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 Topic: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?

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  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     OP - August 14, 2011, 02:53 PM
    Hi everyone.


    I have read many many articles on this subject, and this article is by far the best, and somewhat balanced:

    http://www.Quran434.com


    It is long, which is annoying, but worth the read. Its written by a "Quranist" afaik.
    What am I? Deist / Quranist <--- Click links to Find Out More
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #1 - August 14, 2011, 03:07 PM
    Out of topic, but, isn't deistic Quranism an oxymoron?
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #2 - August 19, 2011, 06:21 AM
    Okay, let see.

    The argument that I often hear is the multiple meanings of the word Daraba. Hassan has explained this brilliantly in detail.

    And what other possible meaning than beat, could fit in here, and make sense?
    To travel, to get out: 3:156; 4:101; 38:44; 73:20; 2:273
    To strike: 2: 60,73; 7:160; 8:12; 20:77; 24:31; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4
    To beat: 8:50; 47:27
    To set up: 43:58; 57:13
    To give (examples): 14:24,45; 16:75,76,112; 18:32,45; 24:35; 30:28,58; 36:78; 39:27,29; 43:17; 59:21; 66:10,11
    To take away, to ignore: 43:5
    To condemn: 2: 61
    To seal, to draw over: 18:11
    To cover: 24:31
    To explain: 13:17

    2. As for abandoning them, Quran says Idriboohunna (أضربوهن) (beat them) (for female plural). Adriboo Anhunna (اضربوا عنهن) is used to imply abandon or leave them. [source]


    Youtube
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #3 - August 19, 2011, 06:35 AM
    Quote from: harakaat on August 14, 2011, 03:07 PM
    Out of topic, but, isn't deistic Quranism an oxymoron?


     whistling2

    Jeez, you wouldn't begrudge a man of dealing with his cognitive dissonance how he sees fit, would you?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #4 - August 19, 2011, 07:11 PM
    woah!

    Crazyislam, dude, you just loss some credibility.

    Quote
    2. As for abandoning them, Quran says Idriboohunna (أضربوهن) (beat them) (for female plural). Adriboo Anhunna (اضربوا عنهن) is used to imply abandon or leave them. [source]


    That article does not even try to promote "leave them".

    Did you erm, actually read it?


    read: Look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed

    What am I? Deist / Quranist <--- Click links to Find Out More
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #5 - August 19, 2011, 07:12 PM
    harakaat, I have no idea what you mean. Can you clarify what you meant?
    What am I? Deist / Quranist <--- Click links to Find Out More
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #6 - August 19, 2011, 07:24 PM
    Quote from: WhoMan on August 14, 2011, 02:53 PM
    Hi everyone.


    I have read many many articles on this subject, and this article is by far the best, and somewhat balanced:

    http://www.Quran434.com


    It is long, which is annoying, but worth the read. Its written by a "Quranist" afaik.


    Sorry, read too many walls of text on this subject that amount to nothing but evasive bullshit from people who are in deep denial.

    Tell me whoman:

    Do you understand Arabic?

    What do you think the verse means?
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #7 - August 19, 2011, 09:02 PM
    Quote from: WhoMan on August 19, 2011, 07:11 PM
    woah!

    Crazyislam, dude, you just loss some credibility.

    That article does not even try to promote "leave them".

    Did you erm, actually read it?


    read: Look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed




    I have, and I just mentioned in case I missed something among the word salad, I've just heard a "Quranist" making the same argument.

    So, care to address the first question? Or better, just answer Hassan.


    Youtube
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #8 - August 21, 2011, 05:00 AM
    Quote from: WhoMan on August 19, 2011, 07:12 PM
    harakaat, I have no idea what you mean. Can you clarify what you meant?


    Quote
    Deism (i/ˈdiːɪzəm/ US dict: dē′·ĭzm)[1][2] in the philosophy of religion is the standpoint that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is a creation and has a creator. Furthermore, the term often implies that this supreme being does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending to assert that a god (or "the Supreme Architect") has a plan for the universe that this god does not alter by (regularly or ever) intervening in the affairs of human life. This idea is also known as the Clockwork universe theory, in which a god designs and builds the universe, but steps aside to let it run on its own. Deists believe in the existence of a god without any reliance on revealed religion, religious authority or holy books.


