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Theme Changer

 Topic: Infinite universe and alien life

 (Read 4032 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Infinite universe and alien life
     OP - April 19, 2011, 05:22 PM

    The universe is infinite in terms of space and time. Do you think this implies existence of alien consciousness/ life at some point in time and galaxy far far away
    Or existence of life is one off event and there is just empty space with no life other than we have here right now right here on this planet.

    I know you must have seen this type of question many times before but I am thinking in terms of like 10000000000000000000000000000000s of years later and 10000000000000000000000000000000 of light years away
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #1 - April 19, 2011, 05:30 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlikCebQSlY

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #2 - April 19, 2011, 05:42 PM

    Wow Ishina you were able to pull out the most relevant video with speed of light. Thanks for sharing Smiley
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #3 - April 19, 2011, 05:46 PM

    I like to think there are far greater phenomena than life out there.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #4 - April 19, 2011, 05:50 PM

    I like to think there are far greater phenomena than life out there.


    Interesting..
    Like what can you imagine?
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #5 - April 19, 2011, 05:57 PM

    It's the stuff I can't imagine that I really want to see Tongue
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #6 - April 19, 2011, 06:00 PM

    Wow Ishina you were able to pull out the most relevant video with speed of light. Thanks for sharing Smiley

    I’m a Carl Sagan fangurl.

    It's worth pointing out that Sagan was only estimating the number of possible technological civilizations in our galaxy, the Milky Way galaxy. There are roughly 200 billion galaxies in the observable universe, depending on who you ask. The probability that there is life out there is good. We don't even know if there is extraterrestrial life within our own planetary system yet.

    Some more info on Drake's Equation:

    Quote
    "What do we need to know about to discover life in space?"

    How can we estimate the number of technological civilizations that might exist among the stars? While working as a radio astronomer at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Green Bank, West Virginia, Dr. Frank Drake (currently on the Board of the SETI Institute) conceived an approach to bound the terms involved in estimating the number of technological civilizations that may exist in our galaxy. The Drake Equation, as it has become known, was first presented by Drake in 1961 and identifies specific factors thought to play a role in the development of such civilizations. Although there is no unique solution to this equation, it is a generally accepted tool used by the scientific community to examine these factors.
    --Frank Drake, 1961


    The equation is usually written:
    N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L

    Where,

    N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.

    R* =The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.

    fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.

    ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.

    fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.

    fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.

    fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.

    L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

    Within the limits of our existing technology, any practical search for distant intelligent life must necessarily be a search for some manifestation of a distant technology. In each of its last four decadal reviews, the National Research Council has emphasized the relevance and importance of searching for evidence of the electromagnetic signature of distant civilizations.

    Besides illuminating the factors involved in such a search, the Drake Equation is a simple, effective tool for stimulating intellectual curiosity about the universe around us, for helping us to understand that life as we know it is the end product of a natural, cosmic evolution, and for making us realize how much we are a part of that universe. A key goal of the SETI Institute is to further high quality research that will yield additional information related to any of the factors of this fascinating equation.


    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #7 - April 19, 2011, 06:05 PM

    Me and Jay were disccusing about alien life yesterday =o. There very well mabye life in the glisea 581 system.  Gliesa 581 C is an earth like planet though its much bigger then the earth. And gliesa 581g is also in the haptiable zone. I am sure jay will come here and correct me if i said anything wrong. I am pretty sure gliesa 581 orbits a red dwarf star also its the 4th planet in the solor system.

    I am quite certin that life eixsits there.




    The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars. [Carl Sagan]

    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #8 - April 19, 2011, 06:08 PM

    "he probability that there is life out there is good. We don't even know if there is extraterrestrial life within our own planetary system yet."

    Oh yes like ishina said there very well be life in our solors system on beneth the surface of the statlites such as Europa and Titan.




    The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars. [Carl Sagan]

    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #9 - April 19, 2011, 06:38 PM

    However big the universe gets, it's not infinite. Figuratively, it's very big indeed. We've got 4 places within the solar system which can easily support microbial life.

    We have discovered many ways in which self-sustaining RNA arise naturally. That's not a "one off" phenomenon, it's just simple chemistry. But one factor is special, the continuous survival of these RNA to form more complex structures for a long period of time. That might not be very common, but given the vast variety of ecospheres that exist in the universe, it's very likely that there is one or more places which are more nurturing for these RNA. So, microbial life may be very common, indeed.

