The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory

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- Klingschor
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The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
OP - June 22, 2011, 05:40 AM

In Sūrah 86 (al-Ṭāriq), Verses 5 to 7, we are told that:

"So let see man from what he is created. He is created from a water, ejected, from between the backbone and the ribs."

In an old video of his, Discussislam/Hassan spoke of how Qur'anic Semen Production is plagiarised from Hellenic Science. In that video (as far as I remember), he failed to provide any proper or legitimate sources.

But now, as of 5 minutes ago, I have located a proper source to back this claim. HAZZAH!

Hippocratic Semen Theory:

"Hippocrates also affirmed that both male and female produce their own sperm which, when they unite, generate a new thing. According to Hippocrates, this semen is the product of the whole body, though it is the brain which mostly contributes to its formation. At the moment of sexual intercourse, the humidity in the body becomes like effervescent foam, the semen is carried through the veins to the spinal cord and the kidneys, whence it makes its way to the testicles en route to the genital organ."

Joseph Bajada, Sexual Impotence: The Contribution of Paolo Zacchia, 1584-1659, (Rome: Editrice Pontificia Università Gregoriana, 1988), pp.44-45.

(http://tinyurl.com/659sgyx)
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #1 - June 22, 2011, 11:06 AM

Surprise surprise!

Youtube
- iSoK
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #2 - June 22, 2011, 01:21 PM

It's an interesting point you bring up Klingschor, but I hope I can give you a different perspective.
Suppose a new Prophet would come now and he would claim that the Earth is flat, no one would believe him even if
it was true.

The idea above about semen was present for a long time after the Qur'an was revealed.

I think the verse here is an example on how the Qur'an does not want to ruin the idea's of a certain civillisation.
Whether they are wrong or correct doesn't matter. The search for knowledge is more important.
The Qur'an allows a civillisation to reflect it's current understanding of the universe, it's like a mirror.
A mirror which will not intervene in aspects of science for example, but will allow human beings to find
their own way.

The Qur'an is for moral guidance, the first part of the verse is far more important.
So let man observe from what he was created.

I'll give you a few examples.

The Qur'an uses the word 'sperm or semen' in multiple verses.

(18:37) While conversing with him his neighbour exclaimed: "Do you deny Him Who created you out of dust, then out of a drop of sperm, and then fashioned you into a complete man?

(22:5) O mankind! If you have any doubt concerning Resurrection, then know that it is surely We Who created you from dust, then from a drop of sperm

(35:11) Allah created you from dust, then from a drop of sperm, then He made you into pairs. No female conceives, nor delivers (a child) except with His knowledge. None is given a long life nor is any diminished in his life but it is written in a Book. Surely that is quite easy for Allah.

(36:77) Does man not see that We created him of a sperm drop, and lo! he is flagrantly contentious?

(40:67) He it is Who created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clot; then He brings you out as an infant, then causes you to grow into full maturity, and then causes you to grow further so that you may reach old age, while some of you He recalls earlier. All this is in order that you may reach an appointed term and that you may understand (the Truth).

(53:46) from a drop of sperm when it was emitted,

(56:58) Did you ever consider the sperm that you emit?

(76:2) Verily We created man out of a drop of intermingled sperm so that We might try him, and We therefore endowed him with hearing and sight.

(80:19) Out of a sperm-drop did He create him and then determined a measure for him,

(75:37) Was he not a drop of ejaculated semen,

So we can see that the Qur'an continuosly uses these words.
Let's look back at the verse you mentioned.

Qur'an - 86:6

Sahih International
He was created from a fluid, ejected,

Muhsin Khan
He is created from a water gushing forth.

Pickthall
He is created from a gushing fluid

Yusuf Ali
He is created from a drop emitted-

Shakir
He is created of water pouring forth,

Dr. Ghali
He was created from effusive water,

The question rises here:

Why is it the only verse of countless verses where the Author does want to use the word semen/sperm but instead
of that He uses vague terms? Especially if it was copied from an advanced civillisation.
The only explanation here is that the Author was aware of the situation....

I think that the Author here meant blood for our age and sperm for the past.
Whatever it is, isn't important.
What more important is the first part of the verse, as I said before, it has a moral lesson for us all.

