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Theme Changer

 Topic: Why no Christians?

 (Read 24353 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Why no Christians?
     OP - August 02, 2011, 05:47 PM
    Hey, everyone! I'm back!

    So yeah, I was wondering why there weren't any active Christians on this forum. From my own experience, and from looking at the Wikipedia lists of former Muslims, I have the (very tentative) impression that there are far more Christian ex-Muslims than irreligionist (generic theistic, atheistic, agnostic, deistic, pantheistic...) ex-Muslims, but we don't have any active ones on this forum. I was going through a few old posts, and it seemed like they were received with some hostility/criticalness. One member opined that this was a forum "discussing ALL religion, not just Islam".

    So yes, I'm going to withhold judgment for a while and ask you all for your opinions on what the unofficial policy of CEMBers should be with regard to Christian newcomers. Should we unite in our ex-Muslimness, or should we challenge all religious sentiments? Should CEMB only be about Islam (and leaving it), or religion as a whole? How should Christian ex-Muslims be treated on this forum? Also, I need a bit of a history lesson: Have any notable/remarkable ex-Muslim Christians ever posted here?

    (Note: This isn't necessarily just about Christians, but any other religious ex-Muslims)
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #1 - August 02, 2011, 05:51 PM
    When were you gone? Huh?

    Tongue

    Welcome back sexy! parrot

    Umm as far I know we have a few ex christians here (on the top of my head, there's Chris and Sakura) I think this forum manages situations well individually and certain groups of people do not get discriminated against.

    As far as active christians go, I guess I always considered Christianity as a more relaxed religion than Islam and therefore you don't see many christians on forums like these, debating about religion etc.

    Of course this forum is for everyone, and for the time that I've been on here I have not once witnessed anyone being ostracised for their personal beliefs or background.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #2 - August 02, 2011, 05:55 PM
    Quote from: Zaiba on August 02, 2011, 05:51 PM
    When were you gone? Huh?

    Tongue

    Welcome back sexy! parrot

    Umm as far I know we have a few ex christians here (on the top of my head, there's Chris and Sakura) I think this forum manages situations well individually and certain groups of people do not get discriminated against.




    I was gone for like, a couple of weeks or so... while some shit happened, that I don't really want to talk about...

    Anyway, thanks!

    And yeah, I know there are ex-Christians here. But oddly, almost no Christian ex-Muslims Tongue
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #3 - August 02, 2011, 06:05 PM
    I don't know if there are any active ones... certainly there have been a few that joined in the past and while everyone is welcome here, some of them seemed to want us all to jump onto Jesus' wagon, and we all know how that would have gone down lol
    Maybe they tend to hang around more on Christian forums... who knows...
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #4 - August 02, 2011, 06:10 PM
    We had Armunduck for a while until he got banned for trolling. He was quiet a normal guy for a long time.
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #5 - August 02, 2011, 06:13 PM
    Yeah muddy that was spectacularly funny... he was like .... normal and then one day just went  wacko

    I love CEMB drama like that  dance
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #6 - August 02, 2011, 06:29 PM
    Really? What happened with him? When did he start trolling? (Could I perhaps ask for a link? Tongue)
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #7 - August 02, 2011, 06:52 PM
    He was genuinely gay and proud of it. He is part of some Pyam Ministery. But somehow he started making up anti-islam pro christian non-sense that had no reality whatsoever.. e.g satan fucked moh's mother, and would give all kinds of explainations to make it look factual. And later he refused that he was ever gay..
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
    Islam's Last Stand (page)
    Islam's Last Stand (group)
    and many others...
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #8 - August 02, 2011, 06:55 PM
    Armanduck was normal at one point? I must have missed that.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #9 - August 02, 2011, 07:06 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on August 02, 2011, 06:55 PM
    Armanduck was normal at one point? I must have missed that.


