Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed

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- Adey5
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Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
OP - July 11, 2011, 09:26 PM

Just wondered if anyone watched it and what were your thoughts? It's a 3 part series I think so another one next monday.

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #1 - July 11, 2011, 09:41 PM

Hey Adey. I think you know this, but you've duplicated threads. I wanted to comment on tonights programme, but your duplication has really thrown me. I'm not sure which thread to use now? The indecision is paralysing me. And being sat on a toilet seat is not the most comfortable place to be paralysed. I sincerely hope I get past this soon.

Anyways, about tonights programme: aaaah, fuck it....doesn't matter...forget I said anything.

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #2 - July 11, 2011, 09:48 PM

Quote from: musivore on July 11, 2011, 09:41 PM
Hey Adey. I think you know this, but you've duplicated threads. I wanted to comment on tonights programme, but your duplication has really thrown me. I'm not sure which thread to use now? The indecision is paralysing me. And being sat on a toilet seat is not the most comfortable place to be paralysed. I sincerely hope I get past this soon.

Anyways, about tonights programme: aaaah, fuck it....doesn't matter...forget I said anything.

Ummm eew .. don't really want to know that.

Get your butt (bad choice of words) on to my new thread cause I'm dying with indecision too .. regarding my avatar ..
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #3 - July 11, 2011, 10:08 PM

Will do zaibs.

Btw, adey, I'm off the toilet now. And I've remembered what I wanted to say: why did the program mention that the Satanic Verses bit was disputed by most muslim scholars? I thought the story was based on strong, consistent hadith?

The reason I ask is cause my muslim wife went fucking mental during that bit. All I did was ask her to pay attention during it (to sow the seeds of doubt in her mind: long story adey). She's now accusing me of being the devil himself. I'm chuffed at the compliment.

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- Zaiba
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #4 - July 11, 2011, 10:10 PM

Oh no.
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #5 - July 12, 2011, 08:13 AM

Quote from: musivore on July 11, 2011, 10:08 PM
why did the program mention that the Satanic Verses bit was disputed by most muslim scholars?

^^ Does anybody know the answer to this?

I’ve found the following info in a quick search I did:

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Satanic_Verses

So I was wondering how ‘most’ Muslim scholars are able to deny the incident?

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- yeezevee
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #6 - July 12, 2011, 08:55 AM

So How was that "Life of Muhammad" documentary?? it says
Quote
In a ground-breaking first for British television, this three-part series presented by Rageh Omaar charts the life of Muhammad, a man who - for the billion and half Muslims across the globe - is the messenger and final prophet of God.

In a journey that is both literal and historical, and beginning in Muhammad's birthplace of Mecca, Omaar investigates the Arabia Muhammad was born into - a world of tribal loyalties and polytheistic religion.

Drawing on the expertise and comment of some of the world's leading academics and commentators on Islam, the programme examines Muhammad's first marriage to Khadijah and how he received the first of the revelations that had such a profound effect both on his life, and on the lives of those closest to him.

For more info visit the BBC link for the programme;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012mkg5

The Life of Muhammad - BBC - Episode 1/3 - Part 1 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsAy6fbSLkA

The Life of Muhammad - BBC - Episode 1/3 - Part 2 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je3OVfOoc-U

The Life of Muhammad - BBC - Episode 1/3 - Part 3 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB0Qhm4q7bU

The Life of Muhammad - BBC - Episode 1/3 - Part 4 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sPn0vopRYs

Historian got everything wrong on " Muhammad" ., Muhammad of 'Quran " and Muhammad of Hadith are different characters put together to make Islamic story. If this documentary was made in 1995 ., Rageh Omaar head would have been separated from his neck...

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #7 - July 12, 2011, 08:09 PM

Hi Musivore, sorry I didnt realise I had duplicated a thread. If there is another thread covering this programme, perhaps you can forward me the link and I would me more than happy to post there.

Oh and PS. Didnt mean to interrupt your visit to the throne room. Being indecisive on the bog is dangerous and if the wind changes it can lead to you being stuck there FOREVER!!

