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Theme Changer

 Topic: The Teleporter and Our Identity

 (Read 11854 times)
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  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #30 - August 10, 2011, 10:45 PM
    Quote from: Maya on August 10, 2011, 10:27 PM
    Step into it to be teleported to where?  wacko


    Quote from: mighty_cats on August 10, 2011, 10:30 PM
    Presumably into another transporter.
    I don't think theoretical science could account for anything beyond that just yet.


    Ok, not enough info (too science-fictiony for my liking)  for me to make an informed choice at this point so I'd say no, not on your life.  Grin
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #31 - August 10, 2011, 10:48 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on August 10, 2011, 10:35 PM
    No, its not out of the question, Mighty Cats.  Its just not the process that's described in the OP.  Your molecules aren't moved anywhere, you are just scanned, destroyed and simultaneously replicated with new molecules somewhere else.  

    Its suicide guys, don't do it.   Cry


    I'd do it.

    If it wasn't me anymore, so what.  I've been trying to be anything but me for years lol.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #32 - August 10, 2011, 10:53 PM
    Quote from: Maya on August 10, 2011, 10:45 PM
    Ok, not enough info (too science-fictiony for my liking)  for me to make an informed choice at this point so I'd say no, not on your life.  Grin


    Well the lack of the machine and the technology kind of limits the details  Wink
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #33 - August 10, 2011, 10:53 PM
    Quote from: Stuff on August 10, 2011, 09:58 PM
    Not identical to, but contingent on. Things like brain injuries impairing mental function, and the fact that we can influence experience by tinkering with the brain...seem to support that notion.




    The functioning of a car is contingent upon it's engine. However, if you just have an engine, you don't have a car.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #34 - August 10, 2011, 10:56 PM
    I think the end conclusion is that in a real-world scenario, if we had them and they became as common as Escalators and planes, we'd all use them.
    Theoretics alone often do scare people, but its not exactly surprising because we dont know how they work, what the end result would be and how safe they are, just like with the idea of a Boeing 747 to someone who's never seen a plane.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #35 - August 10, 2011, 11:12 PM
    Nonsense.  I wouldn't refuse to get in a transporter just because its a new form of transport.  On the contrary, I would love to get in one if it was me emerging at the other end - but it wouldn't be.  Read the OP, you get disintegrated on the spot and a clone of you is recreated somewhere else.

    So no, count me out.  And I don't care if you can philosophise that to make me look illogical.  I like my molecules the way they are.  Angry
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #36 - August 10, 2011, 11:16 PM
    Quote from: mighty_cats on August 10, 2011, 10:32 PM
    But what exactly is that based on?
    So the idea that the molecules themselves are moved at high speeds and reassembled somewhere else is out of the question?



    that's not how teleportation scientists have acheived (at subatomic levels) works.


    Quote
    We dont even have one and yet you've determined how its going to work and its implications?


    physicists have already acheived teleportation of subatomic particles, the first successful telportation was of a photon in 1997 i think. what happens is that the quantum state of a photon is copied onto an entangled particle via quantum measurements, hence the quantum stae of the photon is simply replicated onto another photon and hence it is 100% identical. thus through quantum entaglement and quantum measurements, quantum teleportation is possible over any distance. in theory this can be scaled up to large collections of particles and even you and me - but of course so far only in theory not practice, and is currently little more than fantasy.

    the obvious question is though whether the replicated particle can be considered as the original. an obvious and initial response might be no. but we should remeber that every photon, every quark etc. is exactly the same as evry other photon and quark throughout the universe - the only difference is the quantum states they are in. if these quantum states can be replicated, then the replicate is indistingushable from the original, and for all intents and purposes is the original. therefore in the opinion of majority of physicists the proces is rightly called quantum teleportation.

    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #37 - August 10, 2011, 11:17 PM
    Quote from: Cheetah on August 10, 2011, 11:12 PM
    So no, count me out.  And I don't care if you can philosophise that to make me look illogical.  I like my molecules the way they are.  Angry


    Id hate to see someone try to give you a blood transfusion. Fists would be flying  bunny
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #38 - August 10, 2011, 11:24 PM
    OK, if I was at risk of death or serious illness then fine - you can change some molecules.  But to destroy every single one and replace it with a new set somewhere else?  Meh.....I'd rather just take the bus, thanks.   Tongue
    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #39 - August 10, 2011, 11:25 PM
    What makes us - us?

    Is it merely a combination of atoms?

    I'm yet to be certain of that.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #40 - August 10, 2011, 11:27 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 10, 2011, 11:25 PM
    Is it merely a combination of atoms?


    That's pretty much it.
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #41 - August 10, 2011, 11:29 PM
    i think it's far from certain
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #42 - August 10, 2011, 11:34 PM
    We need 100% brain transplants and for the patients to document things before and after from their point of view.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #43 - August 10, 2011, 11:41 PM
    Quote from: z10 on August 10, 2011, 10:53 PM
    The functioning of a car is contingent upon it's engine. However, if you just have an engine, you don't have a car.



    Yeah, but both the engine and the car are purely physical. You seem to think that "self" is separate from the physical components, and would be lost during transportation. Would it? Is it also lost when people are in coma? There is some brain activity, but their "self" is essentially gone while they lay in the hospital.

