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Theme Changer

 Topic: You are not real atheists

 (Read 15682 times)
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  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #30 - August 10, 2011, 10:50 AM

    Saying what?

    Saying one is in an intimate relationship with the grand architect of the universe and he's saying that gays should die? Or young lovers should be flogged 100 times? Or that women are a tilth and rape isnt possible between husband and wife?

    Yes, indeed: prove it.



    Well these people are no different from the new atheists. I am thinking of the religious people like Kierkegaard, Milton etc... Your so imbibed by science and its solid wall view that you fail to realize that the wall is in your imagination, the idea of a christ figure, fallen angle, Adam and eve, god are larger then the book they are written in. This is why you have theology. BTW I do not consider Islam a religion I am talking about Christianity  

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #31 - August 10, 2011, 10:52 AM

    ................................................................................................

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #32 - August 10, 2011, 01:31 PM

    Most theists are laymen when it comes to philosophy and theology.
    Most atheists are laymen when it comes to philosophy and theology.
    Most people are laymen at most fields.

    That theist is far more versed in philosophy, so naturally he ran circles around his hapless opponent. Your rant is all over the place, without a central thesis to respond to.

    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #33 - August 10, 2011, 01:55 PM

    Quote
    BTW I do not consider Islam a religion I am talking about Christianity 


    What do you consider Islam to be then?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #34 - August 10, 2011, 02:48 PM

    Most theists are laymen when it comes to philosophy and theology.
    Most atheists are laymen when it comes to philosophy and theology.
    Most people are laymen at most fields.

    That theist is far more versed in philosophy, so naturally he ran circles around his hapless opponent. Your rant is all over the place, without a central thesis to respond to.

    This.

    I disagree with the broad generalization. Most ex-Muslims don't run from Islam because they've found some cure-all to all of their issues in science, it either doesn't make sense rationally or it doesn't line up with their views ethically. There isn't some manner of becoming one that's set in stone, just a disbelief in the existence of deities. Why do ex-Muslims need a particular reason to become an atheist, anyway?

    "I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want."
    Muhammad Ali
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #35 - August 10, 2011, 03:09 PM

    I made it very clear that I was talking about the ex-Muslims that I have met and 'new atheism'

    I don't even think you know what you're talking about at this point. You're just making it up as you go along.

    Well these people are no different from the new atheists.

    Are you actually insane?

    Your so imbibed by science and its solid wall view that you fail to realize that the wall is in your imagination,

    Who the fuck are you talking about?

    the idea of a christ figure, fallen angle, Adam and eve, god are larger then the book they are written in. This is why you have theology. BTW I do not consider Islam a religion I am talking about Christianity  

    Durrrr... you're trolling, right?

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #36 - August 10, 2011, 03:17 PM

    What do you consider Islam to be then?


    +1 Huh?
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #37 - August 10, 2011, 04:29 PM

    Science is a self correcting mechnism. Its has worked again and again. I belive its much better then philophy (i used to thing the other way aruond) beacuse sceince is acctuly based on evidence rather then blind assrestions. Also sometimes things aren't logical. Philoscphy (well most of it) try to base its ground in logic but say when you go into the world of quantam mechcanics or specail realativity logic fails.

    "Well these people are no different from the new atheists. "

    Wrong mate. like Ishina said if people want to base a soctiy based on some fucked up prcipile which are "divne" Then they better have some good evidence to back it up. "extraordinary claims requier extraordinary evidence" Simple as that Smiley.

    OH one more thing
    Quote
    hey swallow entire spoonfuls of data given to them on a platter by men in white coats---how then are these people rational

    I am not as egotitical to admit that i don't know enough about alot of stuff and i will glady take an experts opinion. If physist are arguing about what was there before the universe started to expand then who am i to question them? I won't probably won't even understand some of the complex mathamatics involved. I will be skeptical but i will surely take an experts opinion over mine any day because they obivesly know more then me on the subject.




    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #38 - August 10, 2011, 06:33 PM

    popcorn
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #39 - August 10, 2011, 07:35 PM

    What do you consider Islam to be then?


