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Theme Changer

 Topic: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway

 (Read 25466 times)
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  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #90 - July 23, 2011, 04:20 PM

    I don't care what we call it, whether we call it "Taqiyya" or whatever, but it's certainly true that many Muslim spokesmen engage in double speak where they say one thing infront of the infidel audience and quite another infront of their fellow Muslims.


    Saying many Muslim spokesmen engage in doublespeak is fair - but quite different from saying Taqiyya is a key element of Islam widely practiced by Muslims.

    Do we have to go through - again - how many of us here ever heard of Taqiyya when we were Muslims?
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #91 - July 23, 2011, 04:24 PM

    Ah you know what - fuck it!

    Same old bloody conversations with the same old people.

    Sick of this shit!
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #92 - July 23, 2011, 04:25 PM

    Nor would I and I didn't. That was your strawman.

    In which case you should've agreed with my "This is not an anti-Muslim attack" comment.  Why did you reply to it sarcastically?

    Meh this is getting all to confusing now, let's just agree to disagree.

    .
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #93 - July 23, 2011, 04:29 PM

    If anything, this is a good opportunity to take the focus off Islam and Muslims, and focus on other forms of terrorism and nutters which exist in this world.  It seems like terrorism is synonymous with "Islam" and "Muslims" nowdays (although to be fair, there is a reason for that).

    Here we have a neo-nazi who is terrorising his own countrymen, government and establishment, and it would be nice if anti-terrorism experts conducted studies to delve into the minds and motives of these warped individuals too (and any ideology which may inspire them).

    .
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #94 - July 23, 2011, 05:06 PM

    Billy, it's quite simple. If someone is being dishonest (spreading the idea that Taqiyya means simply lying to non-Muslims to further Islam and that Muslims practice it widely) or dehumanise Muslims (a good Muslim is not human) - they share the responsibility of the crimes people commit who believe them.

    As someone who criticises Islam, I know I have a responsibility to be fair, accurate and balanced.

    Do you have a problem with the above? Yes or no?


    I guess you didn't read my post, Hassan.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #95 - July 23, 2011, 05:07 PM

    What I'm getting at is that extreme positions are sexier than nuanced ones, in that they provide little shortcuts; any resulting demonologies are usually easy to summarise, and thus have a certain appeal to people prone to essentialising.

    My question, thus reworded, might be: how might one become visible enough to stop the far right from stealing one's clothes as it chooses? It may be a naive hope, but I don't see why they should claim a monopoly on Islamic criticism.


    To be honest, I don't know the answer. The fact is that the atmosphere is febrile at the moment, and alot of people have daggers drawn in all directions.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #96 - July 23, 2011, 05:22 PM

    Shahid, disingenuousness of believers is different than 'taqiyya' as it is formulated by some members of the Right. The former has complex reasons and degrees - on the one hand a full blown liar like Zakir Naik as you described, on the other, someone who is just defensive when criticised, on the other someone who actually believes what they say despite contradictory arguments.

    The problem is that it is too reductive a word, and can conceal more than it illuminates, especially when used as a blanket term.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #97 - July 23, 2011, 06:26 PM

    President Bush, 9/11: "We're gonna hunt you down."
    Prime Minister Stoltenberg 22/7: "We will retaliate with more democracy"
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #98 - July 23, 2011, 06:36 PM

    I've wrestled with this for years. My own feeling that decides the issue for me personally is this:

    What is the cost of silence? Is the cost greater or lesser for speaking out?

    In my view, and I've reached this over a long period of introspection, is that the cost of silence is that Islam and Islamism gets a free pass, which is even more catastrophic, because it will continue to assert itself, and that will feed the far-right paranoia and essentiallising of hyper-nationalist far-right Stormfront types in any case.

    Silence would also mean the death of free conscience, because in the face of a prosletysing religion, a taboo would be observed. And that, I believe, ultimately, would lead to the creation of an even worse climate and situation.

    What serves humanism and individual dignity? Silence or reasoned expression of free conscience?

