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 Topic: Apostasy and Attractiveness

 (Read 16634 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Apostasy and Attractiveness
     OP - July 13, 2011, 02:59 PM
    So I didn't know where to put this, and this seemed like the most relevant section.

    Perusing through the "post a pic" thread, I realize that you guys and gals do rate highly on the attractiveness scale. Of course, the thread is a small sample of the entire population of CEMB, which in turn is a smaller sample of the entire apostate community. Then there's a bias for self-selection, and a whole plethora of identification issues.

    Needless to say, my 'intuition' from that thread gives me reasons to hypothesis some connection between physical attractiveness and apostasy. Allow me to explain.

    People who are physically attractive usually, at some level, know that they are and their self worth is at least existent. Furthermore, people gravitate to physically attractive people (I'm not citing anything because I don't care to, however you are welcome to bring in counter-citations to the effect or refute my assumptions like  this one), and I would imagine the physically attractive are exposed to more experiences than say an average or less than average looking person.

    Some of these experiences would include sex and sexuality (by far a large number of people who have posted here have mentioned something or other regarding apostasy and sex), alcohol, and/or drugs. I mention these because the more people you know or hang out with, the more likely it is that you will be introduced to these concepts or substances.

    Nonetheless, I am very interested in what others think. Can physical attractiveness, like IQ, affect apostasy?
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #1 - July 13, 2011, 03:12 PM
    First you need to find an objective way of measuring physical attractiveness Tongue
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #2 - July 13, 2011, 03:14 PM
    Mmm.. interesting. I have always liked the thought that women dressed like potato bags did so because they are too ugly for normal clothes  Wink
    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #3 - July 13, 2011, 03:17 PM
    Its hard to say: Some people on here are quite attractive, but certain ethnicities just tend to have people that are statistically likely to be attractive, especially at our age groups, imo.

    Personally I would say no, although I've made plenty of jokes in the past about ugly muslims sticking with the faith as the only guaranteed way to find a wife/husband  Insert evil laugh
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #4 - July 13, 2011, 03:18 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on July 13, 2011, 03:12 PM
    First you need to find an objective way of measuring physical attractiveness Tongue


    Excellent point. Let's say symmetry and balanced features of the face (again, I'm not going to cite this but I've seen it around...).
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #5 - July 13, 2011, 03:23 PM
    No. You're all ugly fuckers.
    Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #6 - July 13, 2011, 03:23 PM
    Anybody can get laid and drink alcohol.  Cheesy

    Or drink alcohol and get laid. And that usually happens in succession.  Tongue
    Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #7 - July 13, 2011, 03:27 PM
    Quote from: Peppermint Tits on July 13, 2011, 03:23 PM
    No. You're all ugly fuckers.


    -_-

    Quote from: Peppermint Tits on July 13, 2011, 03:23 PM
    Anybody can get laid and drink alcohol.  Cheesy

    Or drink alcohol and get laid. And that usually happens in succession.  Tongue


    Says the winner of Ms. Somewhere  Roll Eyes
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #8 - July 13, 2011, 03:31 PM
    Quote from: kleine Bruder on July 13, 2011, 03:18 PM
    Excellent point. Let's say symmetry and balanced features of the face (again, I'm not going to cite this but I've seen it around...).


    Symmetry and balanced features eh? You mean, like this?
    Attached image is missing * balanced features.jpg (15.29 KB, 250x375 - viewed 557 times.)
    Hi
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #9 - July 13, 2011, 03:34 PM
    Quote from: musivore on July 13, 2011, 03:31 PM
    Symmetry and balanced features eh? You mean, like this?



    Granted that's symmetric, it is in no way balanced (nose is not even there, forehead in proportion to the nose is too large, eyes are a little too close, etc.). Also, 'balanced' from here on will be for human faces.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #10 - July 13, 2011, 03:35 PM
    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    This is a funny thread!
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #11 - July 13, 2011, 03:38 PM
    I think what you are doing is trying to apply all the best traits to apostates snce this is now your in-group. You know, that desire of people to believe that the group they belong to somehow is better than the other groups?  yea, that seems ot be part of this need to believe that attractiveness, and IQ in your group are better and potentially even the cause of the new in-group.

