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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins

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  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #60 - July 14, 2011, 10:33 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on July 14, 2011, 02:04 PM
    Hamza just wrote this on his Facebook/twitter...

    Hamza Andreas Tzortzis
    We have spent many long days analysing the Qur'an's statements in chapter 23 on embryology, and have compared them with modern academic work on the subject. We have completed the first draft of the research, and amazingly the Qur'an is more accurate than firstly discovered. Watch this space!

     Roll Eyes

    Hmm.. That's strange;  because Hamza tried to distance himself from the so-called scientific miracles in the Quran when he appeared on the Magic Sandwich Show with AronRa etc.  He admitted it was a mistake of him and Adnan to bring up those arguments in the discussion with PZ Myers.
    "Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so." -- Bertrand Russell

    Baloney Detection Kit
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #61 - July 14, 2011, 10:51 PM
    what is it going to be?
    simultaneous formation of bones and flesh?
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #62 - July 15, 2011, 05:17 AM
    Even if this is wrong, still the Quran would be 'linguistically' right.  Roll Eyes


    Youtube
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #63 - August 21, 2011, 08:35 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on July 14, 2011, 02:04 PM
    Hamza just wrote this on his Facebook/twitter...

    Hamza Andreas Tzortzis
    We have spent many long days analysing the Qur'an's statements in chapter 23 on embryology, and have compared them with modern academic work on the subject. We have completed the first draft of the research, and amazingly the Qur'an is more accurate than firstly discovered. Watch this space!

     Roll Eyes





    are we still waiting for this nugget of wisdom?
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #64 - August 22, 2011, 04:33 PM
    Hamza Andreas Tzortzis:
    " Calling all PhD students and academic scientists! Have you studied embryology or developmental biology? If you have, and you are interested in reviewing a new research paper developed by iERA Research, then please email me as soon as possible h.tzortzis@iera.org.uk."


    i find it really funny that he calls it 'research'
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #65 - August 22, 2011, 04:43 PM
    I'm sure there is a journal that it could be sent to.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #66 - August 22, 2011, 05:06 PM
    Hamza Andreas Tzortzis
    "The paper is ready. It just needs a final formal review. After that it wil be designed then published on the iERA website".


    I hope PHD students and academic scientists have better things to do than review Hamzas "research".
    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #67 - August 22, 2011, 05:33 PM
    Quote from: Shahid Raza on August 22, 2011, 05:06 PM
    Hamza Andreas Tzortzis
    "The paper is ready. It just needs a final formal review. After that it wil be designed then published on the iERA website".


    I hope PHD students and academic scientists have better things to do than review Hamzas "research".


    I hope that someone forwards it PZ myers. Afro
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #68 - August 22, 2011, 05:34 PM
    Why the fuck does a Greek convert to Islam???
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #69 - August 22, 2011, 08:48 PM
    Cat Stevens is a Greek.  yes
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #70 - August 22, 2011, 11:11 PM
    Quote from: Baggio10 on June 15, 2011, 08:38 PM
    even if one were to concede the point then it doesn’t in any way prove the existence of a God, certainly not a single eternal God who seeks to interfere in our daily lives and punish those who don’t believe in him.[/i]


    And, more specifically, does not prove the existence of the islamic conception of god (= allah).
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #71 - August 23, 2011, 08:10 AM
    Why atheists only keep talking after they have debated.....why they don't give reasonable and convincing answers while debating Huh?
    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #72 - August 23, 2011, 08:23 AM
    we do.
     hamza the glorified beggar, had his ass thoroughly handed to him at the time. I suspect that he knew this, and the impetus for this new 'research' was to save face. .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #73 - August 23, 2011, 08:34 AM
    Quote from: kartoos on August 23, 2011, 08:10 AM
    Why atheists only keep talking after they have debated.....why they don't give reasonable and convincing answers while debating Huh?

    Lol wut? He got his ass kicked, period.


    Youtube
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #74 - August 23, 2011, 10:27 AM
    Quote from: kartoos on August 23, 2011, 08:10 AM
    Why atheists only keep talking after they have debated.....why they don't give reasonable and convincing answers while debating Huh?


