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Theme Changer

 Poll

  • Question: Which one (if any) are you more inclined to side with? (Give reasons)
  • Israel - 50 (30.5%)
  • Palestine - 114 (69.5%)
  • Total Voters: 163

 Topic: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?

 (Read 231869 times)
  • Previous page 1 ... 6 7 89 10 ... 39 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #210 - August 11, 2011, 02:25 PM

    Ok yeezevee and if Islam could be taken out of the equation I would certainly do so but I'm not convinced that would stop Israeli policies either. Take out judaism too, take out all religions.


    btw I love that monkey.   Cheesy

    Edit: Ah I see you also replied in a similar vein Hassan.  Afro


    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #211 - August 11, 2011, 03:42 PM

    You don't seriously think that if you only take Islam out of the equation, Israel would be a paradise of peace, equality and brotherhood between Arabs and Jews?

    If you take Islam out of the equation, I am not sure about JUICE PARADISE but I can assure you Palestinian Paradise  Hassan..  It will be paradise in comparison to what it is there now.   You must realize Juice/Christians and Arab Pagans were living and loving each other from Algeria to Azerbaijan  before Islam  and that includes the Sand Land, The citadel of Islam.

    Quote
    If you said take Islam, Judaism, Christianity and beliefs of racial superiority and God-given-rights - out of the equation - you would be nearer the mark.

    Take Islam out of it Judaism, Christianity automatically gets nullified.  Juice themselves will come out of that Haredi Judaism

    As far as Christians and RACIST Christians are concerned show them the CROSS and  educate them the actions of Christ ., other wise tell them to get nailed to Cross for helping their neighbors irrespective of their religion..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #212 - August 11, 2011, 04:49 PM

    Ahhh... I see. The problem is only Islam.

    Islam is even to blame for fanatical and racist Jews.

    If it wasn't for Islam the Jews would would have hugged and kissed the Arabs in Deir Yassin instead of massacring the men, women and children.

    Got it!

    btw Yeezee could you please stop saying "Juice".
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #213 - August 11, 2011, 09:41 PM

    Ahhh... I see. The problem is only Islam.

    Islam is even to blame for fanatical and racist Jews.

    If it wasn't for Islam the Jews would would have hugged and kissed the Arabs in  Deir Yassin instead of massacring the men, women and children.

    those juice that are racist are no Jews but Yes Islam is responsible   and as far as 1948 Deir Yassin  massacre of Muslim folks is concerned. It is the combination factors and direct result of ISLAMIC LEADERS OF THAT TIME  Such as this one





    When Jewish young men remember what happened to them and their families in that Hitleronian times , Things go out of hand and some juice turn in to violent monkeys.  You must realize that it is Islamic leadership, Jihad & Allah verses along with Hadith that is squarely responsible for SOME juice turning in to baboons..

    More Over you must realize during that time Jewish folks were also massacred by Muslim Baboons

    Such as Killing  Jewish civilians  Ben Yehuda Street, Jerusalem., In that 1948 Palestine war  Both sides shed enough blood
    Quote
    On 14 May 1948, David Ben-Gurion declared the independence of the state of Israel. Within hours, two Egyptian columns with air cover entered southern Israel, while fighting erupted in Jerusalem and on the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway, where Israeli forces captured two Arab villages and the city of Acre. Two Egyptian Air Force Spitfires bombed Tel Aviv. One of them was shot down and its pilot taken prisoner. Arab forces captured the Israeli kibbutz of Kfar Etzion and massacred its inhabitants.[42] Numerous settlements in the Negev and Galilee were isolated and exposed to Arab attack on all sides, and had to rely on their own armories for defense. The hastily mobilized Israeli Army had to engage in offensive actions to remove Arab forces from key positions, block the advance of their columns, and rush to seal gaps in Israel's defenses.[43]

    Over the next few days, approximately 1,000 Lebanese, 5,000 Syrian, 5,000 Iraqi, and 10,000 Egyptian troops (initial numbers) invaded the newly established state.


    Quote
    Got it!

    btw Yeezee could you please stop saying "Juice".

     don't worry about that word Hassan  it will go way itself at a right time.   So please don't get in to these Massacres.. Islam with its theology had done lot more killings & massacres  than any other religious book/its theology has  ever did in the history of mankind. You can start with Banu Qurayza jewsih folks of Arabia  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #214 - August 11, 2011, 09:58 PM

    Yeezee, you say: "Yes Islam is responsible" for the Jews who massacred the civilians in Deir Yassin and then prattle on about Muslims who supported Hitler or how many atrocities Muslims have caused.