A verse like this gives me proof, it gives you rope.

Your video's are probably a source for many Muslims to leave their faith, it causes troubles
at home since unfortunately they can't tell their family about their feelings.
Some have doubts for years and years and become depressed.

So do not claim Greatness Klingschor, not believing is one thing.
But actively making video's in order tot sustain your pride, irrespective in destroying other people's reality is another.

Fire has the same qualities, it grows and it grows and it doesn't care about the reailities it destroys.
The only important thing is it's own growth. Fire is ultimately answered with Fire.

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #3 - June 22, 2011, 01:37 PM

That's possibly the weakest excuse I've ever heard uttered by a religious apologist.

"The Qur'an was supposed to be wrong."

I mean... seriously? Is this what it has come to?

Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #4 - June 22, 2011, 02:14 PM

Quote from: iSoK on June 22, 2011, 01:21 PM
The question rises here:

Why is it the only verse of countless verses where the Author does want to use the word semen/sperm but instead
of that He uses vague terms? Especially if it was copied from an advanced civillisation.
The only explanation here is that the Author was aware of the situation....

I think that the Author here meant blood for our age and sperm for the past.
Whatever it is, isn't important.
What more important is the first part of the verse, as I said before, it has a moral lesson for us all.

A verse like this gives me proof, it gives you rope.

Your video's are probably a source for many Muslims to leave their faith, it causes troubles
at home since unfortunately they can't tell their family about their feelings.
Some have doubts for years and years and become depressed.

So do not claim Greatness Klingschor, not believing is one thing.
But actively making video's in order tot sustain your pride, irrespective in destroying other people's reality is another.

Fire has the same qualities, it grows and it grows and it doesn't care about the reailities it destroys.
The only important thing is it's own growth. Fire is ultimately answered with Fire.

Is he rapping?

Does anyone understand the fuck hes saying? Me neither.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #5 - June 22, 2011, 04:27 PM

Kingslichor:

Kudos! High Five!

"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #6 - June 22, 2011, 04:43 PM

Quote from: iSoK on June 22, 2011, 01:21 PM
Your video's are probably a source for many Muslims to leave their faith, it causes troubles
at home since unfortunately they can't tell their family about their feelings.
Some have doubts for years and years and become depressed.

So do not claim Greatness Klingschor, not believing is one thing.
But actively making video's in order tot sustain your pride, irrespective in destroying other people's reality is another.

lawl.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #7 - June 22, 2011, 05:41 PM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on June 22, 2011, 04:43 PM
lawl.

Haha!

That statement (iSoKs) reminded me on this Ibsen play called "The Wild Duck", a family drama, where one of the characters (Relling) says regarding mans illusions: Rob the average man of his life-illusion, and you rob him of his happiness at the same stroke.

This is called the "life-lie" (lystløgn). If you remove it - you remove the individuals happiness. But the big question is what reality does Kingslichor destroy with his videos? Or what happiness is removed? None! His videos just as a lot of other peoples videos are telling it as it should be regarding islam (and sometimes religion in general). That you live in an illusion - not a reality. And in every ways - its up to yourself to get rid of the illusion that Islams sells you. Instead of grasping to it like a little child and his sweets.

The play: http://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/IbsWild.html

"Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #8 - June 23, 2011, 01:18 AM

Ultimately, for each one of us, life is about finding happiness.
Everyone of us lives on a path of belief, of faith. Some might not acknowledge that.

Let's say that I'm wrong about Islam and that God doesn't exist.
Even then, why would people make all sort of video's to 'prove' that Islam is wrong?

I cannot see any other reason than stimulating personal pride / the desire to be admired by the community / seeking fame
That is probably the source of their happiness at the cost of destroying the reality of others. A gains, B loses.

Or is there a higher purpose than this selfish idea?

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #9 - June 23, 2011, 01:20 AM

1) Do you have any interest in finding the truth (elusive as it is)?

2) Why do you assume feeling... Muslim... is a better life?
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #10 - June 23, 2011, 01:28 AM

1) There is no such thing as an external universal truth, there is only an internal truth which is different for each person.
But I am of course interested in what you've got to say about life.

2) Because faith is natural, why should I change that which is natural in the first place?
Weren't you happier as a Muslim, Spinoza?