    Quote
    Quranism is an Islamic denomination that holds the Qur'an to be the only canonical text in Islam. Quranists reject the religious authority of Hadith and often Sunnah, libraries compiled by later scholars who catalogued narratives of what the Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said and done, which orthodox Muslims such as Shias and Sunnis consider essential for the Islamic faith.


    So basically, Quranism is just orthodox Islam without the Sunnah, and therefore with more ijtihaad and less taqleed. It is not a major, fundamental, philosophical rethinking of Islamic attitudes. Unless you have your own kind of Quranism, of course. But even then, I can't see how you can be a Deist, given the definition above, and follow any kind of Quranism.

    In fact, the most liberal of Muslims consider the Quran to be holy only in meaning, and that the words were Muhammad's. Which accounts for the linguistic/scientific/consistency problems. It is my understanding that you defend the Quran as infallible. Then again, I'm not really sure I understand your position. I think you should write a detailed post telling us all exactly what you think.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #9 - September 01, 2011, 09:52 PM
    Hassan,

    I know some Arabic yes. I mainly have books on Quranic grammar etc.

    And my view is the same as the site I linked to. It seems the most thorough and convincing. Unless you can refute it or some of its points etc?

    What if I say your dismissal of the link implies you are the one giving us evasive bullshit?  grin12


    I dont know about you, but I prefer an evidence based approach. If you have contrary evidence, let us know.
    What am I? Deist / Quranist <--- Click links to Find Out More
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #10 - September 01, 2011, 09:56 PM
    harakaat,

    See my intro post.

    I'm a deist, and IF i had to choose a system most sound to me, it would be quran based islam or commonly called "quranist".
    What am I? Deist / Quranist <--- Click links to Find Out More
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #11 - September 02, 2011, 06:53 PM
    The funniest is when people say you can only hit your wife with something as big as a miswaak. Okay, I'll hit someone with a miswaak and see if they obey me the next time I order them around. Cheesy
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #12 - September 05, 2011, 11:41 AM
    why on Earth do Quranists still add the bogus (then)..!!

    Quote
    And as for those women you fear their uprising/disloyalty, then you shall advise them, and (then) abandon them in the bed, and (then) idriboo them.


    These are no where in the original Arabic verse!!
    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: Quran and wife beating - what does it really say?
     Reply #13 - September 05, 2011, 02:44 PM
    Quote from: crazyislam on August 19, 2011, 06:21 AM
    Okay, let see.

    The argument that I often hear is the multiple meanings of the word Daraba. Hassan has explained this brilliantly in detail.

    And what other possible meaning than beat, could fit in here, and make sense?
    To travel, to get out: 3:156; 4:101; 38:44; 73:20; 2:273
    To strike: 2: 60,73; 7:160; 8:12; 20:77; 24:31; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4
    To beat: 8:50; 47:27
    To set up: 43:58; 57:13
    To give (examples): 14:24,45; 16:75,76,112; 18:32,45; 24:35; 30:28,58; 36:78; 39:27,29; 43:17; 59:21; 66:10,11
    To take away, to ignore: 43:5
    To condemn: 2: 61
    To seal, to draw over: 18:11
    To cover: 24:31
    To explain: 13:17

    2. As for abandoning them, Quran says Idriboohunna (أضربوهن) (beat them) (for female plural). Adriboo Anhunna (اضربوا عنهن) is used to imply abandon or leave them. [source]

    I don't get Hassan. In one place he gives short shrift to people who try and "soften" the meaning of what  he himself calls "the nasty facts of Shari'ah" and lambasts them for engaging in "the typical double-talk way of accommodating yet trying to distance Islam from the moral implication of them."

    But in ANOTHER PLACE he writes

    Quote
    Regardless of how you or I wish to define Islam - it is not up to us but those who call themselves Muslims. I would no more impose my view that Christianity clearly considers homosexuality a sin, on a Christian who does not regard it as a sin - than I would impose my view that the Qur'an clearly allows a man to hit his wife on a Muslim who interprets; "Hit" as; "Leave her alone" - regardless of how absurd I may think those views to be.


    Is this guy suffering from some kind of multiple personality disorder or something?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
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