Pro Israel or Pro Palestine?

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- ElToro
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Reply #810 - January 16, 2015, 12:21 AM

I voted pro Israel, although I'm not supporting them fully.

I have read and watched some reports about Israel and for me it's really amazing to see what they did out of this dessert in such short term.
One Jews women living in a city close to Gaza said in the report "before we came here the Palestinians lived in small villages even without electricity, we created and built everything. Palestinians even come to our hospitals and used to work in our factories" And I kind of agree with them. I actually think that the Palestinians would do better if they life in Israel as their citizens. But I know that most of the people wouldn't accept that. In the end it was their land, which they took away from them.

Also I find the lifestyle of most Jewish people very open-minded and Western. But the same as I don't like orthodox Muslims, who are fighting against non-Muslims, I also hate orthodox (racists) Jews who fight against non-Jews.

Regarding the attacks, in most cases it's the Hamas attacking first and Israel strikes back. Of course, they use too much power and too many civil people die. On the other hand, the Hamas is hiding themselves in civil buildings.

What I don't like about Israel that they still building new houses in Palestinian areas. They have to stop this. Also the strict religious laws, like a Jew can't marry a Muslim are old-fashioned.
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Reply #811 - January 16, 2015, 12:37 AM

Yeah, I think when most people discuss this it's less about whose way of life you prefer and more about the conflict between them. While I agree that there's a lot of good in Israeli society and that it's more open-minded and Western and all that, it's kind of unfair to make those comparisons. Palestine is and has long been in an extremely disadvantaged position, while Israel has the support of powerful Western nations.

I should certainly hope that the least Israel is doing is building hospitals or erecting power lines with all the funds and connections they have. Perhaps if things had turned out differently, Palestine would also have developed into a more modern country, but as of right now, there's a lot keeping them back, not least of which is Israel.
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Reply #812 - January 16, 2015, 12:49 AM

Israel occupied the West Bank in 1967.

The occupation is illegal.

Israel started to send in settlers into illegally occupied territory. That is super-illegal.

Israel to this day again and again increase the settlements. That clearly shows their intentions.

A random Jew anywhere in the world will be paid by the Israeli state to settle in the West Bank.

They have the right of return to a country they have no ties to except them being "Jewish".

The original indigenous population that was expelled through terror and ethnic cleansing and who got their property stolen do not get that right

No ifs and buts, please.

And one day Israel will have to solve what they call "the demographic problem". That there are too many Palestinians living in what they want to be their Jewish homeland.

A Jewish homeland, that has never defined its own borders.

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Reply #813 - January 16, 2015, 01:09 AM

Quote from: lua on January 16, 2015, 12:37 AM
................Perhaps if things had turned out differently, Palestine would also have developed into a more modern country, but as of right now, there's a lot keeping them back, not least of which is Israel. ..............

what you are talking girl? the only way Viva Palestine could become super power of the Islamic planet is when we eliminate Israel and Juice from the face of the earth ..

Ban the Juice., No more Juice in the super Markets

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Reply #814 - January 16, 2015, 01:17 AM

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 16, 2015, 12:49 AM
...............................

And one day Israel will have to solve what they call "the demographic problem". That there are too many Palestinians living in what they want to be their Jewish homeland.

A Jewish homeland, that has never defined its own borders.

well that is good.. Eliminate Islamic rubbish that stems out of Mosques across the Islamic world day in and day out., I will solve Israel /Palestine problems in a year if not in months Nikolaj ...

and let us get all the Jews that moved out of Middle Eastern countries including Kingdom of Sand back in to those lands., We know Jews were there in Madina.. So let us give that Sand land also back to them and let us read some posts such as

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=15908.msg440030#msg440030

and more in that 1st page of this folder..

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Reply #815 - January 16, 2015, 02:20 AM

Yeezevee, I'm so glad you're back.
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Reply #816 - January 16, 2015, 02:22 AM

I am as well Actually got worried for you. Our very own random generator.

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Reply #817 - January 16, 2015, 03:17 AM

Quote from: lua on January 16, 2015, 12:37 AM
Palestine is and has long been in an extremely disadvantaged position, while Israel has the support of powerful Western nations.

