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 Topic: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.

 (Read 7231 times)
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  • How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     OP - August 17, 2011, 12:04 AM

    Hi,
    I have been lurking around this forum for quite some time now, thought I should register and share my story, how and why I turned away from Islam and became an Agnostic.

    I belong to the worst part of the world called Pakistan, Where you can easily get beheaded if you claim apostasy, So I plan to keep myself closet agnostic until if I move to some secular country.

    I belong to a religious family, although my father is a little open minded, but my mother observe 5 time prayer, though she does not enforce me to pray, but seldom suggest me to, but she is very strict on Fasting, which made me to pretend fasting this Ramadan.
    At first I believed in everything what Mullahs told me, even that we will have face market in Heaven, you choose the face you wish to put on you. I thought that Islam is a complete religion with the Hadith and Quran since my childhood. At the age of 19 I started reading hadith books and Quran with Translation. After I started reading the hadiths, I was astonished with the amount of barbaric, unscientific and contradicting hadiths. Discussions with other Muslims convinced me that I should only accept those hadiths that do not contradict Quran and are Shih Muslim and Bukhari Hadiths. I was still confused with Hadiths where Muhammad suggested that we should drink Camel urine if we are sick, I could not buy that, also the stoning to death punishment for adulterers, and that a prayer is nullified if a dog or a Woman passes in front of you, and that prophet married 9 year old girl. Scientific errors included “Adam was a 90 foot giant”, “The sun goes under Allah's chair”, “The moon has light”, “No one knows when it will rain” and many other. Based on this, I rejected all the hadiths because if a part of a book is in error, you don’t know if the other part is correct, and became a Quran only Muslim, My belief was Quran is the Islam, as its mentioned in Quran that it’s a complete book and you should not believe other books. By doing that a hell lot of Questions arose, first you can’t practice Islam without the help of Hadiths, everyone around me questioned, how will you offer Salat (Contact Prayer)? , My focus was also diverted on a verse which says Obey God and Obey Messenger, and that obeying Messenger is obeying God.  I thought how can I obey Messenger if he is dead, He can’t give orders anymore, so does this mean that Hadiths are really correct? , I still rejected Hadiths, but this question haunted me for 6 Years. I kept on reading the Quran, saw dozens of Harun Yahya videos on scientific accuracy in Quran, and whole heartedly believed that this is truly the book of God.

    Except 5 time prayers I tried my best to act upon all the commands, I never touched a woman, I never touched alcohol, I fasted regularly, offered Friday prayers regularly, also encouraged others to read Quran with translation and understand its meaning, I was reading Quran daily and watched videos of scholars such as Zakir Naik who emphasize on Quran mostly.

    While reading Quran I came across many verses which are taboo, even in current Muslim society. There were rules for Slavery, and it completely blew my mind that, GOD Allow Slavery ? , but I kept my mouth shut and said this is the will of the God, deal with it, and continued reading Quran. At the start of this year I came across many verses which said that you can have sex with your wife and what your right hand possesses (Slaves). I was like; What the hell? I can have sex slaves ? I was never told about this by any scholar or Mullah, they never mention such hidden secrets of Quran. I questioned about this with my parents that why does Quran allow Sex Slaves? Although I did not use the exact words, but she understood me. But it seems she do not have knowledge of this herself, she said no you have misunderstood the verse. But on investigating further it was cleared that it does mean sex Slave and its mentioned in many verses. At this stage I went into deep depression and was thinking about suicide all the time, as the religion which I worshipped my whole life is not the religion I assumed. But still I was sure that this is a Book from God, as it is proved that it contained many scientific miracles, science facts which could only have been known recently.

    I am a man but, Women rights are always second in Quran, but still Mullahs claim Quran gave rights to women. Quran is actually very unfair to women, examples are;

    1. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female. Quran: 4:11
    2. Husband is allowed to beat women if they disobey. Quran: 4:34 and 38:44
    3. You can have female sex slaves but not male sex slaves. Quran: 4:24 and many other verses.
    4. Man get virgins in Heaven, but Women get nothing ?
    5. Women should cover themselves but man shouldn’t except from private parts.
    6. Men are above women, Quran: 2:228
    7. 4 Wives, but not 4 Husbands. Quran: 4:3
    8. Menstruation is an illness. Quran: 2:222
    9. Wives are field to plow ? Quran: 2:223
    10. Lewd women are to be confined to their houses until death. Quran: 4:15
    11. Exchanging Wives, AKA Wife swapping but no Husband swapping ? Quran: 4:20

    Okay, I just remembered I can’t put all the hundred verses I have in mind here; that would make my story too long Smiley , the above verses are just plain disgusting.