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #11 - June 23, 2011, 01:40 AM

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 01:18 AM
Ultimately, for each one of us, life is about finding happiness.
Everyone of us lives on a path of belief, of faith. Some might not acknowledge that.

Let's say that I'm wrong about Islam and that God doesn't exist.
Even then, why would people make all sort of video's to 'prove' that Islam is wrong?

I cannot see any other reason than stimulating personal pride / the desire to be admired by the community / seeking fame
That is probably the source of their happiness at the cost of destroying the reality of others. A gains, B loses.

Or is there a higher purpose than this selfish idea?

i don't think it's selfish to make videos expressing one's opinions, it merely opens up a new type of forum for discussion on issues. it's nothing to do with 'sustaining pride' at all, it's merely an arena for any type of (hopefully) civil discussion.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #12 - June 23, 2011, 01:43 AM

What is the point of discussion, to what should it lead?

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #13 - June 23, 2011, 01:44 AM

a greater understanding of one's own views, and the views of others that may oppose it.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #14 - June 23, 2011, 01:52 AM

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 01:28 AM
1) There is no such thing as an external universal truth, there is only an internal truth which is different for each person.

God I just love epistemologists. That there are subjective truths does not mean that there can't be an objective Truth.

Quote
2) Because faith is natural, why should I change that which is natural in the first place?

Probably for the same reason we stopped pissing in bushes.

Not that Atheism means you're suddenly immune from all faith - just the sky-fairy kind.

Quote
Weren't you happier as a Muslim, Spinoza?

No, I was apathetic and lethargic and uncaring. I was rarely sad or depressed, but that isn't the same as being happy. It was a hollow existence. Belief in an eternal, all important after-life tends to makes this life lose meaning.

I had a period of depression last summer when I had to come to terms with death and a lack of objective purpose, but that was only there because Islam made me think otherwise. It's all well and good for people to be happy in their comforting delusions, but those delusions can fall apart. And then what?

A fulfilling life is not one where you are content all the time. Pain is as much a part of our existence as pleasure. Sorrow gives joy meaning. You can keep your childish, shallow fairy tales and your protective bubble, because you so fear what's out there. You are afraid of the world. A braver life is about weighing up the jump into the unknown, realising how much you can hurt and how much you have to lose, and then jumping anyway. You are free to stay at home, but don't try to hold the rest of us back.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #15 - June 23, 2011, 02:03 AM

Quote from: serrated_colon on June 23, 2011, 01:44 AM
a greater understanding of one's own views, and the views of others that may oppose it.

I would disagree.

To understand one's view, there is no need to publish it for a wide audience
in the sense of 'you are wrong and I am right'.

It's basically extending your own view without caring for other people, destroying other
realities so you can fuel your own.

The atheist has nothing to lose, the believer has something to lose.
It's not chocolate that he is losing but his whole view on life, his source of happiness.
Losing that makes people enjoy life far less and the first few years most people are depressed.

So is this all worth to find the 'truth'? Which is different for each one of us, it's foundation lies always in faith.
Especially if the purpose of life is to find happiness.

While from atheism to theism you gain something instead of losing.

Weren't you happier as a Muslim? What did 'truth' add to your quality of life?

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #16 - June 23, 2011, 02:06 AM

Quote from: iSoK says to Prince Spinoza on June 23, 2011, 01:28 AM
1) There is no such thing as an external universal truth, there is only an internal truth which is different for each person.
But I am of course interested in what you've got to say about life.

2) Because faith is natural, why should I change that which is natural in the first place?
Weren't you happier as a Muslim, Spinoza?

Hmm... I am reading some prophetic words from iSoK., I haven't read any posts from him. I guess i am missing lot of good stuff.

You appears to be right when you say" There is no such thing as an external universal truth " dear ISok., On that basis I can say that

"there is neither external truth nor internal truth.. It is Just Truth and Truth is truth"

In the same way .. This happiness has no boundaries.., It is like beauty., it is in the eyes of beholder.

Any ways greetings and my good wishes to you and I formally welcome you to CEMB dear iSok...

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #17 - June 23, 2011, 02:10 AM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on June 23, 2011, 01:52 AM
God I just love epistemologists. That there are subjective truths does not mean that there can't be an objective Truth.