    Well he seemed reasonably polite and was happy to have found a place for ex-muslims... then it all went downhill lol
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #10 - August 03, 2011, 09:29 AM
    Quote from: Zaiba on August 02, 2011, 05:51 PM
    As far as active christians go, I guess I always considered Christianity as a more relaxed religion than Islam and therefore you don't see many christians on forums like these, debating about religion etc.

    Of course this forum is for everyone, and for the time that I've been on here I have not once witnessed anyone being ostracised for their personal beliefs or background.


    Think I'd have to disagree there Zaiba, Christianity can be and is as controlling and dogmatic as Islam, it may not be as open about as Islam. I believe it comes down to the individual on whether they follow their religion as letter of the law.

    But I certainly agree with that this forum is for everyone, perhaps aimed more for those wanting to leave or have left islam, as they seem to be more persecuted within islam than those leaving christianity.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #11 - August 03, 2011, 09:55 AM
    The problem is that if you're going to criticise one religion for various sorts of silliness, it's hard to stop there when you see another religion being equally silly in its own ways (and often in the same ways).

    This means that when Christians do rock up here, they get hit with a lot of the same arguments that apply to Islam. They generally deal with it rather well but it doesn't exactly make them feel comfortable, so they tend to leave after a while.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #12 - August 03, 2011, 11:12 AM
    Christianity relaxed? Islam is possibly better than Christianity when it was in its infancy, Zaibs.

    Buddhism is possibly the most relaxed religion, I'm not that sure about Hinduism though. None of them comes without the burden of dogma, though.


    Youtube
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #13 - August 03, 2011, 11:22 AM
    If Christianity is relaxed, its because its been beaten into a relaxed state, by centuries, and decades of secular pressure and post enlightenment society, the priveliging of the individual over the collective, and all the scrutiny and de-fanging that has ordered.

    Literalism still prevails overall in Islam. Thats why it is possible to challenge Christianity in ways that are not really replicated in the ummah. So its the fact that we are in a post-literalist Christian world that our society is open and secular and relaxed. Islam is in a state of panic because it has seen what has happened to Christianity.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #14 - August 03, 2011, 03:04 PM
    Armunduck still owes me $20,000.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #15 - August 03, 2011, 03:18 PM
    Quote from: billy on August 03, 2011, 11:22 AM
    If Christianity is relaxed, its because its been beaten into a relaxed state, by centuries, and decades of secular pressure and post enlightenment society, the priveliging of the individual over the collective, and all the scrutiny and de-fanging that has ordered.

    Literalism still prevails overall in Islam. Thats why it is possible to challenge Christianity in ways that are not really replicated in the ummah. So its the fact that we are in a post-literalist Christian world that our society is open and secular and relaxed. Islam is in a state of panic because it has seen what has happened to Christianity.




    Perfect sum up Afro
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #16 - August 03, 2011, 04:20 PM
    http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/1635031/05bcd7d9/gristengekkies_pownen.html
    This is what modern Christians can take... Cheesy
    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #17 - August 03, 2011, 05:42 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on August 03, 2011, 09:55 AM
    The problem is that if you're going to criticise one religion for various sorts of silliness, it's hard to stop there when you see another religion being equally silly in its own ways (and often in the same ways).


    Yes, that's what I wanted to discuss! Do you think we should treat Christians more gently in the spirit of ex-Islamic brotherhood, or should we go all out on them?
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #18 - August 03, 2011, 06:03 PM
    Nah, let's treat everyone equally.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #19 - August 03, 2011, 06:09 PM
    Doesn't that mean treating ex-Muslims and Muslims equally? Tongue I'm not saying we shouldn't do that, but it does kinda seem paradoxical, this being CEMB and all. A center for support and help for those who have left Islam.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #20 - August 03, 2011, 06:34 PM
    Why not?