    Please Yeezee, can't you see you are doing exactly what Muslims do when they try to justify atrocities by Muslims by blaming Israel, USA etc...

    I want you to try and think carefully about what I'm going to say next:

    Nothing justifies the slaughter of innocent people.

    Nor is this about who has killed more.

    You seem to think the whole problem in Palestine is caused by Islam - and Islam alone - even the massacre of innocent men women and children by Jewish terrorists.

    Now, bearing in mind I don't believe in Islam, I criticise Islam and I fully accept Islam is a cause of a great deal of the problems in Palestine. All I am saying is that it is not the "ONLY" cause and that if we could get rid of all religions in that part of the world and people saw each other as simply fellow human beings - without all this God-given-right shit, there would be a much better chance of peace.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #215 - August 11, 2011, 10:04 PM


    OK, rant over -

    I  know you don't believe in Islam
    I know you don't like war fares and blood spilling of Muslims and non Muslims
    I know like me,  you are also  related to Muslims.. and May be you were more Islamic than yeezevee ever  was as shiat..
     
    I understand you but I write what write and I write for the readers of CEMB not just as a response to you ..
    Quote
    ur back on ignore now.

    Goood Hassan..

     so far you ignored me 100s of times and also  you read all comments that I write..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #216 - August 25, 2011, 02:07 PM

    Yeezee, you say: "Yes Islam is responsible" for the Jews who massacred the civilians in Deir Yassin and then prattle on about Muslims who supported Hitler or how many atrocities Muslims have caused.

    Please Yeezee, can't you see you are doing exactly what Muslims do when they try to justify atrocities by Muslims by blaming Israel, USA etc...

    I want you to try and think carefully about what I'm going to say next:

    Nothing justifies the slaughter of innocent people.

    Nor is this about who has killed more.

    You seem to think the whole problem in Palestine is caused by Islam - and Islam alone - even the massacre of innocent men women and children by Jewish terrorists.

    Now, bearing in mind I don't believe in Islam, I criticise Islam and I fully accept Islam is a cause of a great deal of the problems in Palestine. All I am saying is that it is not the "ONLY" cause and that if we could get rid of all religions in that part of the world and people saw each other as simply fellow human beings - without all this God-given-right shit, there would be a much better chance of peace.


     clap   thnkyu

    Teach us to care and not to care / Teach us to sit still.
    What do we live for; if it is not to make life less difficult to each other
    You are the music while the music lasts.
    T.S.Eliot
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #217 - August 30, 2011, 12:57 AM

    I'm far too disillusioned with both sides to care about this conflict anymore. It's too emotionally draining. Here's who I'm for:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d_i2F2LlF8

    I voted pro-Israel, though. As someone who comes from a stiflingly anti-Semitic background (I used to go to a Palestinian school where we were taught that ALL Jews are evil and that it was our duty to kill ALL Jews -- and this was in grade 2), voting pro-Israel just underscores my commitment to the two-state solution and my firm support for Israel's right to exist, against those who wish to militarily eradicate it.

    Plus, I feel Jewish at heart. I love Israel -- the country, the culture, the people.

    It goes without saying that I find its current government's expansionist policies and human rights abuses morally abhorrent and repugnant -- but I feel that there's far too much demonization of Israel nowadays, and that has two harmful effects: - buries honest criticism of Israel's policies in hateful rhetoric, and - pushes Israel even further into extremism.

    (For those who're still interested in this conflict, I've always found Haaretz to be a very informative, balanced source of information and analysis on the conflict.)

    In a nutshell: Peace and two states.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #218 - August 30, 2011, 01:13 AM

    It goes without saying that I find its current government's expansionist policies and human rights abuses morally abhorrent and repugnant -- but I feel that there's far too much demonization of Israel nowadays, and that has two harmful effects: - buries honest criticism of Israel's policies in hateful rhetoric, and - pushes Israel even further into extremism.



