Hey Unifier, I thought I'd share part of a skype conversation I had two weeks ago after sharing a particular link, one worth checking out by the way. I'm hoping the conversation will be a good jumping off point for understanding the problem with Tommy.
Me: Shame the author went on to become a Greet Wilders type.
http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2012/03/sharia-law-and-middle-class-feminism#.UUSv2lRd67J.twitterOther person: What in your view is “wrong” with Geert Wilders and Anne Marie Waters?
Are they “far-right” and if so, what do they advocate that you disagree with?
Me: There's no nuance. They lump all muslims into a catagory the same way islamists do "the kaffirs". Islam is a threat to the west no matter what and are absolutly no ally to the very people they should be allied with. Muslims like the agnostic muslim group, muslims like Quilliam, muslims like Maajid, they don't factor into their world view, and give no support whatsoever to those muslims who embrace western values, support democracy and secularism while still demanding the right to practise their religion
Other person: Ah ok and you have a point there if that is in fact what they say.
I wonder if anyone has asked them about “Muslims like the agnostic muslim group, muslims like Quilliam, muslims like Maajid” and if they have responded?
Me: Like I said, they aren't in their world view. Any muslim who stands up to islamists, insists on freedom of religion. the right to live your life as you see fit so long as you're not harming anyone and inside the law, is someone worth supporting. The fact they want those same rights for themselves i.e. mosques isn't a threat to western culture, it's demanding those same rights. Which means they want the same rights for everyone, not everyone except them
Other person: That is an interesting point worth discussing.
Me: I'm an atheist in a historically christian country. I demand my right to be heard in my own home. I can't then turn around and deny other people that same right. If I wanted to live in Saudi I'd move there
That's pretty much what the issue is. I don't really think Tommy is a racist in the classical sense, that he has a problem with someone purely because of their ethnic makeup. While we have words for things like sexist, racist etc we don't have an equivalent word for discrimination based on someone's faith. Let's say for example we did have a word for it, let's call it religisism. Tommy is a religisist. If I see someone walking down the street wearing a hijab, I make the assumption that she's a muslim, I know nothing about this person and I make no assumptions outside of having enough knowledge of islam to figure she probably believes in monotheism, probably believes Mo was the seal of the prophets, the five pillars, doesn't believe Jesus is the son of god. Standard stuff. But I make no assumption whatsoever as to her mentality. I don't know if she's a good person or a bad person, a supporter of secular democracy or sharia. Tommy automatically sees her as a threat, or at least possible threat.
Tommy has the exact same view of islam as Anjem Choudary. He genuinely sees islam and the growing muslim population as a threat. He's probably frustrated that despite the continued terrorist atrocities people don't "wake up" and see he was right all along.
Now there are some things Tommy has said that I agree with. I once saw him comment on the fact that when the islamic state established itself almost overnight thousands of western muslims flocked there. I agreed with him when he said this didn't just happen, there's a poison that has prepped them for this. I agree with him when he says that for a long time the government has turned a blind eye to problems under their noses and are now in many ways reaping the rewards.
There are a number of things he says I can happily nod along to, but this is more in the way of a stopped clock being right twice a day.
Tommy obviously sees himself as the hero of this story but he's part of the problem. When you come on a site full of ex-muslims, people who have left the religion, some members who have actually been persecuted and harmed for it, and they're still saying "Fuck Tommy Robinson", that should tell you more than I could if I spend the whole night explaining.
Topic: Grooming of young white girls