    Now I was sure there is something seriously wrong with this book. But still second thoughts kicked in, what about all those scientific miracles?

    It was time to start investigating all those scientific verses which I believed as miracles.
    I was amazed how much astronomy was mentioned in Quran, but investigating a few verses quickly uncovered the fraud.
    Embryology: Mullah videos claim that the actual stages of baby in a womb is bones first, then flesh according to Quran which have been proved by science; but in Actual, bones and flesh develop simultaneously.

    Sun Orbit: The sun sets in the murky water, but Mullahs say its pictured as Zul-qarnain! Saw, but not in actual. Okay fine, we will talk about this later, I need to discuss other verses to prove this one.

    It has been mentioned in many verses that earth is spread out like a carpet, but Mullahs claim that it say earth is Egg shaped, and not any egg but ostrich egg. First of all, ostrich egg is no way like the shape of the earth, I have seen many ostrich eggs, they are more like an oval while earth is almost a perfect sphere. Previously the 79:30 was translated like; And after that He spread the earth, (Pickthall). But now its translated as “He made the earth egg-shaped.” The word in question is the verb (dahâ). This verb comes from the tri-literal root d-h-w, and it appears in the Quran in relation to the Earth, this word conveys one concept in the Arabic language: that of “spreading, leveling, flattening, and smoothing out” With respect to this word’s association with eggs, it is as follows:
    Due to the fact that the word conveys the meaning of “spreading, leveling, flattening, and smoothing out”, the Arabs named the place where an ostrich incubates and hatches its egg an "udhiyy". This is a hollow pit in the ground around 30 to 60 centimeters deep. The Arabic word for this shallow depression is derived from the triliteral root d-h-w – the same etymological root as the verb dahâ. The reason for this is that the ostrich spreads out and flattens this area with its legs before laying its egg in it. The ostrich uses neither a nest nor a burrow for its eggs.  From this, we must understand that the word is not used for the egg itself but rather for the flattened depression where the ostrich deposits its egg. Also Quran proves that earth is flat by placing mountains as pegs to stop it from shaking similar to placing pins on a paper. No scientist claims that mountains prevent earth from shaking, but in actual mountains are formed by movement of tectonic plates and cause earth to shake, that’s why we have earthquakes, and it contradicts Quran directly.

    So the stars rise and sets;  Quran: 81:16, The stars which rise and set (PICKTHAL).  Also in 36:40, It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. (PICKTHAL) ,  Mullahs say it’s a miracle, as both sun and moon move in an orbit, Sun indeed move in an orbit to the center of the Milkyway galaxy, but what does that have to do with day and night ? What is the connection between the orbit of moon and sun ? It is like saying a person driving a car in London can’t overtake a person driving a car in New York. Quran is actually saying that Sun and moon are in the same orbit which is proved by another verse of Quran 91:1-2, By the Sun and his (glorious) splendour; By the Moon as she follows him; (YUSUFALI) , So if moon follows Sun, what is solar eclipse? The collision of moon with Sun ? Additionally I have many a times seen both Sun and moon in day hours, so Moon does not wait for the sun to go down. Which actually proves the verse I mentioned earlier that sun sets in murky water, as earth is Flat.

    More Scientific errors: The shadow moves because of sun movement, not because of earth movement. Quran: 25:45 Hast thou not seen how thy Lord hath spread the shade - And if He willed He could have made it still - then We have made the sun its pilot; (PICKTHAL). Quran: 81:2, And when the stars fall (PICKTHAL), so the stars are small enough to fall on earth ?  Quran: 71:15 says that moon is located in the middle of the universe and therefore  37:6 says that stars are closer than moon. Quran: 71:16, And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp? Moon is noor which emits light, the Arabic word for reflected (in`ikaas) does not appear in the verse. Quran 7:54, Sun is not a star. Quran 2:29, Earth was created first then heaven.