    When you talk about intelligent life, things get complicated. Firstly, super-human intelligence is not favoured by natural selection. We just have to look around ourselves, an animal as complex as a chicken is doing sufficiently well with the level of intelligence it has. Still, there could be lots of cases where an intelligent civilization does come about, but it doesn't live long enough to attain radio technology. There have been 5 mass extinctions in the history of our planet, in one event 96% of life on the planet perished. There could be places where intelligent civilizations can survive long enough to attain technology, as soon as they do that, it's very probable that the civilization could self-destruct by technological means long before they become a space fairing civilization. The human species has only been around for 200,000 years, and that's a blink of an eye even on geological time scales, there has been at least one case where we've come close to wiping ourselves out. Furthermore, we've only been technologically capable for only a few centuries. That's merely seconds on cosmological time scales, the universe is 13.7 billion years old.

    So, conceptually that gives a us a very limited window of time in which a possible intelligent civilization can exist. It's one way to look at Fermi's question "where are they?". I think, life is common in the universe, even some "intelligent life" like small critters maybe. But I am pretty sure that microbial life is very common in our galaxy not just all of the universe. When we talk about searching for life, we can only meaning fully do it within our galaxy for now. All of this in JUST ONE GALAXY. There are probably billions of galaxies out there, currently we don't have the capability to search for life on those galaxies. Our galaxy is pretty big, and it has tons of stars. We only found the first planet outside of the solar system back in the 90s. Now, we're finding them in greater numbers than ever before. So, we're still searching our own house, and there's lots of places to look at before we venture out.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #10 - April 19, 2011, 06:52 PM

    Me and Jay were disccusing about alien life yesterday =o. There very well mabye life in the glisea 581 system.  Gliesa 581 C is an earth like planet though its much bigger then the earth. And gliesa 581g is also in the haptiable zone. I am sure jay will come here and correct me if i said anything wrong. I am pretty sure gliesa 581 orbits a red dwarf star also its the 4th planet in the solor system.

    I am quite certin that life eixsits there.


    Yes, even the planets which are not in the habitable zones, might have moons which are habitable. We only take into account the planets, and forget that those planets may have moons. Besides our planet and Mars, the moons of the solar system are far more interesting in terms of biology than any other planet.

    Speaking of the Gliese 581 system, there are 2 super earth sized planets there, one of them is Gliese 581 d which orbits further out than Gliese 581 g. If Gliese 581 d has a moon or moons, they would most likely be as habitable as the Gliese 581 g.  But unfortunately, we don't have the technology yet to detect those moons, it's something we might have in the near future.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #11 - April 19, 2011, 09:08 PM

    As soon as I saw this thread I knew it was for you GRB. Oh, how I love reading your posts. The depth of your knowledge and your passion never ceases to amaze me. Are you sure you won’t reconsider my offer of a night together, under the stars, holding hands until the beautiful sunrise awakens us from our respective lusts (yours for the stars and galaxies and quasars, and mine for your beautiful mind). Oh, do consider please GRB? What I lack in knowledge and aptitude, I more than make up for in passion and loyalty.

    Anyways, I have a stray question on the post of yours on intelligent life. I remember reading a book on this subject by Nick Lane (Power, Sex, Suicide) and in it he outlines the important role that mitochondria play in helping complex life to develop. In particular, he argues that eukaryotic cells could never have arisen had it not been for a complete fluke whereby one bacterial cell swallowed another, and the two cells then found a way to co-exist in a way that proved to be a mutually beneficial relationship. One of these cells became the powerhouse for the other, and thus eventually became the mitochondria of the eukaryotic cell. This merger subsequently allowed cells and then organisms to become ever more complex, until eventually, hey presto, here we are (and where we are exactly is one imbecile trying to type out a legible question, in order to try to engage with his far superior master).

    Anyways, the crux of his argument was that bacterial life existed for billions of years, without evolving into complex multi-cellular life. And it would have continued to exist in this simple manner had it not been for the complete fluke of the merger between the two bacterial cells and the subsequent development of mitochondria. He states that the chances of this event occurring were miniscule and therefore the chances of them ever occurring again are also infinitely small. Because of this, intelligent life is far less likely to occur elsewhere than many people imagine. Single-celled bacteria will be widespread throughout the universe, but this will probably not be the case for intelligent life. My question, finally, oh lovable scientist, is this: what’s your opinion on what Mr Lane has to say? Has his book left more of an impression on my mind than I should have ever allowed it to?

    Hi
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #12 - April 19, 2011, 09:46 PM

    I've been thinking about reading that book, he also claims that mitochondria is responsible for sex, no? I'm not sure how plausible the rest of the scientific community find those ideas.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #13 - April 19, 2011, 10:49 PM

    Yes he does make that claim about sex and the ageing process also, but I can't remember exactly what his arguments there were. All I can say is that everything sounded very plausible to me, but that doesn't mean much... He received many favourable reviews from reputable sources, although these could obviously have been taken out of context. In the least, his book is very thought provoking.