Probably for the same reason we stopped pissing in bushes.

Not that Atheism means you're suddenly immune from all faith - just the sky-fairy kind.

No, I was apathetic and lethargic and uncaring. I was rarely sad or depressed, but that isn't the same as being happy. It was a hollow existence. Belief in an eternal, all important after-life tends to makes this life lose meaning.

I had a period of depression last summer when I had to come to terms with death and a lack of objective purpose, but that was only there because Islam made me think otherwise. It's all well and good for people to be happy in their comforting delusions, but those delusions can fall apart. And then what?

A fulfilling life is not one where you are content all the time. Pain is as much a part of our existence as pleasure. Sorrow gives joy meaning. You can keep your childish, shallow fairy tales and your protective bubble, because you so fear what's out there. You are afraid of the world. A braver life is about weighing up the jump into the unknown, realising how much you can hurt and how much you have to lose, and then jumping anyway. You are free to stay at home, but don't try to hold the rest of us back.

The only thing I fear is an eternal life, which makes it hard for me to be a believer.
No one cares whether you are brave or not Spinoza, we will all be forgotten.
What counts is whether we enjoyed life.

It has never been my intention to pull you back in Spinoza, if that's the way you want to define it.
My problem lies with people pulling others out of their safety bell.

The only reason I see, is because they don't want to be alone in that place which is not meant for them.

Quote from: yeezevee on June 23, 2011, 02:06 AM
Hmm... I am reading some prophetic words from iSoK., I haven't read any posts from him. I guess i am missing lot of good stuff.

You appears to be right when you say" There is no such thing as an external universal truth " dear ISok., On that basis I can say that

"there is neither external truth nor internal truth.. It is Just Truth and Truth is truth"

In the same way .. This happiness has no boundaries.., It is like beauty., it is in the eyes of beholder.

Any ways greetings and my good wishes to you and I formally welcome you to CEMB dear iSok...

Thank you for the wishes Yeezevee.

Yes Truth exists, but the question here is whether we are living on Truth.

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #18 - June 23, 2011, 02:12 AM

iSoK, would you advocate we stop pulling toddlers from their mother's arms and thrusting them into the world because, after all, the toddler is safe there and why should they be forced into the wider world away from their supposed safety and happiness?

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #19 - June 23, 2011, 02:19 AM

Hello Z10,

I would not agree with the analogy you draw.

A toddler finds happiness when he/she grows and becomes independent and starts taking care of his/her
family in an independent way to repay for what was done in the past. Most of the time this means
improvement in happiness.

The picture I draw, is a picture of loss, no gains. Generally speaking religious people are happier and live longer.

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #20 - June 23, 2011, 02:20 AM

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:03 AM
The atheist has nothing to lose, the believer has something to lose.
It's not chocolate that he is losing but his whole view on life, his source of happiness.
Losing that makes people enjoy life far less and the first few years most people are depressed.

What is this shit? How would you know? How many times have you been an ex-muslim?

When people stop flying planes into buildings and stop trying to get gays executed, because that's what the voice in their head wants, come back to me and tell me we have nothing to lose.

Quote
So is this all worth to find the 'truth'? Which is different for each one of us, it's foundation lies always in faith.

That may be, but Islamic faith is unworthy of a fulfilling human life.

Quote
Especially if the purpose of life is to find happiness.

Yes, let's caricaturise all atheists as capricious hedonists.

Quote
While from atheism to theism you gain something instead of losing.

You lose a lot more. Tell me, what do you gain?

Quote
What did 'truth' add to your quality of life?

It added life itself. Fleeting, ephemeral, terrifying, wondrous, beautiful, obscure. Keep your certainty and contentment. I want more.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #21 - June 23, 2011, 02:23 AM

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:03 AM
I would disagree.

To understand one's view, there is no need to publish it for a wide audience
in the sense of 'you are wrong and I am right'.

personally i only present my views in the sense that 'i think this is a tenable position but i might be wrong as i'm a bit dumb sometimes', but i do agree that the 'you are wrong and i am right' tone is not a good one to have. however, that was not the point you were making. you were saying expression of one's views towards a wider audience in general was out of sustaining self-pride, which is the point i was disagreeing with.