    Watch the Magic Sandwich show where his arguments get ripped apart. I think it's especially telling of Hamza's intellectual dishonesty when he publicly 'retracts his position on science in the Quran ie. isotasy in the quran' after getting his arguments debunked by Aronra, and then is seen in a later video spouting the same BS arguments that were debunked.

    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #75 - August 23, 2011, 11:12 AM
    I actually thought the Magic Sandwich debate was poor from the atheist side as it was largely just DPR interrupting Hamza at every available opportunity, even if only to repeat what AronRa just told him, and of course the latter's insistence on reiterating again and again how these pro-theism arguments have been refuted, and thus failing to actually address them. It seemed to go nowhere to me, with the only person with any substance to their argument being AlmightyAtheist, or whatever his name was. AronRa may have made some valuable points from time to time, but aside from that it seemed mostly like hot air and the same old atheistic platitudes.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #76 - August 23, 2011, 11:32 AM
    I can understand what your saying, but the times when Hamza was 'pinned down' his arguments fell apart 'fine tuning' 'Noah's local flood putting a ship on top of a mountain' 'linguistic miracle of the Quran' 'scientific miracles in the Quran', etc.

    I'd like to see a debate between Hamza and Almighty Atheismo though, in the same dynamic format of the show. I don't like 'formal debates' because you can create a long convoluted diatribe, and points aren't challenged when they arise,. I think that's where Hamza fell apart, (judging by MSS and his talk with PZ Myers) he's used to talking for long periods without being challenged.   
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #77 - August 23, 2011, 05:42 PM
    Quote from: strangestdude on August 23, 2011, 11:32 AM
    I can understand what your saying, but the times when Hamza was 'pinned down' his arguments fell apart 'fine tuning' 'Noah's local flood putting a ship on top of a mountain' 'linguistic miracle of the Quran' 'scientific miracles in the Quran', etc.

    I'd like to see a debate between Hamza and Almighty Atheismo though, in the same dynamic format of the show. I don't like 'formal debates' because you can create a long convoluted diatribe, and points aren't challenged when they arise,. I think that's where Hamza fell apart, (judging by MSS and his talk with PZ Myers) he's used to talking for long periods without being challenged.   


    Precisely.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #78 - August 23, 2011, 05:53 PM
    Quote from: Zebedee on August 23, 2011, 11:12 AM
    I actually thought the Magic Sandwich debate was poor from the atheist side as it was largely just DPR interrupting Hamza at every available opportunity, even if only to repeat what AronRa just told him, and of course the latter's insistence on reiterating again and again how these pro-theism arguments have been refuted, and thus failing to actually address them. It seemed to go nowhere to me, with the only person with any substance to their argument being AlmightyAtheist, or whatever his name was. AronRa may have made some valuable points from time to time, but aside from that it seemed mostly like hot air and the same old atheistic platitudes.


    I disagree. Hamza was all waffle. He was pulling things out of air without understanding anything about them and kept repeating about fine tuning.

    On the Mountains as pegs - he got nailed and he retracted. On embryology he accepted two meanings.

    On thing did not get challenged fully was his insistence that quran had some divine merit!

    The surah challenge for instance. In fact there the are two surah challenge.

    Bring one surah and then bring 10 surah.

    A God will not make such an obvious error.





    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #79 - August 23, 2011, 06:18 PM
    Quote
    I disagree. Hamza was all waffle. He was pulling things out of air without understanding anything about them and kept repeating about fine tuning.


    Yes, as he is wont to do, but nevertheless, I still think the atheists conducted themselves poorly for much of the exchange.

    Quote
    On thing did not get challenged fully was his insistence that quran had some divine merit!


    Maybe it does. That's what's being debated.

    Quote
    Bring one surah and then bring 10 surah.


    The '10 surahs' came first, then the one surah, apparently to further embarrass the Pagans in their inability to imitate the Qur'an.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #80 - August 23, 2011, 06:30 PM
    Quote
    I still think the atheists conducted themselves poorly for much of the exchange.