    I'd urge you to read it Prince. It'd be good to know what someone as well-read as you makes of it all.

    Hi
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #14 - April 20, 2011, 12:26 AM

    Anyways, I have a stray question on the post of yours on intelligent life. I remember reading a book on this subject by Nick Lane (Power, Sex, Suicide) and in it he outlines the important role that mitochondria play in helping complex life to develop. In particular, he argues that eukaryotic cells could never have arisen had it not been for a complete fluke whereby one bacterial cell swallowed another, and the two cells then found a way to co-exist in a way that proved to be a mutually beneficial relationship. One of these cells became the powerhouse for the other, and thus eventually became the mitochondria of the eukaryotic cell. This merger subsequently allowed cells and then organisms to become ever more complex, until eventually, hey presto, here we are (and where we are exactly is one imbecile trying to type out a legible question, in order to try to engage with his far superior master).

    Anyways, the crux of his argument was that bacterial life existed for billions of years, without evolving into complex multi-cellular life. And it would have continued to exist in this simple manner had it not been for the complete fluke of the merger between the two bacterial cells and the subsequent development of mitochondria. He states that the chances of this event occurring were miniscule and therefore the chances of them ever occurring again are also infinitely small. Because of this, intelligent life is far less likely to occur elsewhere than many people imagine. Single-celled bacteria will be widespread throughout the universe, but this will probably not be the case for intelligent life. My question, finally, oh lovable scientist, is this: what’s your opinion on what Mr Lane has to say? Has his book left more of an impression on my mind than I should have ever allowed it to?


    It would be the case if life only forms and functions the way it does on our planet throughout the universe. With every new place which has microbial life similar to ours, the odds of this event happening goes up even if the probability of this happening is very low. If this event occurs only once in a galaxy, then we should have more than a billion places where multicellular life can occur the way it did here. There could be some places where this process may be a form of competition. However, this can be one way life which is more similar to ours gets more complex. But there can be other ways, too.

    Perhaps life in other places relies on other mechanisms, it might not even have cells which are similar to us. It might not use ATP to store energy. It might be based on something entirely different than life on our planet is based on, maybe more methane centric. They could rely on something which enables them to be more efficient than life on our planet is. What are these processes? Well, I don't know. It could be anything, we're still learning a lot about life on our planet and finding it where it shouldn't be. So just think what could be out there in the universe. Life on our planet is still surprising us, just think what life in the universe can do.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #15 - April 20, 2011, 07:20 AM

    I noticed that you ignored the first part of my post GRB. Wise that. It is better to ignore a mans advances, and to chip away at his determination that way, then to break his heart outright. I admire your sensitivity towards me. This way, I live to love another day...

    But hey, thanks for putting the 'miracle' of life into a better perspective for me. What you said makes a lot of sense.

    Hi
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #16 - April 20, 2011, 02:00 PM

    You're welcome.

    So, I came across this today. It suggests that plants on a planet in a binary system would have different colours, instead of the green we're so accustomed to seeing here. The colours of the plants would evolve to take advantage of the environment they are in. The simulations they ran showed that they might be black or grey. The grass could be darker on the other side.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #17 - April 20, 2011, 02:11 PM

    Thanks, very interesting. I’d always imagined ‘plants’ and ‘photosynthesis’ to be exclusive to the Earth. It would be disappointing to find that life outside the Earth has found the exact same solutions to the problems that the extraterrestrial environment would bestow on any existing lifeforms. To get to another planet, in a different solar system, and to find plants and grass there (albeit black) would be a huge disappointment to me. Surely the author of this article is suffering from a lack of imagination?

    Hi
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #18 - April 20, 2011, 02:46 PM

    Thanks, very interesting. I’d always imagined ‘plants’ and ‘photosynthesis’ to be exclusive to the Earth. It would be disappointing to find that life outside the Earth has found the exact same solutions to the problems that the extraterrestrial environment would bestow on any existing lifeforms. To get to another planet, in a different solar system, and to find plants and grass there (albeit black) would be a huge disappointment to me. Surely the author of this article is suffering from a lack of imagination?

    Not really, he's just looking at ways this process can evolve. The plants there might even look very different, the morphology of the "plants" would adept to their environment. Differences in pressure, temperature and chemical make up of the planet can all play a role in that.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #19 - April 20, 2011, 03:09 PM

     Afro Thanks for today's lesson.

