Wayfarer

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- Wayfarer
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Wayfarer
OP - May 12, 2011, 12:59 AM

Hi to all forum members and friends,

I just joined this website after a period of contemplation on whether it would be a positive move or not. I finally thought to myself "why not go ahead and give it a try", and now that i have, it would be great to connect with a few people that may have gone through a similar experience as I and have come out the other side.
This is a brief introduction, so that people can get to know a little bit about who "Wayfarer" is. I'll try to keep everything extremely brief so as not to bore anyone.

My Background:
I converted to islam at a pretty young age under the guidance of a very loving Sufi guide.
Though, to be honest, I was a fundamentalist in personal-practices and rituals, I adhered to an extremely loving and mystical interpretation of islam (of the very sober variety, for those of you who know a bit about tasawwuf).
After a number of years, i decided to go to the Middle East and study Arabic and islamic studies, to try to "understand my deen and my Lord" better. This decision would ultimately force me to leave the religion.

The process of leaving something that you have given your whole life to is a very difficult process, as I'm sure many of you will be able to identify with. At first, I attempted to continue on with my life and studies, but ultimately it was impossible. I then attempted to return home and live a less complicated lie; by trying to live as i had before. This, however, also proved to be impossible.

I lost my dreams, my life, my friends and my wife.

Now:
After such ordeals, i notice that many people seem to become angry atheists, and then slightly mellowed atheists. I, personally, am neither; I still hold onto many of the Sufi ideals that i always espoused and practiced, though in a completely non-denominational manner.
The healing process was a living nightmare and took some time, but i was still quite young and so went back to university, graduated, and life goes on.

So yea, in a nutshell that's me
Wayfarer

PS... If anyone ever reads this and is going through something similar, or really any kind of difficult situation at all, and feels non-judgmental support or a friend may be of some use, please do feel completely free to contact me.
- Zaiba
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #1 - May 12, 2011, 01:16 AM

Welcome Wayfarer, interestingly short and touching story. Everyone here has been or is still fighting their own battle. Religion is a very difficult aspect of a persons life, and everyone deals with it at different paces.

My fight has been ongoing for a year an half, i've only just recently come out to my family, and the aftermath has been pretty enduring. I find that this place is great for letting down your hair, as well as your stresses, you'll find the most loveliest people here, with the most powerful moving stories, both motivational and inspirational.

Hope you enjoy your stay Wayfarer.

It's a custom to give n00bs a parrot.

So here's yours darling
- canex
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #2 - May 12, 2011, 02:16 AM

Wow an ex convert who actually went to the mid east to study arabic! now thats rare.

Welcome!

so what was it that u started studying in particular that started your doubts regarding islam ?

And also what was it about islam that attracted you in the first place ?

Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
- Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #3 - May 12, 2011, 02:20 AM

Hi Zaiba

Its great to meet you. I seen a few of your posts while browsing this site, and even commented on one a few minutes ago.
For years i have been attacked on the issue of being a muslim anymore, and believe it or not you are the first person ever to say something nice in this connection. So yea, i think that deserves a parrot for you too!

Here you go
- Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #4 - May 12, 2011, 02:33 AM

Hi Canex

nice to meet you friend

Originally what influenced me towards islam was the 'normal things' that converts report as their inspiration; eg of islam being a rational faith, science backing it up, no belief in a trinity, et cetra et cetra ad nauseum.
Added to this, the Sufi practices of dhikrUllah, sulook, karamaat of awliya, and really i was 100% sure that i had found the Truth.

What later pushed me away from it was reading ahadith such as on the issue Ghazwatul Khaybar, or about the issue of slavery including sex slaves, and when after seeking clarification on these issues from some of the biggest 3Ulema in the world to be told "of course a muslim can not rape his slaves..... they are just like his wives so how could there be any rape involved, even if she didn't consent?"

There were a lot of reasons why i could no longer believe, but i do not like to focus on them so much.
Nowadays I'm much more interested in focusing on ways that i can help others, rather than debate or fight them.
- Zaiba
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #5 - May 12, 2011, 02:34 AM

Aww that's well sweet of you. And i may be the first person to say something nice to you, but i assure you that i will not be last
- Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #6 - May 12, 2011, 02:52 AM

Aw thanks a lot sis

By the way, Bro Canex, i forgot to add, reverts going abroad isn't that uncommon. I met many in Madina, and there are a good few in Tarim, Damascus and Cairo too. Although im not sure about the last 2 nowadays, since the mini-revolutions going on there.
- luftazure
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #7 - May 12, 2011, 03:25 AM

Hey Wayfarer. I'm sorry about your losses.
Did something specific happen in your trip that caused you to take that decision?
And why do you say you lost your dreams? What were they?