    Everyone has to decide for themselves. Its not going to be easy. But there you go.


    I don't disagree with you on how the rhetoric of those who accept these claims as the only authentic form of Islam influence an atmospherics in which the far-right can thrive.

    My contention is that their responsibility 'for handing such crackpots all the excuses they need' is a second hand one. The first hand responsibility is from those who propagate these ideas and interpretations of Islam from inside Islam, and Islamic Identity Politics in the primary instance.

    The second hand re-packagers of it simply pick up the baton and run with it. And then transmit that, with distortions, to the far-right.

    Without addressing the 'first-hand' opinion, without even recognising it in the first place, its basically pruning the ugly thorns, not the roots of the plant.

    Here is the thing - alot of those who criticise the second-hand peddlers of Islamic essentialising, are themselves proponents of Islamic essentialising - only they are Muslim. The Islamists, those affiliated with Jamat-e-Islami, Mawdudi disciples, Ikhwanists, this list goes on and on and on. And in an even further complicating twist, some of those on the Left, actually go along with this too.

    This is complex. I know alot of people who won't speak out, because of this. I can see where they are coming from. I understand it. I see the dangers of speaking out.

    I can see why many rush to silence, or deny these interplays, out of defensiveness, and out of fear of the far right-wing malevolence.

    After years of wrestling with this, I don't think there should be silence. I think that, ultimately staying silent will make things much, much worse.

    But it is something that everyone here needs to introspect on, because its a very important and incendiary issue, and you can only speak with moral force and clarity, if you have thought about it.


    Who are you addressing this to? Who has advocated silence in this thread?

    President Bush, 9/11: "We're gonna hunt you down."
    Prime Minister Stoltenberg 22/7: "We will retaliate with more democracy"


    You brain-damaged or something?

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #99 - July 23, 2011, 06:44 PM

    Quote

    Who are you addressing this to?


    You can have it if you like.

    Quote
    Who has advocated silence in this thread?


    Does anyone have to have? I was musing out loud.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #100 - July 23, 2011, 06:48 PM

    Well your "musings" were a direct reply to someone else's posts, it came across to me as if you were implying Hassan was advocating or considering silence.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #101 - July 23, 2011, 06:55 PM


    Yeah thats what happens when you muse.

    The bottom line is this - even the most reasoned criticism of Islam / Islamism CAN be used by the far-right as grist to the 'essentiallising mill' in the same way that some Muslims say it adds to the atmospherics of Islamophobia.

    Essentially they twist things, and I've had experience of this recently in my personal life in a conversation I had.

    Like I said, just thinking out loud, sorry if anyone got irked.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #102 - July 23, 2011, 07:02 PM

    You brain-damaged or something?


    Its a quote being used by Norwegians to show their support to how their leader handled the situation. Those words fell after the bomb in Oslo, in the first press conference held by Prime minister Stoltenberg, when neither he or the Norwegian public knew who did it, or whether there were more bombs, ready to go off.

    The fact that you have to respond to my post with a petty insult, just shows your immaturity. Next time, you should try to take your head out of your ass, before you reply to a post. Thanks.
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #103 - July 23, 2011, 07:05 PM

    @ Billy :I dont think i was irked at all, i have been thinking along the same line of your muse for quite a long time too.

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #104 - July 23, 2011, 07:06 PM

    Its a quote being used by Norwegians to show their support to how their leader handled the situation. Those words fell after the bomb in Oslo, in the first press conference held by Prime minister Stoltenberg, when neither he or the Norwegian public knew who did it, or whether there were more bombs, ready to go off.

    The fact that you have to respond to my post with a petty insult, just shows your immaturity. Next time, you should try to take your head out of your ass, before you reply to a post. Thanks.


    Yep, definitely brain-damaged.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #105 - July 23, 2011, 07:09 PM

    The fact that you have to respond to my post with a petty insult, just shows your immaturity. Next time, you should try to take your head out of your ass, before you reply to a post. Thanks.