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:03 AM
It's basically extending your own view without caring for other people, destroying other
realities so you can fuel your own.

not really. i do not intend to 'destroy people's realities', i only merely intend to express my views for those who might listen. those who want to engage my views, can do so and i would hope to respond in a civil manner. i have no agenda that i want to fulfil except the agenda of hopefully learning what people may find wrong with my ideas, and whether my ideas can be improved.

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:03 AM
The atheist has nothing to lose, the believer has something to lose.
It's not chocolate that he is losing but his whole view on life, his source of happiness.
Losing that makes people enjoy life far less and the first few years most people are depressed.

except for the fact that it is not us forcing them to 'lose' their whole views on life, merely that we are expressing why we don't share these views on life.

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:03 AM
So is this all worth to find the 'truth'? Which is different for each one of us, it's foundation lies always in faith.
Especially if the purpose of life is to find happiness.

my purpose in life is not to be happy, my purpose in life is to merely live it as best i can, learn as much as i can and experience as much as i can. ebb and flow between happiness and depression allow us to grow as individuals and somehow make sense of it all.

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:03 AM
While from atheism to theism you gain something instead of losing.
Weren't you happier as a Muslim? What did 'truth' add to your quality of life?

in fact, i think i gained a lot more when i left islam than any convert to islam. i gained a wider understanding of the fact that people have different ideas, concepts and foundations for their worldviews. i learnt not to dismiss these views off-hand and to, when engaging views that opposed mine, attempt to think about what would make such worldviews tenable, and if i disagreed, engage the individual on what made these views untenable.

i gained a humility towards the fact that there's a lot of shit i don't know. lots of things i haven't figured out and many issues of which my knowledge is naive or even non-existant.

would i have had these with islam? nope, since the worldview is laid out for you in black and white(and shades of grey depending on which perspective you see it from).

also, i don't claim that i have the 'truth'. i don't even claim that i 'seek' the truth, as i have no conception of what 'truth' is right now apart from a tacit assumption.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #22 - June 23, 2011, 02:25 AM

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:19 AM
Hello Z10,

I would not agree with the analogy you draw.

A toddler finds happiness when he/she grows and becomes independent and starts taking care of his/her
family in an independent way to repay for what was done in the past. Most of the time this means
improvement in happiness.

The picture I draw, is a picture of loss, no gains. Generally speaking religious people are happier and live longer.

I think that the analogy is fair. After all, there are many toddlers that grow up and do not find happiness and commit suicide for instance. There are also many that find forms of happiness beyond the comforts of their mother.
Similarly, it is possible that there are many that find happiness outside of the comforts of organised dogma. I do not think you can argue that one is always necessarily suffering loss if one leaves religion.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #23 - June 23, 2011, 02:35 AM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on June 23, 2011, 02:20 AM

When people stop flying planes into buildings and stop trying to get gays executed, because that's what the voice in their head wants, come back to me and tell me we have nothing to lose.

Can we also stop people of invading other countries for the sake of oil?
Or waging 'Jihad' for the sake of war, so the economy will keep rolling no matter how much blood is spilled?
And say that those that are trambled are scheming to justify even more war for the sake of wealth and power?
Showing planes flying into a building on a screen dozen times a day doesn't increase the act in brutality...

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on June 23, 2011, 02:20 AM

That may be, but Islamic faith is unworthy of a fulfilling human life.

Many would disagree

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on June 23, 2011, 02:20 AM
Yes, let's caricaturise all atheists as capricious hedonists.

I never said that, I said that with being an atheist you lose a bit of your happiness.

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on June 23, 2011, 02:20 AM
You lose a lot more. Tell me, what do you gain?

A purpose.
Quote from: Prince Spinoza on June 23, 2011, 02:20 AM
It added life itself. Fleeting, ephemeral, terrifying, wondrous, beautiful, obscure. Keep your certainty and contentment. I want more.

So if the truth was simple and clear, you wouldn't accept it?

Spinoza, no hard feelings here nor do I want to offend you.
But I started about certain persons making video's to pull other people out of their what you call 'safety bell'.
So they won't be lonely, I never asked why they stepped out in the first place nor am I interested in that.