For me personally, I dont know if I am indecisive or not ;-)

I am better than your god......and so are you.

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #8 - July 12, 2011, 08:26 PM

It comes as no surprise to me that they would dispute it as it casts doubt on the 'divine revelations'. Whether its in the hadiths or not, it seems that if it supports the quran, its a strong hadith, and if it refutes it (as in this case) is it either weak or a lie.

I bet Salman Rushdie wasnt surprised that most mulim scholars reject it. It's embarrasing to the cause I guess.

Sorry to hear this part caused probelms with your Mrs. I wont ask for details. I hope she comes round and sees the light some day.

PS if anyone is interested, I am not an ex-muslim. I am an atheist. Questioning, doubting and refuting religious (mainly Xtianity) claims is kind of a hobby of mine. I hope no-one minds if I post here and give my tuppence-worth every so often. With regards to islam, I am a newbie and just learning the basic claims of islam. But it seems no less ridiculous to any other religion if you ask me.

My best mate (a muslim) urged me to watch it, thinking it would prove that allah is The One True God (TM), but the programme seemed more of an historic account of his life and the claims he made than a confirmation of the claims themselves.

I am better than your god......and so are you.

"Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #9 - July 12, 2011, 08:30 PM

Lol adey...I need to catch up on your intro sometime...

Anyways, can't copy a link on my phone. At least, I don't know how to. But the thread you need is in the Miscellaneous section (yours is posted in a better place IMO - take note Kod), and is called Documentary about Mo on bbc2, or something along those lines).

Welcome to the forum btw

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- musivore
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #10 - July 12, 2011, 08:40 PM

Quote from: Adey5 on July 12, 2011, 08:26 PM
It comes as no surprise to me that they would dispute it as it casts doubt on the 'divine revelations'. Whether its in the hadiths or not, it seems that if it supports the quran, its a strong hadith, and if it refutes it (as in this case) is it either weak or a lie.

I bet Salman Rushdie wasnt surprised that most mulim scholars reject it. It's embarrasing to the cause I guess.

Sorry to hear this part caused probelms with your Mrs. I wont ask for details. I hope she comes round and sees the light some day.

PS if anyone is interested, I am not an ex-muslim. I am an atheist. Questioning, doubting and refuting religious (mainly Xtianity) claims is kind of a hobby of mine. I hope no-one minds if I post here and give my tuppence-worth every so often. With regards to islam, I am a newbie and just learning the basic claims of islam. But it seems no less ridiculous to any other religion if you ask me.

My best mate (a muslim) urged me to watch it, thinking it would prove that allah is The One True God (TM), but the programme seemed more of an historic account of his life and the claims he made than a confirmation of the claims themselves.

Thanks for this. Was looking for an answer to this today. From what I gathered, it is a weak hadith, in that the account originated from the oral tradition and was written down two generations after Mo's companions had died. Nonetheless, it was written down by an ardent muslim and one that has mainly proven to be a reliable chronicler. To most neutral observers, it seems hard to believe that an ardent muslim would make up something so obviously defamatory about Mo. In other words, muslims would never have created this ugly smoke, had there not been some kind of fire. So, it probably did happen (in some form).

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- musivore
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #11 - July 12, 2011, 08:44 PM

Btw, your voice is a welcome one. The more the merrier on here.

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- billy
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #12 - July 18, 2011, 07:23 PM

I saw the first episode.

Was as I expected it to be, high production values, a faint finger-wagging tone, basically apologia. Lets face it, the BBC are not really going to produce a critique of Mohammad, because of the death-taboo associated with criticisms of Mo, as well as fear of being accused of 'Islamophobia'. In many ways the BBC views itself as having a remit of providing 'positive' spin on Islam, and doesn't care about the amount of dawaganda it provides because of that.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #13 - July 18, 2011, 07:51 PM

Hey, welcome back mate

Good to see you didn't switch off whilst away.