    LOL. Wow what a perfect way to tell some one to mature up; by responding immaturely yourself. Cheesy

    Thread sneaker
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #106 - July 23, 2011, 07:10 PM

    My question, thus reworded, might be: how might one become visible enough to stop the far right from stealing one's clothes as it chooses? It may be a naive hope, but I don't see why they should claim a monopoly on Islamic criticism.

    The fact that the far right and the likes of Gert Wilders are able claim a near monopoly on criticism of Islam (a retarded criticism that does far more damage than good btw) is a failure of the mainstream 'left' to address the very real issues for fear of being branded Islamophobic.

    Maryam Namazie @5:56

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7fpI8RCNBI

  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #107 - July 23, 2011, 07:11 PM

    Yep, definitely brain-damaged.


    Wow, you are so witty. And yeah, I and thousands of Norwegians are brain-damaged, for reflecting on the difference in tone of the two leaders. It shows how its better to have a rationally thinking leader, rather than a trigger happy cowboy, just waiting to start wars, and drag others into it. Its not words used to compare the two situations.

    Obviously I did not see the need to clarify on that, as I was sure it would be implied. I didn't know there were minors hanging around on this site.
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #108 - July 23, 2011, 07:13 PM

    LOL. Wow what a perfect way to tell some one to mature up; by responding immaturely yourself. Cheesy

    Thread sneaker


    So you feel the need to comment on my insult, but you have no problems with Q-Man's post? And I did not respond immaturely. My post, unlike someone who feels the need to call himself "the racoon rapist", actually had substance. His was just a petty insult, of 4th grade level.
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #109 - July 23, 2011, 07:15 PM

    I just found it funny that you thought Q's post was immature and then you said something pretty immature yourself.

    take your head out of your ass,

     = Immature.

    Thread sneaker
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #110 - July 23, 2011, 07:17 PM

    My post had substance, his did not. There is a difference between our posts. And unlike him, I also don't feel the need to call myself "Raccoon Rapist" on an internet message board. I don't know about you, but to me a handle like that reeks of immaturity.
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #111 - July 23, 2011, 07:20 PM

    I posted Thread sneaker for a reason. I don't want to be a troll on a serious thread. If you want to discuss this any further, then find another thread please.
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #112 - July 23, 2011, 07:21 PM

    The fact that the far right and the likes of Gert Wilders are able claim a near monopoly on the criticism of Islam (a retarded criticism that does far more damage than good btw) is a failure of the mainstream 'left' to address the very real issues.


    Kenan, don't use the word retarded. We have several forum members who are retarded and might take offense at that statement.

    Wow, you are so witty. And yeah, I and thousands of Norwegians are brain-damaged, for reflecting on the difference in tone of the two leaders. It shows how its better to have a rationally thinking leader, rather than a trigger happy cowboy, just waiting to start wars, and drag others into it. Its not words used to compare the two situations.

    Obviously I did not see the need to clarify on that, as I was sure it would be implied. I didn't know there were minors hanging around on this site.


    I apologize. I misinterpreted your statement.

    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #113 - July 23, 2011, 07:33 PM

     mysmilie_977
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #114 - July 23, 2011, 07:54 PM

    Apparently Breivik wrote some sort of a biography/diary called 2083.

    The following excerpts were found on a forum, and have, as far as I know, not been confirmed by any media outlet.

    Saturday May 21 - Day 20: Went to the capital to pick up a few parcels; 5 large packages of micro balloons and 50 more liters of distilled water. I also purchased a 50kg weight dumbbell set for fertilizer grinding, costing 700 euro, as It would most likely be the best way to crush the fertilizer prills using this method.