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #24 - June 23, 2011, 02:41 AM

Quote from: z10 on June 23, 2011, 02:25 AM
I think that the analogy is fair. After all, there are many toddlers that grow up and do not find happiness and commit suicide for instance. There are also many that find forms of happiness beyond the comforts of their mother.
Similarly, it is possible that there are many that find happiness outside of the comforts of organised dogma. I do not think you can argue that one is always necessarily suffering loss if one leaves religion.

Of course there are always exceptions.
But generally speaking:

- Most toddlers that grow independent are happier than those living with their mother.
- Religious people are happier, less depressed and live longer than non-religious.

So the analogy doesn't stand.

But can I give you a certain analogy which I hope you can answer?

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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #25 - June 23, 2011, 02:47 AM

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:41 AM
Of course there are always exceptions.
But generally speaking:

- Most toddlers that grow independent are happier than those living with their mother.
- Religious people are happier, less depressed and live longer than non-religious.

So the analogy doesn't stand.

But can I give you a certain analogy which I hope you can answer?

Sure, but the fact that there are exceptions to your general statement means that there are gains to be had from being non-religious and therefore klingschor is not engaged in a soul-destroying activity. Being happy whether as a religious or a non-religious person rests on far more than exclusively religious belief.

And yes, you may say whatever you like.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
- iSoK
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #26 - June 23, 2011, 03:01 AM

Of course there are exceptions.
But one side of the coin in 'finding happiness' is winning with a great advantage.
This is only in the case if a certain dogma isn't true in the end.

Things will be worse however if that 'safety bell' was true after all, then people
will be responsible for pulling others out even if there were a few exceptions who gained more happiness.

The analogy between the human being and the universe:

Everything in the universe works by laws that do not change.
Because of these laws there is an organisation, which allows the universe to exist.
Everything seems to be in balance.

Our physical structure is submitted to these laws.

-We cannot jump of a building without gravity killing us.
-We cannot jump in a crater of molten magma without burning ourselves.
-We cannot breath under water without suffocating.

So in our existence we seem to be very restricted, our physical structure
follows these laws without negotation.
However there is one thing within our existence that has not submitted.
And seems to have it's own way.
I'm talking about the intention within our consciousness.
Consciousness doesn't seem to be from this world, since we can't dissect it like other
forms of matter within our reality. It also transcends our reality.
We can think of something like God.

So if there's a religion which claims that one has to submit with their intention to a Law (some may call it an organised dogma)
to find peace for oneself and to restore and maintain a balance.

Is that reasonable?

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #27 - June 23, 2011, 03:08 AM

I'm sorry iSoK but I don't understand what you are trying to say. Man is different from the universe because man is conscious? Where do you go from there?

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #28 - June 23, 2011, 03:13 AM

I meant that the whole universe works by laws that are imposed on it.
Without these laws the universe would not exist.
(laws of physics, law of gravity for example)

While our physical structure does follow laws.
The only thing that doesn't follow a law is our consciousness, our intention.

So is it reasonable that there will come a law after death that will be imposed on our consciousness?

The Noble Qur'an - Verily God does not change a people's condition unless they change their inner selves.
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Re: The Qur'an Plagiarised from Hellenic Semen Theory
Reply #29 - June 23, 2011, 03:16 AM

Quote from: iSoK on June 23, 2011, 02:35 AM
Can we also stop people of invading other countries for the sake of oil?
Or waging 'Jihad' for the sake of war, so the economy will keep rolling no matter how much blood is spilled?

Are you trolling? "We can;t fix everything. So let's fix nothing."

Quote
Many would disagree

Sure, they have that right. And Klingy is giving them the opportunity to express it.

Quote
I never said that, I said that with being an atheist you lose a bit of your happiness.

How many times have you been an atheist?

Quote
A purpose.

To submit to a petulant tyrant. It's disgusting.

Quote
So if the truth was simple and clear, you wouldn't accept it?

If there is one thing I've learnt, is that the true isn't clear.

Quote
But I started about certain persons making video's to pull other people out of their what you call 'safety bell'.

Yes and it's so condescending. Like people are children whose world-views we mustn't disrupt. Santa is real, babies come from storks and the money under your pillow was left by a fairy.
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