    There are many other scientific claims which contradict science in Quran. It is impossible to act upon Quran’s commandments if you live at polar region where sun never sets for many days or months. Muslims claims that you should match the timing of mecca to fast in Ramadan if the sun doesn’t set in your area.  This means a Muslim is rejecting Gods commandments of fasting whole day ? If one is a good Muslim he should fast to death, as you can only eat at sunset.  Similarly the idea of 5 time prayers which are attached to daylight is not applicable to polar regions, therefore Quran can’t be for all of Humanity ? As Muhammad thought that the earth is flat therefore he ordered everyone to face towards Kabba when praying, because he never knew in a spherical world facing Kabba will also mean facing your back to Kabba.
    It opened my mind completely, the feeling was like the Genie in Aladdin cartoon, where he was set free and his handcuffs were released. Muslims brainwash their children like all other religions into believing something that is not real. They reveal what they deem fit, and conceal what they don’t like. I also investigated Bible a little and it is also similar to Quran in unscientific and contradictory verses, but a little less barbaric.

    I am an agnostic now, a free thinker; I do not reject the existence of God or supernatural being, but we currently do not have any evidence about his existence. If he truly wanted to order his men to live life by his prescribed way, then I am sure there are better ways than giving a book to a random person on earth. It can’t be bound by a language which most of the world don’t understand.
    Islam is not a religion of peace as proclaimed by Muslim missionaries. Its unfair to women, and cruel to people, It encourages bloodshed. Its unscientific, primitive and barbaric.

    Regards,
    A lonely man in a barbaric country, Pakistan
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #1 - August 17, 2011, 12:33 AM

    Dear exslave.  A warm welcome to you.

    I am very impressed with the research you have done on your own,
    and also how brave you have been to search for the truth.

    Yes, it gets lonely, and yes, sometimes its downright depressing
    realizing you have been following a fake religion.  I think many of
    us felt the same way.

    But hang in there, lots of support here for you  Smiley

    And have a welcome jinn from me! ghost

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #2 - August 17, 2011, 01:00 AM

    ExSlave welcome!!!

    Bravo on the research brother bravo!  Afro

    yea women's rights always bothered me in islam.

    yes this Islam is all bullshit. Word of advice: dont argue with ur parents over it. They are too blinded and will not be convinced by your arguments.

    Dude there are many liberal pakistanis ! sure most of the country is fucked but places like karachi, islamabad, lahore is full of very secular minded people. Hope you find more like minded people.

    where would u like to move out to if you were to leave pakistan ? have u visited any countries out side of pakistan ?

    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #3 - August 17, 2011, 01:55 AM

    I do not plan on revealing this truth to my parents, as I know this will hurt them, and if news spread, I can get killed, it is very common here. My friends and some relatives say that you have the right to kill even if someone says that Muhammad is not the last Prophet. I can only imagine what like-minded will do to an apostate of Islam.

    I have only been once out of Pakistan, went to Dubai as a tourist. I wish to immigrate to any European country that have significant proportion of athiest/agnostic population someday.

    I am very depressed these days, as my parents are asking me to marry, and there are only Muslim girls to choose from. As I can't declare I am an agnostic, I can't be upfront to the women I marry, and I also don't want to be dishonest about it. I am just saying to my parents that I love my single life, don't want to get married. I know I don't stand a change in this country. I will have to get out of here to find a right partner for me. Although I am a successful businessman, but I am thinking of studying abroad just to escape this foolish society.
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #4 - August 17, 2011, 02:26 AM

    assalamualaikum,
    i can totally understand where you are coming from . our stories are very similar. except i moved from pakistan to canada in my late teens. also i actually even used to pray five times a day and on time too. i even paid 'zakaat' even though one could make an argument that it wasn't obligatory on me. i just haven't done hajj or even umrah.



    indeed the status of women in islam always bothered me. apart from the things you mentioned there is also the inheritance and testimony of a woman being less than a man's. that bothers me greatly as well. it is so unfair.

    i too have no plans of telling anyone about this. my wife is the only one who knows. i am very glad she is understanding although i know it worries her.

    i wish my family and friends would see that islam is just as bad or good as any other religion out there. i wish... but i too don't want to break their hearts. and i don't think i will ever tell anyone.

    BUT i am not depressed. i am very happy now. much happier. even though i am not in pakistan i am surrounded by muslims all the time. i did cry a lot the night i first posted on these forums. i cried out loud around ten times.. i said "please show me a sign Allah i don't wan to lose you, I can't live this way." but as usual there was no reply. so I embraced my new understanding of this world.
    i learned to cherish this life and feel fortunate to have experienced even one of the millions of beautiful moments i have experienced. now i think i am at peace with the idea that there probably isn't a god out there.
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #5 - August 17, 2011, 02:32 AM

    I do not plan on revealing this truth to my parents, as I know this will hurt them, and if news spread, I can get killed, it is very common here. My friends and some relatives say that you have the right to kill even if someone says that Muhammad is not the last Prophet. I can only imagine what like-minded will do to an apostate of Islam.