    Its just not the current government its EVERY government! I agree that blaming "the Jews" for everything, conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world (which never originated in the muslim world btw) etc. as being harmful because a) its wrong and anti-Jewish thus racist and b) it does bury honest criticism of Israel by allowing its supporters to claim anti-Semitism. As for extremism.......the government is doing that itself because it is made up of racist, right-wing nutters. 
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #219 - August 30, 2011, 01:16 AM

    Well, Yitzhak Rabin's government got tantalizingly close to peace.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #220 - August 30, 2011, 01:25 AM

    Yeah and that was the only one. Rabin was no angel but he had political courage, and you see what that got him in the end.

    fuck you
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #221 - August 30, 2011, 01:29 AM

    It's hard to avoid falling into cynicism with this particular conflict, eh? That's why I choose to escape with my youthful innocence and optimism into an imaginary land of lemon orchards where Jewish and Muslim and Christian children play with each other, hug each other, love each other...

    ... so that when one day your bitter generation is dead, ours might be there to sift through the ruins and perhaps build a better tomorrow.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #222 - August 30, 2011, 03:29 AM

    ... so that when one day your bitter generation is dead, ours might be there to sift through the ruins and perhaps build a better tomorrow.


    We'll get you too my pretty. We always get em while they're still young.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #223 - August 30, 2011, 03:39 AM

    Anti-Arab sentiment in Israel:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb_vXaVKaMM

    Our results showed that 46 percent of our respondents were either mildly or strongly anti-Arab. When we broke these numbers down according to city, there were obvious regional differences. Jerusalem was by far the most anti-Arab of the five cities we visited, with 58 percent exhibiting some level of anti-Arab sentiment, while Haifa was the least with 32 percent. Interestingly, after Jerusalem, Tel Aviv was the city with the most anti-Arab sentiment (49 percent).

    The data we gathered substantiates the idea that anti-Arab sentiment is a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. Almost half of all the Jewish Israelis we spoke to exhibited some level of anti-Arab sentiment. The single most disturbing trend that emerged was the correlation between youth and strong anti-Arab sentiment.


    http://electronicintifada.net/content/video-survey-racism-rampant-among-israeli-youth/10286
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #224 - August 30, 2011, 03:47 AM

    It's hard to avoid falling into cynicism with this particular conflict, eh? That's why I choose to escape with my youthful innocence and optimism into an imaginary land of lemon orchards where Jewish and Muslim and Christian children play with each other, hug each other, love each other...

    ... so that when one day your bitter generation is dead, ours might be there to sift through the ruins and perhaps build a better tomorrow.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6axdZAxyt2g

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #225 - August 30, 2011, 11:04 AM

    It's hard to avoid falling into cynicism with this particular conflict, eh? That's why I choose to escape with my youthful innocence and optimism into an imaginary land of lemon orchards where Jewish and Muslim and Christian children play with each other, hug each other, love each other...

    ... so that when one day your bitter generation is dead, ours might be there to sift through the ruins and perhaps build a better tomorrow.


    Israeli and international radical left: Time for a divorce
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #226 - August 30, 2011, 02:06 PM

    From the article:

    Quote
    The depressing answer is we’re not dealing with leftist, but rather with Palestinian right-winger. They suffer from tunnel-vision: All they see is the occupation. As if there wasn’t an Israel beyond it, as if people did not live and breath and love and die here, who had other issues on their mind.

    The author argues that Palestinians can't see beyond their own experience yet is doing the exact same thing. Yes actually, as far as Palestinians' experiences go, Israel is an occupying force. Anything else is irrelevant.

    And to claim that the Israeli protesters were radical leftist, that's just laughable.

    The fact that this author wants a divorce of the Israeli "left" from the international left and that he doesn't give a crap about the occupation and wants to just ignore it shows that he's not a leftist at all. Really shows the nature of so-called Israeli "leftists".

    To clarify, I do believe there are true Israeli leftists, but they're very marginalized and unpopular. You can't be a leftist and want to be silent on the occupation based on the claim that it "divides the protest".
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #227 - August 30, 2011, 03:02 PM

    ... so that when one day your bitter generation is dead, ours might be there to sift through the ruins and perhaps build a better tomorrow.


    Ha! Your generation is even more fucked than mine. Maybe your kids will do better.

    To clarify, I do believe there are true Israeli leftists, but they're very marginalized and unpopular.


    I think that's overstating it a bit. There exists in Israel a redoubtable peace movement with organizations like Gush Shalom and the like-- and I'd argue they're a big part of the reason things aren't even worse for the Palestinians; I think their activity has slowed the growth of settlements and evictions of Palestinians. The sad part is that the US mainstream media almost never reports on this-- pretends like the Israeli peace movement doesn't exist. And Jesus, man, I can get a better picture of the atrocities happening to the Palestinians from reading Israeli dailies like Ha'aretz than from reading any mainstream US newspaper.