    Not saying people are not attractive here, but no, I do not think you can equate the two.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #12 - July 13, 2011, 03:42 PM
    Yes true Berbs, you cannot infer causation between apostasy and attractiveness or IQ.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #13 - July 13, 2011, 03:43 PM
    I'm very average looking,  my parents were considered attractive between the ages of 20-40 but I just turned out to look OK.

    I'm happy with that, I don't think there is a correlation if that's what you are suggesting, I also think that if you aren't very happy with your looks you're unlikely to post your pictures.

    To each his own I suppose, and some people are attracted to certain features and ideals, myself, I find myself usually attracted to women who have a northern european look, or an east african look, I still find people attractive as individuals, but there seem to be certain correlations.

    I've ranted enough.
    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #14 - July 13, 2011, 04:08 PM
    IMO,  religious people are way more attractive than Apostates. Especially the ones that don't even pray/follow their religion but just believe it just in case. Cheesy
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #15 - July 13, 2011, 04:10 PM
    Berbs, one also shouldn't dismiss a proposition simply because it flatters their in-group, especially when kleine proposed a (I'd say reasonable) mechanism for such a correlation.

    And no, of course high IQ doesn't "cause" apostasy, but there *is* a statistical correlation, according to sociological research. That much is true. What you infer from it is open to debate. Whether it means religion is "wrong", "for dumb people", that we're "better" than Muslims, etc., is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether such a correlation exists, and apparently yes, it does.

    I would suspend judgment about this particular issue until some research has been done to look into it. kleine's mechanism, linking physical attractiveness to inclusion within exclusive groups that practice non-Islamic acts, to apostasy, seems reasonable enough. I'll add that I've seen research showing a correlation between IQ and physical attractiveness (because intelligence raises tendency to be successful and thus to mate with attractive people, and thus your offspring will probably have both traits), and this may also mean there's a correlation between apostasy and physical attractiveness. If smart people are on average more beautiful, and less religious people are, on average, smarter, then, ceteris paribus, less religious people are likely to be more beautiful than average. Simplistic, I know, but it's one possibility.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #16 - July 13, 2011, 04:10 PM
    Quote from: -Tmp- on July 13, 2011, 04:08 PM
    IMO,  religious people are way more attractive than Apostates. Especially the ones that don't even pray/follow their religion but just believe it just in case. Cheesy


    Hot Mormons, anyone Tongue
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #17 - July 13, 2011, 04:11 PM
    Quote from: kleine Bruder on July 13, 2011, 02:59 PM
    So I didn't know where to put this, and this seemed like the most relevant section.

    Perusing through the "post a pic" thread, I realize that you guys and gals do rate highly on the attractiveness scale. Of course, the thread is a small sample of the entire population of CEMB, which in turn is a smaller sample of the entire apostate community. Then there's a bias for self-selection, and a whole plethora of identification issues.

    Needless to say, my 'intuition' from that thread gives me reasons to hypothesis some connection between physical attractiveness and apostasy. Allow me to explain.


    Says the statistician? -_- I am disappoint.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #18 - July 13, 2011, 04:17 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on July 13, 2011, 04:10 PM
    Berbs, one also shouldn't dismiss a proposition simply because it flatters their in-group, especially when kleine proposed a (I'd say reasonable) mechanism for such a correlation.

    And no, of course high IQ doesn't "cause" apostasy, but there *is* a statistical correlation, according to sociological research. That much is true. What you infer from it is open to debate. Whether it means religion is "wrong", "for dumb people", that we're "better" than Muslims, etc., is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether such a correlation exists, and apparently yes, it does.



    err no it doesn't.  Show me how trawling through one forum thread in which not everyone puts their picture can actually give you any correlation aside from one you WISH you could make? 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #19 - July 13, 2011, 04:19 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on July 13, 2011, 04:17 PM
    err no it doesn't.  Show me how trawling through one forum thread in which not everyone puts their picture can actually give you any correlation aside from one you WISH you could make? 


