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 Topic: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?

 (Read 5331 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     OP - May 30, 2011, 11:37 PM

    What does Islam mean?  Does it mean Peace, or Submission, or [ZakirNaikVoice]"Peace acquired by submitting your will to Allah subhanna watala"[/ZakirNaikVoice]?

    According to me it means Submission (and nothing else), but you always get the odd Muslim who is adamant that there's an element of "peace" in the meaning too.

    Dunno if this question required a whole thread dedicated to it, but when we get a definitive answer this thread can sink into oblivion.

    .
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #1 - May 30, 2011, 11:50 PM


    Islam means submission, but its a handy (and crafty) piece of casual dawah to repeat over and over that it means peace. The Peace that comes with submission is what alot of those who say that mean, if they're not consciously bullshitting. Which is actually 'logical' from their point of view, but to everyone else, it implies that peace has conditions, and that is, in reality, a little sinister.

     'The Religion of Peace' is another attempt at Islamic exceptionalism......you know, well other religions say they believe in peace, but Islam is the one and only RELIGION OF PEACE (c)

    Having said that, 'Religion of Peace' is as likely to elicit giggles as anything else, when it is used these days.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #2 - May 31, 2011, 12:07 AM

    Well... heres wut ii was always told.
    Islam comes from the word Salaam, which means peace. Thats how the peace idea comes from.
    But Islam means to submit, which, I believe, is the true meaning.
    Submitting to Allah without a question.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #3 - May 31, 2011, 02:07 AM

    Hassan covered this in an older thread somewhere. Would have to go and find it, but according to him it does not come from salaam and does not mean peace. Since he is fluent in Quranic Arabic (not just modern Arabic) I've always taken his word for it.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #4 - May 31, 2011, 12:55 PM

    IIRC, it is derived from the stem "silm" not "salam"
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #5 - June 01, 2011, 03:34 AM

    Islam means submission.

    By the way no matter what dawagandists say there is no peace in Islam, even after a person submits to it.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #6 - June 01, 2011, 05:08 AM

    Its submission but I believe that the idea is that submission should bring you peace.

    Subs feel peace when they are dominated in the bedroom, it is a release brought about by total submission.  Trusting your partner and all that.  I always saw the submission required in the Islamic sense pretty similar.

    The whole idea behind it is to remove onus and responsibility.  Some people are so sexually repressed/tight laced, wound up etc that being dominated, and having that 'say' removed (in a safe environment and willingly) means they can let go of that burden of moral responsibilty.

    If you apply that here, a lot of muslims seem pretty peaceful when they completely submit and trust that the reprehensible things allah the dominator expects off of them, are ok to do.  No blame, no shame, and in that way they achieve peace.

    Its those of us who struggle and fight against his will that do not get that peace because we are not silly enough to believe that letting allah take control of our morality will somehow make everything we do ok.

    Or at least that is how I always viewed it.

    Although, what is the safe word hey?  lol

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #7 - June 01, 2011, 05:44 AM

    Radish

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #8 - June 01, 2011, 07:03 AM

    Christopher Hitchens vs. Tariq Ramadan: Is Islam a Religion of Peace?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q-jjipSNoc

    Full debate on Youtube.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #9 - June 01, 2011, 09:57 AM

    LOL

    Peace

     Cheesy

    Just go and look into the first 300 years of Islamic history. And tell me if that is "peace"?

    If Islam means peace the Pope is Lutheran...

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #10 - June 01, 2011, 09:58 AM

    Christopher Hitchens vs. Tariq Ramadan: Is Islam a Religion of Peace?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q-jjipSNoc

    Full debate on Youtube.


    Tariq "Mr Moratorium" Ramadan just got Hitchslapped - BIG TIME!

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #11 - June 01, 2011, 10:05 PM

    Islam means submission.

    By the way no matter what dawagandists say there is no peace in Islam, even after a person submits to it.


    The expert just chimed in. Discussion closed.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #12 - June 02, 2011, 01:56 PM

    Islam means submission.