    Marginalized and unpopular? That's probably fair, but I'd drop the modifier "very" in front of it. Tongue

    fuck you
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #228 - August 30, 2011, 03:34 PM

    NO! We're better! finmad

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #229 - August 30, 2011, 04:18 PM

    Ha! Your generation is even more fucked than mine. Maybe your kids will do better.


    Actually, no, I'm interested to know why you think that is the case -- assuming you did not say that in jest.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #230 - August 30, 2011, 09:29 PM

    From the article:

    Quote
    The depressing answer is we’re not dealing with leftist, but rather with Palestinian right-winger. They suffer from tunnel-vision: All they see is the occupation. As if there wasn’t an Israel beyond it, as if people did not live and breath and love and die here, who had other issues on their mind.

    The author argues that Palestinians can't see beyond their own experience yet is doing the exact same thing. Yes actually, as far as Palestinians' experiences go, Israel is an occupying force. Anything else is irrelevant.

    And to claim that the Israeli protesters were radical leftist, that's just laughable.

    The fact that this author wants a divorce of the Israeli "left" from the international left and that he doesn't give a crap about the occupation and wants to just ignore it shows that he's not a leftist at all. Really shows the nature of so-called Israeli "leftists".

    To clarify, I do believe there are true Israeli leftists, but they're very marginalized and unpopular. You can't be a leftist and want to be silent on the occupation based on the claim that it "divides the protest".


    I don't think anyone is claiming that the protesters as a whole are radical leftists, more that some are and J14 gives them a space to operate and maybe have an influence on Israeli society that they wouldn't have without it. As I'm not Israeli or Palestinian I'll leave it to others to make the arguments.

    Such as this article by a veteran Israeli leftist: Akiva Orr on J14: “The longest journey starts with one small step”

    Or this: Arab-Israelis should find an ally in the Israeli tent protests

    Here's a less polemical take on J14 and the rift between Israeli and international activists

    Quote
    Former allies in fight against occupation are battling over the meaning of the tent protest. Can the relationship be rescued, and should it be?

    The tent protest, also known as J14, already had an effect on many groups in Israeli society, forcing them to re-examine their political positions and alliances. And while we have yet to see what comes out of this process, it is safe to say that in the last few weeks a new conversation has emerged.

    One of these developments, perhaps an unwelcome one, was a growing rift between Israeli left-wing activists and some progressive bloggers and writers outside Israel. These two groups have deepened their cooperation in recent years, usually around issues concerning the joint struggle against the occupation. In other cases, they were able to exchange information and help fight against anti-Palestinian rhetoric in the West (which is more and more often generated or sponsored in Jerusalem) and against political persecution in Israel proper.

    J14 revealed the limits of this cooperation. While most Israeli activists on the left welcomed the protest and were among the first to join it—often using it as a platform for a more general call for political change and justice that would include non-Jewish groups—the demonstrations were met with suspicion from pro-Palestinian activists and writers abroad. Some of them argued that J14 neglects the ethnic dimension of the political system in Israel and concentrates on benefits for the dominant Jewish group rather than on the rights of Palestinians, who are discriminated against west of the Green Line and oppressed to its east; and are subject to a mechanism of separation everywhere.

    Strange as it may seem, I tend to agree with both sides in this debate. I see great hope in J14, a tremendous opportunity, and yet I think it’s important to challenge it all the time on the Palestinian question. This will help the movement become an instrument for promoting true political justice in Israel, and protect it from shrinking to an internal debate within the Israeli elites over tax benefits and rent control.

    Even the writing on +972, while being done mostly by Israelis (only one of our regular bloggers is Palestinian) reflects this debate. See this recent piece by Joseph Dana and Max Blumenthal for one view of the protest, and Dimi Reider, Haggai Matar, Ami Kaufman and myself for others. And there was also this piece by Yossi Gurvitz, directed at “the international left”, which made many people angry, but at the same time, was shared (in its Hebrew version) by quite a few Israeli activists.

    Joseph and Max’s piece, and later Yossi’s, led to some fierce internet debates between Israelis and non-Israelis who used to see themselves as partners for the same cause; these arguments made the pro-occupation right quite happy. Check out, for examples, the Twitter feeds of Joseph Dana, Max Blumenthal, Itamar_B,  Or Bareket, Yossi Gurvitz, Elizabeth Tsurkov and Ali Abunimah. Given the highly aggressive tones in these debates, I find myself wondering what would become of the ability to internationalize the conversation.