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #14 - July 18, 2011, 07:54 PM

Cheers fella.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #15 - July 18, 2011, 07:58 PM

Yeah, great to see you again, Billy
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #16 - July 18, 2011, 08:12 PM

Thanks pal

Did you see the first episode Hassan? Was pretty much standard narrative stuff on the life of Muhammad, as seen by Muslim narratives.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #17 - July 18, 2011, 08:24 PM

hi billy

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #18 - July 18, 2011, 08:41 PM

Word Up, HO

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #19 - July 18, 2011, 08:52 PM

The doc is still biased so far :(

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #20 - July 18, 2011, 09:08 PM

Don't expect anything else, ChinaDoll. It was always going to be so. The BBC will never present a true critique of Mo, for all the reasons I described above.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #21 - July 18, 2011, 09:11 PM

I expected a lot out of todays episode since they were talking about the jews you are right funny a muslim also told me that too .........is it me or is Tariq Ramadhan sexy :O

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #22 - July 18, 2011, 09:26 PM

I still like it. Lame though it is, it gives me a chance to discuss Islam in a seemingly innocent way with my wife. Last week, we got to discuss the Satanic Verses (though I barely came away from that discussion with my life). This week, the Jewish massacre. Surely, she will thaw a little if we continue this way? I'm dying for her to turn around one day and say, 'You're right, he was a bit of a cock.' Here's to hoping.

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #23 - July 18, 2011, 09:48 PM

Yep, can't argue with hope for a thawing.

Dare I ask, how was the banu qurayza killings dealt with? Was Mo painted as blameless? Need I ask?

Its connect the dots you see. The things he did, don't square with his elevation to perfect man for humanity. If his sunnah is to be followed and submitted to, in which case, Islam directly implicates itself in his degeneracy. Mohammad is the achilles heel of Islam.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #24 - July 18, 2011, 10:09 PM

You're so right, he is the achilles heel, and it's the one that I've chosen to work on.

The massacre was dealt with deliberate care. The language was apologetic, and the excuses for the act were given in abundance, and before the deed was even mentioned. Very little detail was given of the massacre, and very little blame was assigned on Mo's shoulder's for the killings. In fact, the whole thing was done with such care that the average viewer would feel that the act was justified and in proportion for the context within which it was being described.

Because of all this, my wife did not have to reach for any excuses, she just had to pluck the ones that had already been elegantly presented to her. In fact, the apologetic portrayal was done so well that my wife almost felt as if I was clutching at straws by bringing up the matter.

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #25 - July 18, 2011, 10:39 PM

Quote from: musivore on July 18, 2011, 10:09 PM

The massacre was dealt with deliberate care. The language was apologetic, and the excuses for the act were given in abundance, and before the deed was even mentioned. Very little detail was given of the massacre, and very little blame was assigned on Mo's shoulder's for the killings. In fact, the whole thing was done with such care that the average viewer would feel that the act was justified and in proportion for the context within which it was being described.

Thanks for that, BBC ^^^

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #26 - July 18, 2011, 10:41 PM

Well I must admit I disagree, during discussion of the massacre, they only allowed the Jewish expert to talk, one said: how can a prophet order the killing of a whole tribe, or something like that. I didn't think they gave Muslim Historian point of view on the massacre part.

The change of the Qiblah from Jerusalem to Mecca was something I totally forgot about, very interesting too, did he change it immediately after the Isra’a and Mi’raj or after they conquered Mecca?

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #27 - July 18, 2011, 10:49 PM

Seems I wanted more. And you wanted less. Maybe they got the balance right after all?

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #28 - July 18, 2011, 10:53 PM

I didn't want less, I wanted an equal chance to be given to both Islamic and Jewish experts, during that part I believe most of the talking was done by Jewish experts filmed in from synagogues. Am not defending, but wanted to hear the Muslims explanation, true the presenter stated the Islamic explanation, but it would have been good to hear it from the Muslim historians.

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Re: Tonight's BBC2 documentary on muhammed
Reply #29 - July 18, 2011, 10:57 PM

IMO, it had more authority coming from the narrator himself.

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