    Apolitical system that went out of hand

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #40 - August 10, 2011, 07:43 PM

    Most theists are laymen when it comes to philosophy and theology.
    Most atheists are laymen when it comes to philosophy and theology.
    Most people are laymen at most fields.

    That theist is far more versed in philosophy, so naturally he ran circles around his hapless opponent. Your rant is all over the place, without a central thesis to respond to.




    Stuff I am not talking about is not philosophy or theology its just me having a good laugh watching these atheists stumble around losing there footing.

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #41 - August 10, 2011, 07:45 PM

    ...............................................................................................

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #42 - August 10, 2011, 07:51 PM

    Ishina i am not going to bother....
    but diverting from the topic - why do you feel the need to wear your sexuality on your sleeves (avatar)? Do you require some sort of reassurance or reinforcement for your homosexual behaviour or is it just a flag to protest around (no offence i am just interested)

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #43 - August 10, 2011, 08:00 PM

    @Lucem Ferre
    Do you believe in god?

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #44 - August 10, 2011, 08:01 PM

    D. None of the above.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #45 - August 10, 2011, 08:33 PM

    Yeah, you can't be hungry for tangible knowledge in this world without some soft twat accusing you of "blindly swallowing science"

    You can't be awestruck and energised by the universe, or intrigued and excited by the discoveries in physics, or have an amateur interest in stargazing, or be in love with the natural world and desperate to uncover it's secrets, without some pedestrian dime-a-dozen 'intellectual' who Googled a bit of philosophy telling you you're irrational.

    We should actually make science a proper religion just to give them something real to shit themselves about.


    You're better than this ishina. Why do you resort to ad hominen insults? Philosophers may be dime-a-dozen but what is under discussion here is not the worth of the speaker but of what is being spoken about. For instance, the post below:

    Huh?
    ummm I was talking about the people who dismiss anything that is not empirically verifiable and confuse empiricism with rationalism as if they where not two completely different schools of thought. I am just saying that logical positivism sucks , you cant go around calling everyone who lives there life according to some fantasy, liars.

    No. I am just questioning presuppositions of knowledge, the process of acquisition of knowledge and how e can label something as purely 'objective' for example take global warming. Some of it may be true it but has evolved into a narrative corrupted by political power games.  science itself is not flawless. We can improve on our current model of science also once technology such as computers is involved, science faces a paradigm shift where it is no longer from the human point of view, its no longer aligned to us humans. This can be viewed as a positive thing but it can also be viewed as science taking a wrong turn


    I agree completely with this post. Science is a human pursuit with human faults. Empiricism is a poor epistemological position. These are all uncontroversial positions.
    Verificationism is very easy to refute - just ask somebody that wants verification for every single thing if the principle of verificationism itself can be verified and you will see an incurable fault appear in the entire process.



    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #46 - August 10, 2011, 08:41 PM

    This whole thread is an ad hominem attack and a massive sweeping mischaracterisation of people on this forum, or rather, ex Muslims in general. And you ask me "why the ad hominem"?

    Meh.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #47 - August 10, 2011, 08:48 PM

    This whole thread is an ad hominem attack and a massive sweeping mischaracterisation of people on this forum, or rather, ex Muslims in general.


    +1

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #48 - August 10, 2011, 09:05 PM

    Well these people are no different from the new atheists. I am thinking of the religious people like Kierkegaard, Milton etc... Your so imbibed by science and its solid wall view that you fail to realize that the wall is in your imagination, the idea of a christ figure, fallen angle, Adam and eve, god are larger then the book they are written in. This is why you have theology. BTW I do not consider Islam a religion I am talking about Christianity

    In your opinion what is the fundamental message of Christianity? Why do you think that Islam is not a religion? It sure does look like one to me.
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #49 - August 10, 2011, 09:40 PM

    +1


    Brother i am a ex-muslim
    @Lucem Ferre
    Do you believe in god?


    I don't believe in anything but like to vex those who do dance

    Ishina chill out Cat fight

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #50 - August 10, 2011, 09:49 PM

    In your opinion what is the fundamental message of Christianity? Why do you think that Islam is not a religion? It sure does look like one to me.


    The point that you are missing is there is no 'fundamental' message . It does not have a message and has never claimed to have a message.