    Let me know if you ever change you mind about those lessons in love Wink

    Hi
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #20 - April 20, 2011, 04:21 PM

    Yes he does make that claim about sex and the ageing process also, but I can't remember exactly what his arguments there were. All I can say is that everything sounded very plausible to me, but that doesn't mean much... He received many favourable reviews from reputable sources, although these could obviously have been taken out of context. In the least, his book is very thought provoking.

    I'd urge you to read it Prince. It'd be good to know what someone as well-read as you makes of it all.


     Cheesy I've read like 6 non-fiction books in my life Tongue I'm a late-comer to the reading party.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #21 - April 20, 2011, 05:00 PM

    In that case, we need to check you out thoroughly. It seems they may have implanted a chip of knowledge into your brain at birth: there can be no other explanation.

    Hi
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #22 - April 20, 2011, 07:23 PM

    Wow, GRB i must say i am enjoying your post recently(this aint a flattery though). Im learning something here, hope i will learn more.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #23 - April 21, 2011, 05:06 PM

    Wow, GRB i must say i am enjoying your post recently(this aint a flattery though). Im learning something here, hope i will learn more.

    Thanks, I suppose. I am glad you find them informative.
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #24 - April 21, 2011, 05:49 PM

    As soon as I saw this thread I knew it was for you GRB. Oh, how I love reading your posts. The depth of your knowledge and your passion never ceases to amaze me. Are you sure you won’t reconsider my offer of a night together, under the stars, holding hands until the beautiful sunrise awakens us from our respective lusts (yours for the stars and galaxies and quasars, and mine for your beautiful mind). Oh, do consider please GRB? What I lack in knowledge and aptitude, I more than make up for in passion and loyalty.

    Anyways, I have a stray question on the post of yours on intelligent life. I remember reading a book on this subject by Nick Lane (Power, Sex, Suicide) and in it he outlines the important role that mitochondria play in helping complex life to develop. In particular, he argues that eukaryotic cells could never have arisen had it not been for a complete fluke whereby one bacterial cell swallowed another, and the two cells then found a way to co-exist in a way that proved to be a mutually beneficial relationship. One of these cells became the powerhouse for the other, and thus eventually became the mitochondria of the eukaryotic cell. This merger subsequently allowed cells and then organisms to become ever more complex, until eventually, hey presto, here we are (and where we are exactly is one imbecile trying to type out a legible question, in order to try to engage with his far superior master).

    Anyways, the crux of his argument was that bacterial life existed for billions of years, without evolving into complex multi-cellular life. And it would have continued to exist in this simple manner had it not been for the complete fluke of the merger between the two bacterial cells and the subsequent development of mitochondria. He states that the chances of this event occurring were miniscule and therefore the chances of them ever occurring again are also infinitely small. Because of this, intelligent life is far less likely to occur elsewhere than many people imagine. Single-celled bacteria will be widespread throughout the universe, but this will probably not be the case for intelligent life. My question, finally, oh lovable scientist, is this: what’s your opinion on what Mr Lane has to say? Has his book left more of an impression on my mind than I should have ever allowed it to?



    the way that is worded (the bold) seems funny to me. I dont think its a matter of "if this did not happen , then such and such would never have happened." It's like saying that that the solar system is so finely tuned that if one thing was changed we would not have occured. It only seems that way to us.

    The swallowing of the ancestor to mitochondria by another cell was huge and the endosymbiotic relationship allowed both to prosper and thus here we are today. However, I think it's important to note that life off Earth does not have to follow the same trajectory that it does here. As Jay said, the same mechanisms don't have to be used (such as the use of ATP as a source of energy). Life off Earth may similar, but it may as well be completely "alien". We may not even notice it if we came across it.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #25 - April 21, 2011, 06:24 PM

    You and GRB seem to know what you're talking about, so I'll bow to your knowledge. And if my wording is funny, those are my crimes alone; it should not detract in any way from what Mr Lane is trying to say. It's been so long since I read the damn book that I probably haven't done him justice.

    Btw, and forgive me if I'm wrong on this, it seems you haven't been quite your bubbly self since winning JOTM. Was it such a humbling experience for you?

    Hi
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #26 - April 21, 2011, 06:29 PM

    Haha Tongue

    I haven't been as active lately!

    do you miss the ditzyness? cuz ya know, I can be ditzy if you want me to be darling.

    "If intelligence is feminine... I would want that mine would, in a resolute movement, come to resemble an impious woman."
  • Re: Infinite universe and alien life
     Reply #27 - April 21, 2011, 06:41 PM

    Yes I do. And blackdog has lost his partner in crime. He looks lost without you.

    Hi
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