Yes, it's exactly like Haiti in that regard, while Israel is more like...um....hmm. Israel is kind of a special case, what with America dumping military equipment there like they don't want there to be a tomorrow. You want guns? Sure! Tanks? Sure! Planes? Sure! Nukes? Sure! You don't even have to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and no one will bug you about it, although we'll continue to pester India and Pakistan, and we'll throw sanctions on Iran if they try to develop nuclear energy!

But who is giving aid to Palestine? Once we realized it was a bit of a humanitarian crisis, we said, "Well, better give them some food so they can survive." But we're not doing anything about half of them living in bombed-out houses, behind an apartheid wall, not being allowed to work or get an education that could better their situation unless they leave.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
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Reply #818 - January 16, 2015, 03:30 AM

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 15, 2015, 11:47 PM
galfromusa, you are (yet another) absolutely mind-blowing addition to this site. I'm knocked over.

Aww thanks

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 16, 2015, 12:49 AM
A random Jew anywhere in the world will be paid by the Israeli state to settle in the West Bank.

And you don't even need to practice Judaism. Like I said, I could claim right of return, even tho I'm not practicing Judaism. I could even marry someone with no Jewish background and then claim right of return and go to Israel with them. I could therefore, in theory, marry a Palestinian and be paid to live in the West Bank with him.

Though I know that I'd be killed, because even before floating that idea, I have been told that I should be publicly decapitated, and that if that was not possible, my death would be arranged "some other way" by my old "friends." And I have no question that they'd do it, too, if they knew where I was.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
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Reply #819 - January 16, 2015, 07:19 AM

.
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Reply #820 - January 16, 2015, 09:07 AM

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 16, 2015, 12:49 AM
Israel occupied the West Bank in 1967.

The occupation is illegal.

Israel started to send in settlers into illegally occupied territory. That is super-illegal.

Israel to this day again and again increase the settlements. That clearly shows their intentions.

A random Jew anywhere in the world will be paid by the Israeli state to settle in the West Bank.

They have the right of return to a country they have no ties to except them being "Jewish".

The original indigenous population that was expelled through terror and ethnic cleansing and who got their property stolen do not get that right

No ifs and buts, please.

And one day Israel will have to solve what they call "the demographic problem". That there are too many Palestinians living in what they want to be their Jewish homeland.

A Jewish homeland, that has never defined its own borders.

Might makes right unless you are on the losing side. Both have used this as an excuse and cry foul when it happens to them. Not that I support Israeli but lets not pretend everything is one sided.
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Reply #821 - January 16, 2015, 11:06 AM

Quote from: galfromusa on January 15, 2015, 10:21 PM

As much as I hate to say it, Jews are living pretty peacefully in Iran.
(Clicky for piccy!)

^A 100% not photoshopped picture of some rabbi from the Neturei Karta and Ahmadinejad.

That's why there are so few Jews still in Iran? Also, If they are Zionists, do you think they can live in peace in Iran?

Quote from: galfromusa on January 15, 2015, 10:21 PM

Co-existence between Palestinian Jews and Arabs worked for ~1,200 years. Then some people who hated the Jews, like "Zionist visionary" Theodor Herzl, decided to support the Nazis in the hopes that it would lead to the founding of a separate Jewish state where, like I said earlier, the Jews would eventually be destroyed. And then a bunch of Zionist "Jews" moved to Israel and started provoking and killing Arabs, to make the Arabs attack them back, so that they'd be "justified" in the wholesale slaughter of the native Arabs. The native Jews who had been living there for generations were against this, and only joined in when it became obvious that that was the only way to defend themselves in the face of the total war the Zionist instigators had caused.

In fact, observant Jews were some of the first people the Zionist instigators killed, like Dr. Ya'akov Yisrael De Haan. So, yeah.

You say there have been co-existence between Jews and Arabs in Palestine for 1200 years. Maybe it was and only because Jews were just another dhimmis, just another inferior citizens.
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Reply #822 - January 16, 2015, 11:19 AM

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 15, 2015, 11:09 PM
A marriage of convenience with 50 million Americans.

If the Zionists only lived in Israel the United Nations wouldn't have had its balls cut off. Which affects every other conflict including the impotence regarding Syria.