Anyway I know how it feels to lose your way. You walk down the path of Islam, but something happens that tells you that it's not the right path. Then you figure out there is NO right path. You realize that you have to dig your own path. What is that path? It's the path to that point in life where you would be and be able to say to yourself: Mission accomplished!

I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
- hypocrucifier
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #8 - May 12, 2011, 04:48 AM

Welcome! Where are you from? What kind of fundamentalist beliefs did you have before your conversion?

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
- hypocrucifier
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #9 - May 12, 2011, 05:55 AM

Quote from: luftazure on May 12, 2011, 03:25 AM
Hey Wayfarer. I'm sorry about your losses.
Did something specific happen in your trip that caused you to take that decision?
And why do you say you lost your dreams? What were they?

Anyway I know how it feels to lose your way. You walk down the path of Islam, but something happens that tells you that it's not the right path. Then you figure out there is NO right path. You realize that you have to dig your own path. What is that path? It's the path to that point in life where you would be and be able to say to yourself: Mission accomplished!

You have figured out a great truth there!The ultimate truth shall never be known,the mission shall never be accomplished! In fact the day this happens life will end. People will literally be bored to death. In many ways it's the uncertainties of life that sustain it.
We shall forever tend to perfection without actually achieving it.When it comes to the brass tacks it's you and only you who can help yourself in selecting your path and charting your journey.

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
- Hikaru
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #10 - May 12, 2011, 07:15 AM

Welcome to CEMB Wayfarer

井の中の蛙大海を知らず。
(I no naka no kawazu taikai wo shirazu)
A frog in a well does not know the great sea.
- cosmicdancer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #11 - May 12, 2011, 08:54 AM

Welcome I still admire many elements of Sufism and the Sufi writings of people like Rumi and Ibn Arabi.
- luftazure
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #12 - May 12, 2011, 10:47 AM

Quote from: hypocrucifier on May 12, 2011, 05:55 AM
You have figured out a great truth there!The ultimate truth shall never be known,the mission shall never be accomplished! In fact the day this happens life will end. People will literally be bored to death. In many ways it's the uncertainties of life that sustain it.
We shall forever tend to perfection without actually achieving it.When it comes to the brass tacks it's you and only you who can help yourself in selecting your path and charting your journey.

When I look at what I wrote, I feel surprised that I was being so obvious. I guess I was just trying to be nice. Although, I do believe that there could be a point where you could think to yourself "this is perfect" if you're easier to please and not such a perfectionist.
Anyway I love what you said about the uncertainties of life. Al Mutanabbi said that if we knew the future, a late night chatter wouldn't sleep, or arise from his sleep thunderstruck. it's true.

I'm open for debate (of why we should re-/embrace Islam), but I will no longer participate in this forum. Message me if you need anything. Good luck and may you all find your way... again...
- Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #13 - May 12, 2011, 02:36 PM

Hey luftazure friend,
Nice to meet you

Quote from: luftazure on May 12, 2011, 03:25 AM
Did something specific happen in your trip that caused you to take that decision?

I saw many things, but i was always taught that i each person would be going to their own grave, and i still hold to that teaching. An old Buddhist teaching goes "it is easier to wear slippers than carpet the whole world", and i agree with this way of thinking.
What made me leave the religion was discovering things that the likes of hamza yusuf, habib ali al jifri or shaykh hisham al kabbani, and other modern 'moderate' scholars wouldn't be too keen on speaking about. That said i still have immense respect for these scholars. Not everyone is going to leave islam, nor should they have to, and these scholars are doing a great job of keeping people moderate. Hats off to them.

Quote from: luftazure on May 12, 2011, 03:25 AM
Anyway I know how it feels to lose your way. You walk down the path of Islam, but something happens that tells you that it's not the right path. Then you figure out there is NO right path. You realize that you have to dig your own path. What is that path? It's the path to that point in life where you would be and be able to say to yourself: Mission accomplished!

Ditto
Nicely put friend.
Although i might add that there is 2 ways to interpret what you have just said, namely nihilism and perennialism. I suspect most people on this site would think that there being no right path because there is nothing at all out there. I would completely accept your statement, on the other hand, as meaning that there is no right path, because there are many 'right paths'.

Peace friend
Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #14 - May 12, 2011, 02:51 PM

Quote from: hypocrucifier on May 12, 2011, 04:48 AM
What kind of fundamentalist beliefs did you have before your conversion?