    By the way no matter what dawagandists say there is no peace in Islam, even after a person submits to it.


    You do know not all those who are into dawah claim that? When I was becoming increasingly religious I was told something quite different.  "Islam is peace when its time for peace, when its war its war" is what I was taught meaning Islam is at war when there isn't submission, when there is submission (Islamic state, dhimmis, jizya, sharia etc) then its peaceful  parrot

    And IMO the history of Christianity is far bloodier so you have no room to talk.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TooOJGKlGc
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #13 - June 02, 2011, 02:14 PM

    Peace is salam. Submission is istislam . Imo islam means to be on the on the peace side if you know what I mean. Like you would be left alone

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #14 - June 02, 2011, 02:17 PM

    As they used to say islem taslam which means become a muslim and u u will get peace

    [13:36] <Fimbles> anything above 7 inches
    [13:37] <Fimbles> is wacko
    [13:37] <Fimbles> see
    [13:37] <Fimbles> you think i'd enjoy anything above 7 inches up my arse?
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #15 - June 02, 2011, 02:26 PM

    She wasn't claiming that all who practice dawah believe that to be true, she was simply stating that she doesn't accept the fact that Islam means peace and whoever tells you as such is incorrect. By the way, bringing up Christianity to excuse Islam's shortcomings is a terrible excuse for an argument.

    @Thread: Islam only means peace if it's the bliss you attain from being willfully ignorant about matters that actually have some importance. Like, shut your brain completely off, stop thinking for yourself peace. Other than that, I believe it means submission by way of its root word.

    "I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want."
    Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #16 - June 02, 2011, 03:10 PM

    Quote
    By the way, bringing up Christianity to excuse Islam's shortcomings is a terrible excuse for an argument.


    He/she is a bigot Christian who's basically saying "their fairytale isn't as peaceful as mine" I was merely implying she should look at the history of her own faith.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #17 - June 02, 2011, 03:27 PM

    Point still stands, bruh.

    "I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want."
    Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #18 - June 02, 2011, 03:42 PM

    Having a bigot Christian saying Islam isn't peaceful is a bit like having a nazi claim some other ideology is fascist, its fucking stupid and the obvious needs to be pointed out.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #19 - June 02, 2011, 04:28 PM

    You do know not all those who are into dawah claim that? When I was becoming increasingly religious I was told something quite different.  "Islam is peace when its time for peace, when its war its war" is what I was taught meaning Islam is at war when there isn't submission, when there is submission (Islamic state, dhimmis, jizya, sharia etc) then its peaceful  parrot

    And IMO the history of Christianity is far bloodier so you have no room to talk.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TooOJGKlGc

     I don't really disagree with you but that video was rather inaccurate.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #20 - June 02, 2011, 05:03 PM

    Having a bigot Christian saying Islam isn't peaceful is a bit like having a nazi claim some other ideology is fascist, its fucking stupid and the obvious needs to be pointed out.


    Yeah! it would be fucking stupid but it doesn't alter the truth of the other ideology being fascist.



    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #21 - June 02, 2011, 05:59 PM

    Quote
    but it doesn't alter the truth of the other ideology being fascist.


    I never said it did  Tongue


    I don't really disagree with you but that video was rather inaccurate.


    It was supposed to be a joke, saw that a couple of days ago on CBBC, yes I'm a big kid  grin12
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #22 - June 02, 2011, 07:00 PM

    just an fyi.  when you point a finger at someone else,
    there are 3 fingers and a thumb point back at you  Wink

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #23 - June 03, 2011, 04:24 AM

    Quote
    Aphrodite

    And IMO the history of Christianity is far bloodier so you have no room to talk.


    This is a forum and I will say what's on my mind.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #24 - June 03, 2011, 10:33 AM

    QueenIsabel:
    Yeah. But spare us for your biased (and selective) crap.

    Fairy tales are fairy tales. And some of them kills like the Abrahamic religions (including CHRISTIANITY!) and some doesnt like for example Harry Potter.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #25 - June 03, 2011, 10:34 AM

    Yeah! it would be fucking stupid but it doesn't alter the truth of the other ideology being fascist.


