not think science and philosophy should be opposed, nor do I think science needs to be disparaged for philosophy to be held as superior. I do, however, think science has nothing to say about questions of the Truth and nor should it - it is not science's business to find Truths, only to postulate falsifiable hypotheses on the basis of observable phenomena. Ontological and metaphysical questions of Truth are purely the realm of philosophy.
I understand that this is an unpopular view, but I think the correct understanding of science can only lead to such a situation. If science starts to try and postulate answers to metaphysical questions then it runs the risk of overstepping its own methodology.
Ofcourse, the other point, and this is necessary to note, science is not a perfect schema by which to articulate phenomenal observations, it has its own dogmas and limitations.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #53 - April 18, 2011, 07:10 AM

Quote from: z10 on April 18, 2011, 06:49 AM
I don't know if it's necessary for Allama Iqbal to have done something for 'the betterment of the human society' for me to appreciate his poetry. In another sense, one can say that eery great piece of poetry adds significance to the human condition beyond any material gains, but that's just the romantic in me speaking.

STOP that romanticism z10., be practical .. too much philosophy in life puts you in to troubles unless you are over 70.
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There is too much to write about philosophers in the past. I don't know everything about it either. However, what would you like to know?

You are right, there are too many of them out, I was not clear there., i was thinking about the guys that were born before 7th century

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I do, however, think science has nothing to say about questions of the Truth and nor should it - it is not science's business to find Truths, only to postulate falsifiable hypotheses on the basis of observable phenomena.

why do you say that? Science is in the business of finding the truth on a given subject. Yes you postulate and you work on it and if some one gets -ve results on the basis of experiments then you modify the postulation and redo the experiments.
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Ontological and metaphysical questions of Truth are purely the realm of philosophy.

This metaphysical thing always gets me in to trouble give me some metaphysical phenomenon that you think need to be explored in detail z10.....a good pdf file to read..
http://www.bergen.edu/phr/121/vasubandhugc.pdf

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #54 - April 18, 2011, 10:10 AM

Quote from: z10 on April 18, 2011, 06:35 AM
Well I outline what I think a theory of cosmogony should include, these considerations are not set in stone and I'm sure it's possible that I myself may decide upon different criteria depending on my ontological position.
What do you think a viable theory should be like?

Not sure. Bloody baffling is my bet.

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Re: Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #55 - April 29, 2011, 07:32 PM

Sorry for not replying to you earlier yasawi.

Quote from: yeezevee on April 18, 2011, 07:10 AM
STOP that romanticism z10., be practical .. too much philosophy in life puts you in to troubles unless you are over 70.

What is being practical? Not reading poetry and appreciating beauty? What's so good about that? What's so good about anything if it doesn't have beauty?

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You are right, there are too many of them out, I was not clear there., i was thinking about the guys that were born before 7th century

Well there are a lot of those too. One could mention all the greek philosophers and all the mystics that lived before the 7th century. Right from Pythagoras all the way through to Proclus in the 5th. I believe they all made valuable contributions to philosophy.

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why do you say that? Science is in the business of finding the truth on a given subject. Yes you postulate and you work on it and if some one gets -ve results on the basis of experiments then you modify the postulation and redo the experiments.

I hold to an instrumentalist position on science. This is the definition of instrumentalism from wiki (which I agree with):

"In the philosophy of science, instrumentalism is the view that a scientific theory is a useful instrument in understanding the world. A concept or theory should be evaluated by how effectively it explains and predicts phenomena, as opposed to how accurately it describes objective reality.

Instrumentalism avoids the realism / anti-realism debate, and may be better characterised as non-realism. Instrumentalism shifts the basis of evaluation away from whether or not phenomena observed actually exist, and towards an analysis of whether the results and evalution fit with observed phenomena."

Thus, science is not in the business of finding the Truth, but only in finding useful theories that conform to the appearance of observable phenomena.

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This metaphysical thing always gets me in to trouble give me some metaphysical phenomenon that you think need to be explored in detail z10.....a good pdf file to read..
http://www.bergen.edu/phr/121/vasubandhugc.pdf

Thank you for the pdf, I'll take a look. There are a number of metaphysical phenomena that need to be accounted for. My personal interest is of the mind/ body problem or as it now known 'The Hard Problem of consciousness' and I believe this problem is a purely metaphysical issue that can only be solved through philosophical reasoning and creation of concepts rather than through empirical means.

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Impotent Cosmogony
Reply #56 - February 14, 2015, 10:50 PM

Quote from: osmanthus on April 08, 2011, 06:59 AM
Ok.
It doesn't just apply to mathematics. It applies to any application of any logical process.

Useful to note that first order logic has the completeness theorem property.
Higher orders are where the real mindfuck begins.

My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
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