    If by religion you mean something that is followed by the masses and eventually reduced to dogma then I guess Islam is a religion but in comparison to other religions it is neither original, creative or well written and has nothing to offer whereas the bible has so much to say of the human condition. It retains meaning within its words just as poetry or a great piece of writing does.

    One other point, blasphemy is a rarity in Christianity. The religion encourages each individual to package and present there faith uniquely. I have read works by devout Christians and stand amazed at Christianity s ability to inspire such great work. Just look at Dostoevsky and Tolstoy- Christianity is omnipresent in there novels. Something that inspires such genius must have a little genius in it self - no? 

    "A belief in hell and the knowledge that every ambition is doomed to frustration at the hands of a skeleton have never prevented the majority of human beings from behaving as though death were no more than an unfounded rumour."
    Aldous Huxley
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #51 - August 10, 2011, 10:54 PM

    the bible has so much to say of the human condition. It retains meaning within its words just as poetry or a great piece of writing does.


    Which bible have you been reading?! Grin


    One other point, blasphemy is a rarity in Christianity. The religion encourages each individual to package and present there faith uniquely. I have read works by devout Christians and stand amazed at Christianity s ability to inspire such great work. Just look at Dostoevsky and Tolstoy- Christianity is omnipresent in there novels. Something that inspires such genius must have a little genius in it self - no? 


    This is a relatively modern phenomenon once christianity had most of its power and influence stripped  Roll Eyes 
    Blasphemy was very much alive and well until recently. Heck even Charles Darwin realised that his work pretty much topped the blasphemy list and attempted to tone down later editions of his book to avoid the social ramifications such research would bring.

  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #52 - August 10, 2011, 11:00 PM



    One other point, blasphemy is a rarity in Christianity. The religion encourages each individual to package and present there faith uniquely. I have read works by devout Christians and stand amazed at Christianity s ability to inspire such great work. Just look at Dostoevsky and Tolstoy- Christianity is omnipresent in there novels. Something that inspires such genius must have a little genius in it self - no? 


    What about the genius of Rumi and Hafiz and so on?

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #53 - August 10, 2011, 11:52 PM

    @Sir Wankalot

    Why have you stolen my monicker?  Cry

    Quote
    Which bible have you been reading?!


    In defense of the Bible, it, like the Qur'an, is quite brilliant in certain places.
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #54 - August 11, 2011, 04:40 AM

    The prophet calling bears to kill kids was pretty good, I didn't see that one coming. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #55 - August 11, 2011, 07:13 AM

    @Sir Wankalot

    Why have you stolen my monicker?  Cry

    In defense of the Bible, it, like the Qur'an, is quite brilliant in certain places.



    YOUR moniker? Since when? I've been using it in chat for yonks... so there! Tongue

    Let's have a wankathon for the title!    :insert duelling emoticon here:

    And yes, there are good bits in all 'holy' books. It doesn't make one better than the other though, and frankly all the rubbish bits negate any nice poems or prose in the first place.

    P.S. Good to see your post again. Yous been missed  parrot

  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #56 - August 11, 2011, 10:17 AM

    The prophet calling bears to kill kids was pretty good, I didn't see that one coming. 

     Cheesy
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #57 - August 11, 2011, 11:37 AM

    Quote
    YOUR moniker? Since when? I've been using it in chat for yonks... so there!


     Cry

    Quote
    Let's have a wankathon for the title!


    Sorry, I can't right now, I'm all wanked out.

    Quote
    P.S. Good to see your post again. Yous been missed


     grin12
  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #58 - August 11, 2011, 11:53 AM

    One other point, blasphemy is a rarity in Christianity. The religion encourages each individual to package and present there faith uniquely.


    If blasphemy is a rarity in Christianity its only because Christianity was beaten down and forced to adjust itself by centuries of enlightenment thinking and secularisation and scrutiny.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: You are not real atheists
     Reply #59 - August 11, 2011, 01:08 PM

    I was interested in philosophy in my late teens and early twenties and this thread has reminded me of why I generally dislike it. Purely from my laymen perspective (no offence to enthusiasts like Z10) you could play the semantics game and justify any garbage, like Hamza Tsortzis does.
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