    Personally, I didn’t agree with Max and Joseph’s piece. I thought it cherry-picked examples in order to prove that J14 was some sort of a right-wing movement (it’s not), while missing on the bigger picture. This is an Israeli mass movement, so it is bound to include many of the problematic aspects of Israeli politics, such as the tendency to see the Golan or even the settlement of Ariel as part of Israel proper. The important issue is not where the movement starts but where it leads, and in my view, this is still an open question. Change doesn’t just happen one day (or in a single month). It happens through political activism, and right now we have mass activism for the first time in years. So there could, potentially, be mass change. This is the reason for the relative hope I see in this protest.

    Yet there was something more to what I sensed than pure disagreement. I felt a bit offended on an emotional level by Max and Joseph’s piece, which is not something very common for me when political writing is concerned, even when I am personally attacked. Reading some of the comments my friends made on Twitter, I thought they had the same feeling, possibly even worse.

    What made us feel offended? A possible explanation is that in recent years Israeli leftists found outside their country the understanding and support they couldn’t get from their own peers in Israel, so we take it very much to heart when this understanding is denied us. Without being too melodramatic, it hasn’t been easy to be a leftist here in the last couple of years. We registered +972 as a non-profit recently, and yesterday, while sitting with our accountant, he told me off-handedly: “Better keep your papers in order – someone might give you trouble, considering your politics.”  And I can give other such examples every day of the week.

    To a Palestinian all this might sound very strange, if not simply selfish and myopic: Our petty problems are nothing compared to those faced by a resident of Nablus yet to gain his freedom, or to the Gazans who were in mortal danger just last week.

    So both sides ended up feeling betrayed: The Israelis who lost their partners just when they felt that progress was finally being made, and the Palestinians that couldn’t help but hear the message that “the occupation can wait while we are working on reaching out to the Jewish public.” Palestinians know that they have waited enough. Personally, I would have felt the same if I were a Palestinian, so I don’t need to ask for their support or understanding in dealing with my own society.

    But there might be something deeper, and I am referring here more to the commentary by non-Palestinian writers (as I said, I have no demands from Palestinians on that). What I get from the writing by non-Palestinian activists is not just a rejection of internal Israeli politics, which is understandable, but of Israeli identity as a whole, seeing it as one which is inherently criminal, and therefore cannot change, while J14 is all about an attempt for internal change.

    I am not talking racism here. Usually, people who give me the feeling I described above are quite ready to acknowledge our Jewish identity. But for me and for many of my friends on the left—most of them third and fourth generation Israelis  —we are always more “Israeli” than “Jewish,” whether we like it or not. While we accept the need for a radical transformation of the political system – one which must change what “Israeli” means and possibly replace this term altogether, we are Israelis now. Not “Jews.” I do expect those who analyze Israeli society at least to be aware of that.

    But should this identity crisis really interest those critics when making their points? I don’t know. I believe that their primary motivation is solidarity with the Palestinians, and it’s a noble one. Yet I think such understanding can explain some of the current strife.

    Politically speaking, it’s a reminder of the fact that the real trade-off in this conflict is not about independence (for Palestinians) and security (for Israelis) but rather freedom and justice (for Palestinians) and legitimacy (for Israelis). And when Israelis seem to abandon the Palestinian cause (even if they think it’s in the interest of freedom and justice), they lose on the legitimacy side. These are all very abstract terms, and perhaps not the right ones to use in a political debate, but I have no other way of explaining my unfinished thoughts on this issue.

    On a more immediate level, it has been proven that the cooperation between progressive forces in Israel and abroad can only take place within an active joint struggle against the occupation. Perhaps this is for the best. Unlike some, I am optimistic, and I think that once our attention comes back to this issue, ties could be renewed.




  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #231 - August 30, 2011, 11:36 PM



    Song: Jacket, by Ivri Lider
    Translation: (generously provided by a dear, dear Israeli friend)

    Come to the water, the time for shame is over
    Come to the water, the time for denial is over
    Teach me to swim, to float
    To smoke and to enjoy and to fly

    When I grow up I'll be like everyone [else]
    And I'll have a big love that'll be waiting for me in this world
    I'll have stars on the prettiest jacket in town
    To use and return

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #232 - August 30, 2011, 11:50 PM

    Anti-Arab sentiment in Israel:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb_vXaVKaMM

    Our results showed that 46 percent of our respondents were either mildly or strongly anti-Arab. When we broke these numbers down according to city, there were obvious regional differences. Jerusalem was by far the most anti-Arab of the five cities we visited, with 58 percent exhibiting some level of anti-Arab sentiment, while Haifa was the least with 32 percent. Interestingly, after Jerusalem, Tel Aviv was the city with the most anti-Arab sentiment (49 percent).