    Muslims who come here are not attacked for their person, they are attacked for their ideas. There is no contradiction in treating people equally and scrutinising their ideas, as and when they come.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #21 - August 03, 2011, 06:46 PM
    But what should take precedence, the idea of CEMB as a safe shelter for all ex-Muslims, no matter what they believe now, or the urge to challenge their beliefs which may (and apparently has) chased them away?
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #22 - August 03, 2011, 06:49 PM
    They are more than welcome here but when they, inevitably, come to criticise Islam, people are going to call them up on their own beliefs.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #23 - August 03, 2011, 06:54 PM
    Isn't Bahira enough? he/she copy and paste a few chapter of the bible to prove the coming of the god's son.
    Teach us to care and not to care / Teach us to sit still.
    What do we live for; if it is not to make life less difficult to each other
    You are the music while the music lasts.
    T.S.Eliot
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #24 - August 03, 2011, 06:58 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on August 03, 2011, 06:46 PM
    But what should take precedence, the idea of CEMB as a safe shelter for all ex-Muslims, no matter what they believe now, or the urge to challenge their beliefs which may (and apparently has) chased them away?

    Ex-Muslim says nothing about what you are. It only tells us what you're not. That is the only thing we have in common. There is no creed protected from scrutiny here, nor should their be.

    What if it was an Ex-Muslim, now a White Supremacist? Should we also treat them more gently in the spirit of "ex-Islamic brotherhood"?
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #25 - August 03, 2011, 07:06 PM
    Also, 50% of the world population don't have the necessary hardware to be a part of any kind of 'brotherhood', bro.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #26 - August 03, 2011, 07:06 PM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on August 03, 2011, 06:49 PM
    They are more than welcome here but when they, inevitably, come to criticise Islam, people are going to call them up on their own beliefs.


    ^That. IMHO Christians are almost the same as Islam especially Roman Catholics,though they are more relaxed just as how Billy sums it up with his statements.personally most of my christians friends IRL are not practicing and dont even care to go to church on sundays, i would say there are cultural christians. Not to digress further, its unlikely to see a christian in this forum unless one is here to evangelize.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #27 - August 03, 2011, 07:10 PM
    To OP's question, you might as well ask why no juice?











    No really, I'm feeling extremely thirsty please give me any and all juice you have.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #28 - August 03, 2011, 08:19 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on August 03, 2011, 06:58 PM
    What if it was an Ex-Muslim, now a White Supremacist? Should we also treat them more gently in the spirit of "ex-Islamic brotherhood"?


    I guess that's a good point.

    But white supremacism isn't a religion. If we had, say, an anti-Semite here, even an atheist, I'm sure he wouldn't be treated with kiddy gloves. But Christianity is directly related to rejecting Islam. Consider these two scenarios, caricaturized as they might be, and tell me what you picture CEMB, in its best state, as:

    A: Hey everyone! I'm an ex-Muslim now. I have been touched by the love of Jesus Christ, and I am now a Christian!

    CEMBer: Hey, A! Welcome to CEMB! Have a wonderful time here! *lovey dovey Alcoholics Anonymous stuff*

    Second scenario:

    A: Blah blah Jesus!
    CEMBer: But isn't that just switching one barbaric cult with another? Why are you a Christian? [Insert gay Jesus joke].

    Consider that Christianity's appeal to the Christian ex-Muslims I have encountered is highly, highly emotional. The themes of love and salvation are appealing. It is not necessarily the cold, rational assessment of facts that led most of us (or at least that is what some claim) to abandoning theism. Therefore, they are probably not very well equipped to defend their faith on intellectual grounds. Is it fair to crush them to the ground or chase them away when their faith isn't necessarily as harmful (or offensive) as racism?

    I hate sounding so patronizing!

    Anyway, what I really want is an active, intelligent Christian ex-Muslim CEMBer who can make Christian newcomers feel welcomed and not alone on "enemy territory". It would be silly for infighting to prevent us from presenting a common front against Islamic attitudes towards apostasy.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Why no Christians?
     Reply #29 - August 03, 2011, 08:36 PM
    Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
    ~ 1 Timothy 2:11-12

    Fuck Christianity.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
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