How Jews lobby in USA affects the impotence regarding Syria?
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Reply #823 - January 16, 2015, 11:33 AM

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 16, 2015, 12:49 AM
Israel occupied the West Bank in 1967.

The occupation is illegal.

Israel started to send in settlers into illegally occupied territory. That is super-illegal.

Israel to this day again and again increase the settlements. That clearly shows their intentions.

A random Jew anywhere in the world will be paid by the Israeli state to settle in the West Bank.

They have the right of return to a country they have no ties to except them being "Jewish".

The original indigenous population that was expelled through terror and ethnic cleansing and who got their property stolen do not get that right

YES to all statements..

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 16, 2015, 12:49 AM

No ifs and buts, please.

And one day Israel will have to solve what they call "the demographic problem". That there are too many Palestinians living in what they want to be their Jewish homeland.

A Jewish homeland, that has never defined its own borders.

But as I said "the demographic problem" is about to be solved with colonizing Haredis, which as you know have a TFR of 7 children born/woman. More than double than the Arabs, which has decreased a lot in recent years.

I'm sure the Israeli right consider their western border to be Jordan river.
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Reply #824 - January 16, 2015, 03:42 PM

Quote from: suki on January 16, 2015, 07:19 AM
.

Suki is writing and deleting the posts .. I guess she is angry at this folder.... I ask you why suki ? Why delete posts.. let us delete anger ...lol..

with best wishes
yeezevee

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the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #825 - January 16, 2015, 03:50 PM

Quote from: nbhb on January 16, 2015, 11:19 AM
How Jews lobby in USA affects the impotence regarding Syria?

If the UN's resolutions towards Israel had actually been enforced that would in my imagination have created a stronger UN better capable of resolving obvious problems in the Middle East.

We only see the US allowing more or less toothless condemnations go through.

So we have the US, Russia and China vetoing stuff to get at each other and protect their own agendas.

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Reply #826 - January 16, 2015, 04:42 PM

Hmmm, do I think that Russia will not follow its agenda and its interests, if all Zionists will leave USA?
Sorry, but NO. And here in this part of the world I have felt on my own skin Russian agenda.
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Reply #827 - January 16, 2015, 05:29 PM

Quote from: nbhb on January 16, 2015, 11:06 AM
That's why there are so few Jews still in Iran? Also, If they are Zionists, do you think they can live in peace in Iran?

You say there have been co-existence between Jews and Arabs in Palestine for 1200 years. Maybe it was and only because Jews were just another dhimmis, just another inferior citizens.

The number of Jews in Iran may SEEM small, but compared to the number of Jews that there are in the whole world, it is actually quite large. This is especially true when you compare it to the total number of non-Ashkenazim. Believe it or not, there are Arab Jews (usually called Temani Jews) and they are treated like shit by Israel. Most of the time they're not even recognized as Jews, despite them and their families having been practicing Judaism for generations. And if they are lucky enough to be allowed "right of return", they'll have to change the way they've dressed, their dialect, their marriage practices, and all their other religious practices to be Ashkenazi, or they face being the victims of racial violence. By Jews.

So a lot of the time, they find it easier to stay in the Arab countries, if they're not being oppressed more than they're going to be oppressed if they go to Israel.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
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Reply #828 - January 16, 2015, 05:40 PM

Quote from: galfromusa on January 16, 2015, 05:29 PM
........Arab Jews (usually called Temani Jews) and they are treated like shit by Israel............

hello girl of Musa., you mean Yemenite Jews?? ... And They are treated like shit in Israel? why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7bAPdrSy9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8IalmlTI6I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s13h6-7Whg8

well i see them happy and healthy and and dancing away to their tunes.. that is from Israel..

anyways., Any links on that shit in Israel. Please add some links..

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Reply #829 - January 16, 2015, 06:54 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on January 16, 2015, 05:40 PM
hello girl of Musa

You do realise that her name is "Gal from USA"?

Yeezevee, you have a strange sense of humour at times and can come across as quite insulting.

Quote from: yeezevee on January 16, 2015, 05:40 PM
Any links on that shit in Israel. Please add some links..