    On my way home to the farm I noticed what I believed to be a civilian police vehicle south of the southern town (30km from the farm). At this point in time I remembered I had forgotten to turn on the lights on the car since I tested out my blue LED lights the day before. Hmm, they should have stopped me for this violation. Very weird. As I came closer to the farm I noticed what I believed to be another civilian police car. Damn, I got a really bad feeling about this and my instincts told me I was about to be apprehended. Too many red flags were lit. I stopped 500 meters before the farm entrance and had a smoke, preparing mentally for a potential welcoming party at the farm. What should I do if I was about to be SWAT raped by a 6 or 12 man team? I didn't have any weapons available as they were all inside the main house. Should I make a run for it, if so, where would I go? Would I have time to fetch my evacuation kit, and should I try to get it and shoot my way out?

    After the break I approached the farm, and turned on the fog lights on the car so that I could have an advantage should they approach me from the front. I stopped 50 meters north of the main house and I was shocked at the sight that awaited me...! The barn door was wide open!!! Someone was here! They were probably circling me right now or waiting for me inside the main house! I waited 20 minutes with the fog light aimed straight at the direction I expected them to come from. Perhaps they are not here, maybe they just installed monitoring equipment like they often do? I entered the house, picked up the glock and searched the house and the barn. Nothing. I began searching for monitoring equipment, nothing...

    Paranoia can be a good thing, or it can be a curse. The barn door had probably been opened by the wind. I decided then and there that I would not allow paranoia to get the best of me again. If they were to come for me one day, there was really nothing I could do about it, so it would not be constructive to worry about it.

    Thursday June 2 - Day 32: I saw a car driving through the property while I was surfing the net. As I went to greet him I noticed he was taking pictures of the farm. He, around 50-60, said he was a tourist wanting to take landscape pictures. His actions and body language indicated however that he was lying. My instinct told me that he was a police officer. I offered him coffee and suggested he should go down to the river bank as it was the optimal place for taking photos. I noticed that he continued to take pictures of the farm. When he approached the house I chatted with him again. From what I understood, reading his body language and between the lines, he worked for the police and he was following up on the "marijuana farm" case. He disclosed that his daughter was a drug-sniffer-dog trainer. He was probably taking pictures in relation to this case. I told him that some people had set up a marijuana farm here a few years back. He seemed surprise, although he probably knew that already. This encounter was a concern for me for a few days, but I decided to just forget it as it wasn't anything to do about it if he was to return. I'm just glad I gave him a good impression.

    Q: But doesn’t it worry you that 95% of all Europeans will openly detest you and call you a murderer and a terrorist?

    A: It’s human nature to be selfish, to seek admiration, love and affection. This is why very few people will have the self insight, the ideological and moral confidence and strength to act selflessly on behalf of their own countrymen on their own initiative without a solid hierarchical organisation or country supporting and encouraging them. We have taken these thankless tasks upon ourselves because we possess these traits; the self insight, the ideological and moral confidence and strenght and we are willing to sacrifice our lives for our brothers and sisters, even though they will openly detest us. It can be illustrated like a parent spanking their ignorant child. The child will hate their parents there and then but in time they will understand that their only intention is to protect them. In phase 2 and 3, many of these brothers and sisters will hold our banner and chant our hymns because they finally understand.
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #115 - July 23, 2011, 08:03 PM

    Sorry about the long post. Anyway, here are more excerpts I found

    He was planning to do this for years

    I’ve spent a total of 9 years of my life working on this project. The first five years were spent studying and creating a financial base, and the last three years was spent working full time with research, compilation and writing. Creating this compendium has personally cost me a total of 317 000 Euros (130 000 Euros spent from my own pocket and 187 500 Euros for loss of income during three years). All that, however, is barely noticeable compared to the sacrifices made in relation to the distribution of this book, the actual marketing operation

    Writes about his targets


    3. The third mistake is to select an overwhelmingly protected individual as a target for assassination. 12 failed attempts on an extremely well protected individual could have alternatively been 12 successful attacks on lesser targets executing more than 50 primary targets. Targets should be influential media personalities – multiculturalist politicians, journalists/editors, cultural Marxist professors, Marxist writers/artists, NGO leaders, globalist investors. Obviously, focus on individuals who does not have armed body guards.