    I was referring to IQ and religiosity. As I said, I'd suspend judgment on the issue of whether there's a correlation between physical attractiveness and religiosity or not.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #20 - July 13, 2011, 04:26 PM
    It's a tiny sample size. You aren't seeing everyone. People who are more attractive would, I think,  be more likely to post more photos, and more frequently. And personally, I'm always just surprised everyone is so normal looking, considering the unattractive teen recluse frequenting forums stereotype. Though that's probably just me... but yeah, I don't really see any reason to think apostates are on average more attractive, though having me on board obviously helps.   cool2
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #21 - July 13, 2011, 04:32 PM
    ^yeah me too. when i joined it was a good day for the forum
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #22 - July 13, 2011, 04:33 PM
    You just keep posting Eduardo's pics. I'm onto you. -_-
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #23 - July 13, 2011, 04:34 PM
    People generally look more attractive when alone on a screen amongst text compared to being amongst other people outside.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #24 - July 13, 2011, 04:36 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on July 13, 2011, 04:33 PM
    You just keep posting Eduardo's pics. I'm onto you. -_-


    He sometimes alternates to using Ralph Macho ones  yes
    Hi
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #25 - July 13, 2011, 04:38 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on July 13, 2011, 04:26 PM
    It's a tiny sample size. You aren't seeing everyone. People who are more attractive would, I think,  be more likely to post more photos, and more frequently. And personally, I'm always just surprised everyone is so normal looking, considering the unattractive teen recluse frequenting forums stereotype. Though that's probably just me... but yeah, I don't really see any reason to think apostates are on average more attractive, though having me on board obviously helps.   cool2


    Perhaps if you reread my first post, you'll see that I do point out the issue of selection bias and non-representative sample. The thread made me think, but like harakaat mentioned, my mechanism was not the thread itself, rather the acts one is exposed to while they are still under the banner of a religion, based on attractiveness.

    Berbs: You raise an interesting point, although it serves more as an adhominem rather than an actual negation of my premises or argument. If you find a flaw in my argument (which I'm sure there could be), let us all know. Speculating on whether I want 'my-in-crowd' to be 'the best' will get you nowhere, no how. I have respect enough to not question your motives for posting any ideas, the least you could do is reciprocate and try to tackle the idea, not my 'method of coming up with shit'. Thank you.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #26 - July 13, 2011, 04:40 PM
    A good looking extremist is ugly, a bad looking apostate is good looking.

    Opinion of a person rates highly. A good looking apostate, is excessively good looking beyond normal.

    Celebrities are the same, the best looking people in the world are celebrities, despite the fact we see the same faces in the street, we don't look twice, because they're not celebrities.
    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #27 - July 13, 2011, 04:42 PM
    Quote from: musivore on July 13, 2011, 04:36 PM
    He sometimes alternates to using Ralph Macho ones  yes


    when i was in karate kid 4:



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #28 - July 13, 2011, 04:43 PM
    Quote from: kleine Bruder on July 13, 2011, 04:38 PM
    Perhaps if you reread my first post, you'll see that I do point out the issue of selection bias and non-representative sample. The thread made me think, but like harakaat mentioned, my mechanism was not the thread itself, rather the acts one is exposed to while they are still under the banner of a religion, based on attractiveness.


    But you cited increasing sexuality/sexual experiences. I don't really see much reason to jump from there to likelihood of apostasy. And I would think people who spend less time socialising 'irl' would be more likely to find atheistic/anti-religious material on the internet. Certainly the latter would be a more common factor among apostates, I would think.
  • Re: Apostasy and Attractiveness
     Reply #29 - July 13, 2011, 04:46 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on July 13, 2011, 04:43 PM
    But you cited increasing sexuality/sexual experiences. I don't really see much reason to jump from there to likelihood of apostasy.


    Let me show you a possibility then: if you start having sex and enjoy it, then you might think about whether you SHOULD enjoy it, based on your upbringing/religion/what have you. If you find that Islam, your religion, is against an action that you find no harm in and thoroughly enjoy, there is a chance, mind you just a chance, you might start to dig deeper into Islam and see if it indeed is right for you. That's the jump I think people could possibly make.
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