    True. Two wrongs doesn't make one right.

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #26 - June 03, 2011, 10:35 AM

    Having a bigot Christian saying Islam isn't peaceful is a bit like having a nazi claim some other ideology is fascist, its fucking stupid and the obvious needs to be pointed out.


     thnkyu

    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #27 - June 03, 2011, 02:37 PM

    QueenIsabel:
    Yeah. But spare us for your biased (and selective) crap.


    Then don't read my posts.
  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #28 - June 03, 2011, 04:00 PM

    thnkyu


    But its not a good analogy. Christianity has a violent history, but Christianity of today is not the Christianity of the past. It was forced to get its house in order, it has been castrated and de-fanged. There are still Christian fanatics and Christian bigots, but the power of Christianity is not what it was, and it is subject to the arrows and slings, sneers, ridicule and scrutiny of a self-reflexive culture that has secularised and turns in on its former overlord in the former domains in which Christianity held most total power.

    Of course in the developing world, especially in Africa, Christianity does perpetrate pernicious reactionary influence. And of course there are exceptions of influence and persuasion in the bigger picture. But not to acknowledge the state of Christianity today, from how it was in the past, is I feel, quite disingenuous.

    Even the debate about the history of Christian violence in relation to Islam is skewed. The history of the crusades, for example, are widely known and condemned by secular societies that previously were the domains of Christian power. Aphrodite can post a clip from a BBC Childrens TV history show, which shows how complete this introspective condemnation is. But there is no similar introspection and condemnation of historical violence perpetrated in the name of Islam and Islamic imperialism. In fact, the mainstream view is to glorify, justify and elevate and romanticise Islamic crusades throughout history. The tendency in the West is to go along with that, for various complex reasons, partly ignorance, partly fear, partly misguided liberal sentiment.

    When it comes to using Christianity as a counter example, I think we should be more honest. We should say that Christianity has a violent and bloody and bigoted history, but that its castration and neutering is a good example to how Islam can also be tamed and put back in its kennel, where it belongs. We should also say that the self-reflexivity and honest self-criticism that secularised societies carry out in regard to Christian history is another example for Muslim societies and Identity Politicians to learn from regarding their violent history.

    Finally, the existence of Christian bigots and sectarians and fundamentalists in the present day presents another counter-example. On an individual basis, Christianity can be debunked through textual and cultural scrutiny. Christians can leave Christianity without fear of death or violence. Jesus Christ himself can be rejected, criticised and ridiculed, with infinitely more freedom than can happen in the Islamic world with Mohammad and the Quran and Hadith. So on an individual level, away from large historical points, and on the theological level, the existence of a secular space that Christianity has had to demur to, also has to be acknowledged. The historical, cultural and social processes that brought us to this point are valuable and must be considered; as does, in the main, Christianity's ultimate submission to them. Unless you tell it like it is, these lessons don't get applied in other spaces and domains, to other religions like Islam.

     

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Does Islam mean Peace, or Submission, or a bit of both?
     Reply #29 - June 03, 2011, 04:17 PM

    Quote
    But there is no similar introspection and condemnation of historical violence perpetrated in the name of Islam and Islamic imperialism. In fact, the mainstream view is to glorify, justify and elevate and romanticise Islamic crusades throughout history. The tendency in the West is to go along with that, for various complex reasons, partly ignorance, partly fear, partly misguided liberal sentiment.


    I think the glorification by muslims of the Islamic conquests are to do with Mo's 'prophecies' of conquering Constantinople and other cities  Roll Eyes Also from what I know the Islamic conquests weren't as religious as the crusades in that they weren't being done to convert people to Islam (as long as you paid jizya you could worship who you want) instead they were done to strengthen the empire which is what every empire does.

    Quote
    Christians can leave Christianity without fear of death or violence. Jesus Christ himself can be rejected, criticised and ridiculed, with infinitely more freedom than can happen in the Islamic world with Mohammad and the Quran and Hadith.


     Afro
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