    And he might have been on steroids while shooting the kids at that island

    Noticing that the testo withdrawal is contributing to increased aggressiveness. As I'm now continuing with 50mg it will most likely pass. I wish it would be possible to somehow manipulate this effect to my advantage later on when it is needed. Because the state seems to very efficiently suppress fear. I wonder if it is possible to acquire specialized "aggressiveness" pills on the market. It would probably be extremely useful in select military operations, especially when combined with steroids and ECA stack...! It would turn you into a superhuman one-man-army for 2 hours!
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #116 - July 23, 2011, 08:38 PM

    The manifest is real, and very disturbing.

    It has just been verified by Norwegian media.

    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #117 - July 23, 2011, 08:52 PM

    He most likely operated alone, but this is reported to be from the book:

    3.12 Re-founding of Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici – PCCTS, the Knights Templar

    The European Military Order and Criminal Tribunal (the PCCTS - Knights Templar) was created by and for the free indigenous peoples of Europe. One of the primary purposes of the tribunal and order is to attempt/contribute to seize political and military control of Western European multiculturalist regimes and to try, judge and punish Western European cultural Marxist/multiculturalist perpetrators (category A, B and C traitors) for crimes committed against the indigenous peoples of Europe from 1955 until this day.

    Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici – PCCTS (the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon), the Knights Templar was re-founded in London in 2002 by representatives from eight European countries, for the purpose of serving the interests of the free indigenous peoples of Europe and to fight against the ongoing European Jihad (referred to as the “third Jihad”). The Knights Templar was re-founded as a pan-European nationalist military order and a military/criminal tribunal with two primary objectives. The order is to serve as an armed Indigenous Rights Organisation and as a Crusader Movement (anti-Jihad movement).

    The founding session (two meetings consisting of 4 founding members and host as a security precaution) was held in London, United Kingdom – Apr, 2002.


    Founding (re-founding) members:

    Anonymous 1 - Nationality: English Protestant (Host)
    Anonymous 2 - Nationality: English Christian atheist
    Anonymous 3 - Nationality: French Catholic
    Anonymous 4 - Nationality: German Christian atheist
    Anonymous 5 - Nationality: Dutch Christian agnostic
    Anonymous 6 - Nationality: Greek Orthodox
    Anonymous 7 - Nationality: Russian Christian atheist
    Anonymous 8 - Nationality: Norwegian Protestant (member and proxy for 9)
    Anonymous 9 - Nationality: Serbian Orthodox (by proxy, location: Monrovia, Liberia)


    Unable to attend:

    Anonymous 10 – Nationality: Swedish
    Anonymous 11 – Nationality: Belgian
    Anonymous 12 – Nationality: European-American


    (Names will be kept classified indefinitely to avoid cultural Marxist/ multiculturalist persecution but each individual may reveal his own name during the three phases at his own convenience).

    The jurisdiction of the order and tribunal includes (but is not limited to) all Western European countries and the Balkans.

    The European Military Order and Criminal Tribunal (the PCCTS - Knights Templar) have found all European category A, B and C traitors guilty of a series of crimes against Europeans (charges 1-8). All European category A and B traitors have been sentenced to death. Punishment is pending awaiting effectuation by Justiciar Knights.


    If this is true, there may be more trouble to come.

    Bukhari 62:142 - Narrated Anas bin Malik:
       The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.
  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #118 - July 23, 2011, 09:11 PM



    The shithouse was an admirer of the EDL and communicated with some members online:

    Quote

    Breivik had talked admiringly online about conversations he had had with unnamed English Defence League members and the organisation Stop the Islamification of Europe (SIOE) over the success of provocative street actions leading to violence.

    "I have on some occasions had discussions with SIOE and EDL and recommended them to use certain strategies," he wrote two years ago. "The tactics of the EDL are now to 'lure' an overreaction from the Jihad Youth/Extreme-Marxists, something they have succeeded in doing several times already."



    Lets face it, he knew exactly what they were and are all about.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks-utoya-gunman

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway
     Reply #119 - July 23, 2011, 09:24 PM

    Removed.
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