    The data we gathered substantiates the idea that anti-Arab sentiment is a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. Almost half of all the Jewish Israelis we spoke to exhibited some level of anti-Arab sentiment. The single most disturbing trend that emerged was the correlation between youth and strong anti-Arab sentiment.


    http://electronicintifada.net/content/video-survey-racism-rampant-among-israeli-youth/10286

    The video actually proves the exact opposite point. With the the exception of the teenage girls, all the other answers were not extremists. I would've thought Israelis were more anti-Arab. If anything the video improved the image of Israelis as far as I'm concerned.

    Just go do the same kinda survey in Palestine, hell even in Kuwait or Iraq and I can guarantee you that the percentages would be twice as high but more importantly the views would more extremists and hateful.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #233 - August 30, 2011, 11:57 PM

    Just go do the same kinda survey in Palestine, hell even in Kuwait or Iraq and I can guarantee you that the percentages would be twice as high but more importantly the views would more extremists and hateful.


    +1

    Me: I believe in peace with Israel, yes.
    Algerian dude: *facepalm* I... I can't even consider you Algerian anymore.

    10-year-old me: ... are you actually saying we should kill ALL Jews?
    Teacher: *After deep thought* Yes. All of them.

    Quite a few people call me a Jew because of my political opinions. Huh?

    Then again, I'm probably the only guy I know who can sing in three different Jewish languages.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #234 - August 31, 2011, 12:05 AM

    Dude, read the article. The video doesn't include everyone. And it says nothing about "extremism", it talks about anti-Arab mentality. Saying "they're people but I wouldn't live next to them" is anti-Arab mentality. 46 percent of the people they interviewed expressed anti-Arab views, and the article suggests some people refused to participate because the interviewers were perceived as leftist media (suggesting they hold racist, right-wing views). That's pretty fucked up, if you ask me.

    And pointing the finger at Arabs is pretty cheap. I mean sure it's a fair point to make (although the article/video claim that Palestinian anti-Jewish mentality is on the periphery, but that claim is not substantiated), but bringing it up when discussing Israeli racism, that's not an argument.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #235 - August 31, 2011, 12:13 AM

    Dude, read the article. The video doesn't include everyone. And it says nothing about "extremism", it talks about anti-Arab mentality. Saying "they're people but I wouldn't live next to them" is anti-Arab mentality. 46 percent of the people they interviewed expressed anti-Arab views, and the article suggests some people refused to participate because the interviewers were perceived as leftist media (suggesting they hold racist, right-wing views). That's pretty fucked up, if you ask me.

    I meant with the exception of the teenage girls none we're extreme in their anti-Arab sentiment. A thing that can't be said about the anti-Jewish sentiment among Arabs.
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #236 - September 07, 2011, 11:46 AM

    "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
    - David Ben-Gurion
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #237 - September 07, 2011, 01:32 PM

    Dude, read the article. The video doesn't include everyone. And it says nothing about "extremism", it talks about anti-Arab mentality. Saying "they're people but I wouldn't live next to them" is anti-Arab mentality.

    .. No that is not Anti Arab mentality., That is anti-Islamic mentality some Jews which is activated by Muhammad following Arabs. Irrespective what the video  says., the blame squarely lies on Islam and those who follow Quarn/Hadith/sunnah of prophet of Islam.
    Quote
    46 percent of the people they interviewed expressed anti-Arab views, and the article suggests some people refused to participate because the interviewers were perceived as leftist media (suggesting they hold racist, right-wing views). That's pretty fucked up, if you ask me.......

    Well that may be because 99% of their interaction with Arabs is through Islam.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #238 - September 07, 2011, 02:47 PM

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christians

    So when Israel fucks over the Palestinian Christians what's that about, yeez?

    fuck you
  • Re: Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?
     Reply #239 - September 07, 2011, 03:55 PM

    "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
    - David Ben-Gurion


    Does that quote imply you don't support the two-state solution?

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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