    I have only been once out of Pakistan, went to Dubai as a tourist. I wish to immigrate to any European country that have significant proportion of athiest/agnostic population someday.

    I am very depressed these days, as my parents are asking me to marry, and there are only Muslim girls to choose from. As I can't declare I am an agnostic, I can't be upfront to the women I marry, and I also don't want to be dishonest about it. I am just saying to my parents that I love my single life, don't want to get married. I know I don't stand a change in this country. I will have to get out of here to find a right partner for me. Although I am a successful businessman, but I am thinking of studying abroad just to escape this foolish society.


    yea man studying abroad is a great option. studying also gets the desi parents off your back when it comes to marriage.

    Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense. - Voltaire
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #6 - August 17, 2011, 02:41 AM

    welcome ExSlave,

    being from a pakistani background myself I can sympathize with you, even though i do live in the uk,
    A lot of my friends and especially my family are not willing to hear the quran or islam being criticized.
    It does get frustrating at times when you have to pretend but i guess its just something that has to be done.

    Anyway good luck with what you decide to do  Smiley 
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #7 - August 17, 2011, 03:15 AM

    Wow, well thought out introductory post ExSlave. Though many points ring true, the one I feel most aggrieved about is the state of the hellhole now known as Pakistan.  Cry

    Anyway welcome to the forums, where I hope you'll find an outlet for your "dangerous heretical" views.

    Also have a rabbit!  bunny

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #8 - August 17, 2011, 04:03 AM

    Welcome to the forum exslave. I am from Pakistan too and can relate to many of the points you mentioned. I even went through similar sort of phases before leaving Islam.
    I am out of Pakistan now however in another muslim country which is no better.
    Hang in there buddy and now that you are interacting member of this forum I hope you will benefit further by participating in discussions here.
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #9 - August 17, 2011, 04:10 AM

    Great exslave! Love your username grin12

    Too bad that you've to pretend to be one for a while. Still you don't have to be dishonest to yourself, and that's the best thing  Afro

    Here have a  parrot
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #10 - August 17, 2011, 06:12 AM

    Welcome ExSlave,
    Being stuck surrounded by strict Muslims (some of whom are dangerous) and pretending to be one all day can be frustrating and depressing.
    That's why it's good to let off steam here and take a break from harsh reality every once in a while. At least here you won't feel so alone.

    I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
    In somebody else's sky, but why, why, why
    Can't it be, can't it be mine

    https://twitter.com/AlharbiMoe
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #11 - August 17, 2011, 08:31 AM

    great share strengthened my faith in atheism...
    you are not alone buddy ...I am also from this crap country Fuckistan

    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #12 - August 17, 2011, 09:05 AM

    Welcome and thanks for the elaborate introduction! Have a parrot  parrot. I sinserely hope you will be in a position to live as an apostate!  Afro

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #13 - August 17, 2011, 09:07 AM

    I belong to the worst part of the world called Pakistan...A lonely man in a barbaric country, Pakistan

    Hey bro, welcome and good story, but I don't agree with those statements about Pakistan. I've found that Pakistan is actually a fairly good country to live in as an ex muslim as long as you don't discuss religion or politics. Also the larger cities are actually fairly liberal, nowadays I come across a lot of chicks wearing jeans and doing no purdah. If you're in a smaller city of Pakistan, I'd recommend moving to a bigger city and you might find your life a lot easier! Pakistan is definitely better than saudia or afghanistan where there are probably punishments if you don't say prayers or eat during ramadan, etc.

    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #14 - August 17, 2011, 09:12 AM

    faith in atheism...



    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #15 - August 17, 2011, 10:43 AM

    Hey man,

    Great story thanks for sharing.

    Sorry to hear that you're in the situation you're in, I hope you do get to move out of your country and live life in the way you desire.

    Quote
    9. Wives are field to plow ? Quran: 2:223


    LOL, I forgot about that verse, that is blatant objectification of women.



  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #16 - August 17, 2011, 12:48 PM

    LOL, I forgot about that verse, that is blatant objectification of women.