Hi Hypo
well basically i used to strictly follow the fundamental practices, that's why i classed myself as such.
Big beards, burqas, jelabiyyas, turbans, no music, salat al layl, not shaking hands with women (though not thinking them less), never eating from restaurants that might cook halal in a pot where haram had been, no stepping inside bars, preferring company of other bearded folk.
You know, putting the FUN back in islamic FUNdamentalism (as Omid Djalili so eloquently put it).

but to qualify i was never a salafi, and i was never negative, angry or aggressive except to salafis.
This might give you a better idea of the difference http://www.youtube.com/user/sufilive#p/u/15/i08_WWaTgus

Peace friends
- musivore
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #15 - May 12, 2011, 04:39 PM

Hi

You sound like a really nice guy. It feels good to have you amongst us

I personally appreciate your offer of being there for anyone who is also going through difficult situations. I am currently having major issues with my wife, regarding my apostasy, and I do think that there is a chance I will take you up on your offer, if I need someone understanding to talk to. So, be on your guard, I could PM you anytime... I may even be very emotional when I do, so be ready for a lot of uncomfortable moments coming your way.

You may not want to share this, but what happened between you and your wife? Was your apostasy too much for her?

Hi
- Mount A Bison
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #16 - May 12, 2011, 04:50 PM

h
- musivore
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #17 - May 12, 2011, 05:00 PM

Why say that to the nice new guy MAB?

Hi
- Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #18 - May 12, 2011, 05:04 PM

Hey brother Musivore
It's great to finally speak to you, i have seen a few of your posts throughout the site. You seem a really candid and sincere guy and i appreciate that.

To answer the question in brief; yes, going from a 'student of deen' to a non-believer was a major shock for my wife. She was a really great person in her own right, but it's just all the conditioning and guilt that was there stopped her from being able to see that i was essentially the same human she had always known and loved.

Bro, feel free to message anytime you like, it would be a pleasure to talk to ya.
- Mount A Bison
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #19 - May 12, 2011, 05:05 PM

Quote from: musivore on May 12, 2011, 05:00 PM
Why say that to the nice new guy MAB?

Because the young buck is stealing all the girls from this old man. I will not compete for S with kids who are sixty years fitter and younger. I can tolerate you because your thirteen chins would never land a babe. But this new kid is serious competition. He must go.
- Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #20 - May 12, 2011, 05:06 PM

ah MAB
Great that you finally popped around... thought u might have decided to overlook me!
Don't worry, i could never compete against a stud like you.
- Mount A Bison
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #21 - May 12, 2011, 05:10 PM

h
- musivore
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #22 - May 12, 2011, 05:52 PM

Lol guys...

And thanks Wayfarer. Your description of your wife could easily be my description of mine. I'm sorry to hear that you guys couldn't find a way through.

Sometimes, other apostates find it difficult to understand how someone who seems to be driven by an archaic religion and a mediaeval way of life, can still be worthy of your love and respect. I feel you may understand me and my struggle better than most, so I do hope you stick around.

Hi
- Kenan
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #23 - May 12, 2011, 05:53 PM

Welcome Wayfarer!

You lost your wife as a result of your apostasy? Harsh.

Did you know that we have a resident Sufi shaykh here? This is a link to his blog: A Tailor’s Doctrine

Btw how long ago did you start lurking this place?
- Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #24 - May 12, 2011, 07:16 PM

Well i wasnt really lurking here too long Kenan
Just a couple of days really
But from time to time i did stuff like type "apostate islam" into google and see the sites that came up.... but it just wasn't my cup of tea to sit around bashing and hating. This forum though seemed to have a bit more of a mixed membership, so i just thought id make the dive .

I have seen a post or 2 of tailor's today, thanks for introducing me to the blog though bro

Oh yea, and thanks for the welcome
- Mount A Bison
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #25 - May 12, 2011, 07:23 PM

k
- Kenan
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #26 - May 12, 2011, 07:40 PM

Quote from: Mount A Bison on May 12, 2011, 07:23 PM
Be very mindful of Kenan. He's a registered sex offender.

That is a lie.

Police has got nothing on me ...

@Wayfarer
Be very mindful of MAB. He is well known for soliciting sex over Skype.
- Mount A Bison
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #27 - May 12, 2011, 07:53 PM

l
- Wayfarer
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #28 - May 12, 2011, 09:33 PM

Haha MAB you know i was just thinking about it, and all you would need to do is throw a bit more Nadsat into your little soliloquies and i'd almost think i was watching a recreation of Alex from A Clockwork Orange

Good show old boy, good show!
- Mount A Bison
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Re: Wayfarer
Reply #29 - May 12, 2011, 09:39 PM

o
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