    Again I disagree. Hamza kept changing goal posts and will not give a straight answer.

    I think they were very polite.

    Quote
    Maybe it does. That's what's being debated.


    But it was not challenged though.

    Quote
    The '10 surahs' came first, then the one surah, apparently to further embarrass the Pagans in their inability to imitate the Qur'an.


    It does not matter what came first.

    A God will not make this kind of mistake.

    Last time I checked the chronology of surah, 10 surah challenge was not the first.

    Can someone verify this?




    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #81 - August 24, 2011, 10:46 AM
    Quote
    It does not matter what came first.

    A God will not make this kind of mistake.


    Well, it wouldn't be a mistake if it was done intentionally.

    Quote
    Last time I checked the chronology of surah, 10 surah challenge was not the first.


    I read in Ma'ariful Qur'an that it was but that could well be wrong as it says differently in Tafsir al-Jalalayn, i.e., one surah was first. Surah Hud contains the 10 surah challenge, but apparently Surah Yunus, with the one surah challenge came first:

    http://www.missionislam.com/quran/revealationorder.htm

    Even so, it's probably still debatable as no-one knows the exact order.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #82 - August 24, 2011, 10:50 AM
    They are talking about the ('surah like it') challenge on his page now. It has been implied that one reason the verses in the quran are inimitable is that they "can be written back to front, front to back and still maintain the same meaning".

    Does this make any sense?
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #83 - August 24, 2011, 10:57 AM
    No.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #84 - August 24, 2011, 12:36 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on August 24, 2011, 10:50 AM
    They are talking about the ('surah like it') challenge on his page now. It has been implied that one reason the verses in the quran are inimitable is that they "can be written back to front, front to back and still maintain the same meaning".

    Does this make any sense?


    they don't say that about the entire qur'an. there is a singular verse in surah mudathir that happens to be a palindrome. that is not a very long verse.
    and it is only a palindrome if you ignore the first letter/word "wa" from it.

    it goes "wa  rabbakafakabbir" that does not sound like a palindrome in english but arabic used to be written without vowels (or vowel marks) and so the ltters form a palindrome. this is harldy a mircale. a mircale? i'm not buying it.
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #85 - August 25, 2011, 12:05 PM
    Does anybody know what Hamza's actual occupation is?  What about the rest of the IERA crew, Yusuf Chambers and Abduraheem Green...
    .
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #86 - August 26, 2011, 02:47 AM
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamza_Andreas_Tzortzis
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #87 - August 30, 2011, 03:00 PM
    The tortoise has gone mad recently. See what he has been posting about atheism on his page.

    "Atheism is a disease of the heart. Not the physical but the spiritual. It is not only an emotional rejection of God, but also of oneself. One thing that we can be sure of is that the self cannot be explained biologically or chemically. The physicist Gerald Schroeder points out that there is no real difference between a heap of sand and the brain of an Einstein, because how can certain bits of matter suddenly create a new reality that has no resemblance to matter? Discuss."  Cheesy

    http://www.facebook.com/HamzaAndreasTzortzis
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #88 - August 30, 2011, 06:04 PM
    I've been trolling in that comment section for some time now. Also another guy the name of UA Khan is also trolling.  Cheesy
  • Re: Hamza Tzortzis & IERA challenge PZ Myers, Maryam Namazie & Richard Dawkins
     Reply #89 - August 30, 2011, 06:07 PM
    Quote from: IHIR on August 30, 2011, 03:00 PM
    The tortoise has gone mad recently. See what he has been posting about atheism on his page.

    "Atheism is a disease of the heart. Not the physical but the spiritual. It is not only an emotional rejection of God, but also of oneself. One thing that we can be sure of is that the self cannot be explained biologically or chemically. The physicist Gerald Schroeder points out that there is no real difference between a heap of sand and the brain of an Einstein, because how can certain bits of matter suddenly create a new reality that has no resemblance to matter? Discuss."  Cheesy

    http://www.facebook.com/HamzaAndreasTzortzis


    There is no real difference imaginary toad and imaginary God. Discusss
    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
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