    I agree, it should be, wives are TVs that don't have a mute button.


    Yeah an I am super ugly, I can't even beat my chest am too skinny and when I roaaar to attract women, they laugh at me, because it sounds like a girl screaming. I can't even attract any bitches!  Cry

  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #17 - August 17, 2011, 04:11 PM

    I have a lot of other verses from Quran in my mind which are in error. I will post in this thread to help all those who wish to investigate Islam.
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #18 - August 17, 2011, 04:20 PM

    QURAN:

    086.005
    YUSUFALI: Now let man but think from what he is created!
    PICKTHAL: So let man consider from what he is created.
    SHAKIR: So let man consider of what he is created:

    086.006
    YUSUFALI: He is created from a drop emitted-
    PICKTHAL: He is created from a gushing fluid
    SHAKIR: He is created of water pouring forth,

    086.007
    YUSUFALI: Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:
    PICKTHAL: That issued from between the loins and ribs.
    SHAKIR: Coming from between the back and the ribs.

    This clearly states that Human is created from sperm produced in the kidneys, but Scholars claim that its actually talking about fluid which is produced when Man is pleased first, okay lets believe that this is correct, This verse is actually talking about that Fluid but not the sperm. But even in that case the Quran is in major error, That fluid is not responsible for creation of baby, and Quran clearly contradicts it. Testicles are responsible for producing Sperm and without it you can't impregnate a woman.
    Another apology which many Muslims give is; that testicles get blood supply from between the ribs and backbone, that's why this verse is a miracle. They will claim anything to prove them right. PS, I was like that too Cheesy
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #19 - August 18, 2011, 04:35 PM

    Quran: 12:04-5 , PICKTHAL: When Joseph said unto his father: O my father! Lo! I saw in a dream eleven planets and the sun and the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves unto me. He said: O my dear son! Tell not thy brethren of thy vision, lest they plot a plot against thee. Lo! Satan is for man an open foe.
    So it was a vision, but We do not have 11 Planets, There are only 8 Known planets, but if we even consider dwarf planets, than they are 14.
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #20 - August 18, 2011, 04:57 PM


    086.007
    YUSUFALI: Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:
    PICKTHAL: That issued from between the loins and ribs.
    SHAKIR: Coming from between the back and the ribs.


    The Tafsirs tend to negate this issue by providing an explanation:
    Quote
    Abbas: (That issued from between the loins) of a man (and ribs) the ribs of a woman.


    Quote
    Jalalyn:issuing from between the loins, of the man, and the breast-bones, of the woman.


    Quote
    Kathir: (Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) meaning, the backbone (or loins) of the man and the ribs of the woman, which is referring to her chest. Shabib bin Bishr reported from `Ikrimah who narrated from Ibn `Abbas that he said, (Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.) "The backbone of the man and the ribs of the woman. It (the fluid) is yellow and fine in texture. The child will not be born except from both of them (i.e., their sexual fluids).'' Concerning Allah's statement...


    Its still most certainly wrong, but the 'backbone' aspect can be somewhat negated by muslims if they are educated enough in the subject, especially since a direct detailing of the genitals were considered improper at the time the literature was written down.

    In classic arabic, the term used for 'backbone' is transferable with the loin region and this is also what the Tafsirs detail in most cases (although I don't see how the 'rib' part, whether relating to the man OR woman could ever be considered accurate at all, because it cant and doesn't make sense either way), so atleast from a scriptural perspective --this particular backbone problem can be shrugged off by muslims.

    Its usually best to consult the Tafsirs and any corresponding hadiths on any verse which is ultimately questionable at face value. (Particularly Bukhari, Abbas and Kathir), seeing as the Quran is incredibly vague, poorly structured and abstract in most cases.
  • Re: How & Why I left Islam, from Pakistan.
     Reply #21 - August 18, 2011, 09:45 PM

    Mighty_Cats, Just saw one of your video and I am impressed, just found this verse about falling of sky. How could have I missed this one before ?
    YousafAli tried to change the meaning of the verse by Adding rain in brackets  Cheesy

    Quran: 22:65
    YUSUFALI: Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky (rain) from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man.
    PICKTHAL: Hast thou not seen how Allah hath made all that is in the earth subservient unto you? And the ship runneth upon the sea by His command, and He holdeth back the heaven from falling on the earth unless by His leave. Lo! Allah is, for mankind, Full of Pity, Merciful.
    SHAKIR: Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except with His permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men.
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