    Anyway. I see why people view it as suicide, after all your body (and mind,) is destroyed. However, it is also your body (and mind, I would argue) that's remade. This is why I don't think of it as 'death'. I view death as the permanent destruction of your mind, which this isn't.

    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #44 - August 10, 2011, 11:53 PM
    It’s not a teleporter if it destroys the original and makes a new version that is ‘exactly’ the same. It’s simply a replicator.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #45 - August 11, 2011, 12:43 AM
    I wanted to be a scientist working on a teleporter when I was a few years younger lol!
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #46 - August 11, 2011, 12:51 AM
    Quote from: Stuff on August 10, 2011, 11:41 PM
    Yeah, but both the engine and the car are purely physical. You seem to think that "self" is separate from the physical components, and would be lost during transportation. Would it? Is it also lost when people are in coma? There is some brain activity, but their "self" is essentially gone while they lay in the hospital.

    Anyway. I see why people view it as suicide, after all your body (and mind,) is destroyed. However, it is also your body (and mind, I would argue) that's remade. This is why I don't think of it as 'death'. I view death as the permanent destruction of your mind, which this isn't.




    What has physicality to do with it? Your defense of the brain = mind was centred on the idea that the mind is contingent on the brain. I showed how contingency is not necessarily enough to provide a full identity. Unless you can prove with full certainty that there is an identical ontology between the person entering and the person exiting the transporter then we have to say it is suicide.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #47 - August 11, 2011, 12:53 AM
    Why not just replicate yourself and be in 2 places at once.  Smiley
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #48 - August 11, 2011, 12:59 AM
    that's actually how the teleportation would work from the angle of the physicist - the orginal is not destroyed, it's merely replicated. so if you teleported yourself, you'd basically just have a twin. sorry if i just made the discusiion boring with all the science!
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #49 - August 11, 2011, 01:03 AM
    z10 and sexy worm guy, are you two basically debating this:

    Quote from: Hassan on August 10, 2011, 11:25 PM
    What makes us - us?

    Is it merely a combination of atoms?

    I'm yet to be certain of that.


    or is there soemthing else you're talking about? (i'm never quite sure about things when we get into philosophy )
    ''we are morally and philisophically in the best position to win the league'' - Arsene Wenger
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #50 - August 11, 2011, 02:45 AM
    Quote from: z10 on August 11, 2011, 12:51 AM
    What has physicality to do with it? Your defense of the brain = mind was centered on the idea that the mind is contingent on the brain. I showed how contingency is not necessarily enough to provide a full identity. Unless you can prove with full certainty that there is an identical ontology between the person entering and the person exiting the transporter then we have to say it is suicide.


    Do we have to, though? You may have shown that contingency is not necessarily enough, but how do you know that identity is definitely not preserved by teleportation? And what constitutes identity to you? What do you think of Ship of Theseus problem?

    I think of identity as a sort of relational invariance, not a completely static thing.

    @Blade Gunner:

    Kinda, yeah.


    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #51 - August 11, 2011, 04:16 PM
    If this is suicide I would totally do it. Not that I believe it is, but it would be an added incentive.

    Note: not feeling suicidal, just... curious.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #52 - August 11, 2011, 04:25 PM
    Cool question. I have a better one. Its the year 2300, you get a teleporter that can scan your body and destroy it, while simultaneously turning you into a vibrator that can belong to one of the following celebrities: Rihanna, jessica alba, salma hayek, jennifer aniston. Would you do it? Would you consider it suicide? Why?
    Quote from: King Tut on December 09, 2012, 06:28 PM
    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #53 - August 11, 2011, 04:26 PM
    No, it's too easy to get lost in Jennifer Aniston's pussy.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #54 - August 11, 2011, 04:30 PM
    As if that would be a bad thing.
    Quote from: King Tut on December 09, 2012, 06:28 PM
    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #55 - August 11, 2011, 04:33 PM
    It would be when the periods start.
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #56 - August 11, 2011, 04:33 PM
    not for me.
    Quote from: King Tut on December 09, 2012, 06:28 PM
    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #57 - August 12, 2011, 12:02 AM
    I call her Jennifer Piranhaston. Because, you know, she has a face like that of a piranha fish. Great arse and legs though!
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #58 - August 12, 2011, 01:13 AM
    This problem to me sounds suspiciously like some sort of scientific fallacy. Our cells die and reproduce new ones every second. Never am I concerned with the existential problem of my body's hourly/daily "suicide", nor do I think this problem would manifest itself as a remotely practical consideration in OP's teleportation scenario.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: The Teleporter and Our Identity
     Reply #59 - August 12, 2011, 01:48 AM
    Quote from: Stuff on August 11, 2011, 02:45 AM
    Do we have to, though? You may have shown that contingency is not necessarily enough, but how do you know that identity is definitely not preserved by teleportation? And what constitutes identity to you? What do you think of Ship of Theseus problem?

    I think of identity as a sort of relational invariance, not a completely static thing.





    I would think that ontology makes more sense, as you said earlier, in a process sense rather than a substance basis. However, I am curious how you balance the idea that it is entirely the case that we are physically different in every way from the person we were 20 years ago, with the idea that we have experience ourselves as the same person throughout this duration of time?
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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