Not everything is on the internet. There is a real world out there that some have direct experience of.
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Reply #830 - January 16, 2015, 07:13 PM

There are virtually no Yemeni Jews left in Yemen. They mostly migrated to Israel. To what extend this was because of push (being treated like shit by Muslims) or pull (wanting to immigrate to Israel for religious reasons) factors is impossible to know for sure.

According to Wiki:

Yemeni Jews - Regions with significant populations

Israel - 350,000

United States - 30,000

United Kingdom - 5,000

Yemen - 500 (est.)[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Jews
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Reply #831 - January 16, 2015, 07:44 PM

The Yemenite Jews were treated badly when they arrived in Israel - see these articles from +972 on the Yemenite baby affair:

http://972mag.com/the-tragedy-of-the-lost-yemenite-children-in-the-footsteps-of-the-adoptees/85930/

http://972mag.com/the-yemenite-baby-affair-what-if-this-was-your-child/75672/

This is interesting on the relationship of Mizrahis with the Israeli left:

http://972mag.com/how-can-this-monkey-be-talking-about-an-ideology-that-developed-in-europe/69465/

Which side are you on?
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Reply #832 - January 16, 2015, 08:39 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on January 16, 2015, 03:42 PM
Suki is writing and deleting the posts .. I guess she is angry at this folder.... I ask you why suki ? Why delete posts.. let us delete anger ...lol..

with best wishes
yeezevee

Hey Yeezevee, i know i'm forever deleting my posts : ) i thought it was boring so trashed it.. naw not angry, i was writing about my jewish heritage having recently discovered my mums family are jewish after doing a geneaolgy tree, we found out that our family hid their ethnicity and changed the family surname going back hundreds of years.. thats all i wrote lol.. interesting wasn't it..... : / Lol
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Reply #833 - January 16, 2015, 08:47 PM

^That does sound interesting actually.

Which side are you on?
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Reply #834 - January 16, 2015, 08:54 PM

they are from germany and holland and changed it to a german surname going back to the 1600's or earlier ? we havent found out why yet or how they got away with it, kinda funny because i've often been mistaken for a jew with jewish people many a time ha ha, i know why now.
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Reply #835 - January 16, 2015, 09:04 PM

That is actually very interesting. How did you trace your family back to the 1600s?
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Reply #836 - January 16, 2015, 09:11 PM

Quote from: suki on January 16, 2015, 08:54 PM
they are from germany and holland and changed it to a german surname going back to the 1600's or earlier ? we havent found out why yet or how they got away with it, kinda funny because i've often been mistaken for a jew with jewish people many a time ha ha, i know why now.

That is interesting, Suki. I have always wanted to research my own (very mixed) family roots but I don't know how or where to start.
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Reply #837 - January 16, 2015, 09:44 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on January 16, 2015, 03:50 PM
If the UN's resolutions towards Israel had actually been enforced that would in my imagination have created a stronger UN better capable of resolving obvious problems in the Middle East.

We only see the US allowing more or less toothless condemnations go through.

So we have the US, Russia and China vetoing stuff to get at each other and protect their own agendas.

The veto and security council prevent the UN from functioning. It has become the PC version of nation exercising their military and economic power without actually doing so. Members in the UN by joining acknowledge the supremacy of these nations rather than testing the conviction of these nations and their agendas. Few attempt to call the bluff of nations on the council. However I do wonder if these nations would rally to support their agenda if the bluff was to be called. For example I wonder if Russia would have gone to war with the West if we ignored their veto in the case of Syria.
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Reply #838 - January 16, 2015, 09:45 PM

Quote from: suki on January 16, 2015, 08:39 PM
Hey Yeezevee, i know i'm forever deleting my posts : ) i thought it was boring so trashed it.. naw not angry, i was writing about my jewish heritage having recently discovered my mums family are jewish after doing a geneaolgy tree, we found out that our family hid their ethnicity and changed the family surname going back hundreds of years.. thats all i wrote lol.. interesting wasn't it..... : / Lol

Same here. Name change, conversion to Xianity. Even had the Y changed to a J like Jesus
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Reply #839 - January 16, 2015, 11:32 PM

Quote from: Tonyt on January 16, 2015, 09:04 PM
That is actually very interesting. How did you trace your family back to the 1600s?

Oh i didn't do the searching, luckily one of our family members did all the hard work.

(edited gave too much info away)
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