Are you racist?

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- strangestdude
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Are you racist?
OP - September 03, 2011, 08:40 PM

I re-watched a video I made on my experiences within the british muslim community, and started to think about the racism/nationalism that exists in the muslim community.

Whilst I was a muslim I came across ethnocentric muslim groups/communities hating/excluding others not of their race, and nationalistic muslim/communities hating/excluding others who's parents/grandparents weren't of the same nationality.

I came across open racism/nationalism whilst looking for a wife in the muslim community, and on singlemuslim.com ie. Bengali only, Asian only, etc. Other muslim friends who were black, mixed race, or white experienced the same problems.

I eventually came to realize that tribalism was rife in the muslim community and was IMO even worse than in secular communities which muslims looked down upon.

Since leaving Islam I realize one way how racism can develop is by having consistently bad experiences with people of one race, and not fostering the seperation of race and culture in the mind (ie. equating their behaviour as intrinsic to their race, instead of a product of their culture).

I realized that because towards the last year of my life as muslim, I began to develop an instant dislike for Asian people. Whenever I would meet them I incline towards stereotyping them as racist.

Thankfully my subconscious is alot better but I still dislike hearing urdu, clothing originating from the indo-pak subcontinent, and I still assume that if an Asian person isn't sociable towards me they are racist.

Just to reitrate my racism is a subconscious inclination, not something consciously fostered or propagated. And although I'm black I still have a similar reaction to other black men who seem to be into 'urban' or west indian culture due to my childhood (not having stereotypically 'black' interests and being bullied as a result).

My wife is mixed race - part asian part black - and has experienced racism from her fellow Asian muslim peers during her life, and as a consequence she has an aversion to Asian muslims. And she's even experience racism from her own Asian family members.

Here's the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1ehBNZOwh0

How many people held racist inclinations/views whilst they were muslims, and why?

How many people here still hold racist inclinations/views since apostating and why?

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #1 - September 03, 2011, 08:46 PM

None.

Except that unbelievers will burn in hell. And even then it was very uncomfortable for me to accept...

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #2 - September 03, 2011, 09:12 PM

I am not racist as fundamentally we are all human beings & I do not hate any other race. However, I do have a natural affinity to my own kind (Pakistanis) & I love the urdu language & the culture of Pakistan. The only thing I don't like about Pakistan & Pakistanis is their allegiance to & following of Islam. I never have deep down.
I will also add that, in my experience, what you've said about asians is correct. Many are racist when it comes to the crunch in the same way many white people are racist when it comes to the crunch. Human beings are pack animals that like to identify themselevs with a particular group & they do subconciously try to protect & show allegiance to their group. There is no denying it. I hope it will change though over time as it is not a good way of thinking about other human beings.

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #3 - September 03, 2011, 09:23 PM

I was raised not to be a racist, and I think I never was actually. Moreover, untill a few decades ago, I had the impression that racism was an exclusive sin of white Europeans and Americans, and that racism was not present elsewhere. I am relieved that racism is more generally spread then I was taught....

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #4 - September 03, 2011, 09:27 PM

Good video, Mr Dude. I'm not an ex-Muslim, so perhaps it's not my place to reply to your question.

I think everyone in the world is racist, in different ways and to different degrees. It's not something to be scared of.

Common courtesy and basic empathy are very good at defusing run-of-the-mill prejudices.

Deeper, nastier racism seems to stem from a weird cocktail of fear, arrogance and insecurity and, while found everywhere, is most prevalent in inward-looking societies.
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #5 - September 03, 2011, 09:41 PM

Quote
I was raised not to be a racist, and I think I never was actually. Moreover, until a few decades ago, I had the impression that racism was an exclusive sin of white Europeans and Americans, and that racism was not present elsewhere. I am relieved that racism is more generally spread then I was taught....

LOL, I wouldnt be relieved
but ya, Try traveling through Asia with a black guy.

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superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #6 - September 03, 2011, 09:44 PM

Every single day of my life. And I continually have to fight it because I know it's the right thing to do. I was inculcated with racism until it became hard wired and, like religion, it's one of those horrid things about being human that I've had to work hard to jettison. I've mainly succeeded, I think, but eternal self vigilance and flagellation seem necessary in my case. Perhaps it's a generational thing.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #7 - September 03, 2011, 09:44 PM

I liked your video, strangestdude, not sure if it revealed anything new going on in the ummah since the times of Ibn Khaldun, but who cares? Everything has been said already anyway.
I am curious what kind of world would you like to see as it pertains to racism. I want to read Utopia, by strangestdude.

P.S. My girlfriend said there are no races. How is that possible?

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #8 - September 03, 2011, 09:45 PM

Deleted. (It was too mean because I needed a cig and was getting too cranky.)

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #9 - September 03, 2011, 10:01 PM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on September 03, 2011, 09:44 PM
I liked your video, strangestdude, not sure if it revealed anything new going on in the ummah since the times of Ibn Khaldun, but who cares? Everything has been said already anyway.
I am curious what kind of world would you like to see as it pertains to racism. I want to read Utopia, by strangestdude.

P.S. My girlfriend said there are no races. How is that possible?

Most opinion, now, is that 'races' are just exaggerated familial differences but I don't go with that entirely given that there are more genetic differences between the different popns. in different parts of Africa than between N E Africa and the rest of the world. We also know that some of us have c. 3% Neanderthal genes and about the same %age have Denisovan genes and that must have had some impact on the modern Human sub-genomes.

Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #10 - September 03, 2011, 10:04 PM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on September 03, 2011, 09:45 PM
Deleted. (It was too mean because I needed a cig

But you made me laugh as you smoked.
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #11 - September 03, 2011, 10:15 PM

Quote from: strangestdude on September 03, 2011, 08:40 PM

How many people held racist inclinations/views whilst they were muslims, and why?

How many people here still hold racist inclinations/views since apostating and why?

I'm not racist. I have black friends.

No seriously, I wish I could put my hand on my heart and say I am not racist at all, but I think I am to some.

If racism is stereotyping and discriminating against someone due to their country of origin, then the fact that I instantly feel creeped out and on guard around moroccan men and would discriminate against one when it came to dating, then I guess I am. Especially if one of the litmus tests is to date or marry a person of the race in question.

It's not racism since Islam is not a race, but also any muslim also gets my back up. I have like instant judgements that I find hard to shake off.

Its terrible to say that its an almost guilty until proven innocent situation with them nowadays. To me they must surely think of me as trash for being an ex muslim, so my judgement is instant, and it is then on them to show they don't.

Same as for a Moroccan man, guilty until proven innocent. Same for the females, two faced cows until proven better.

This is down to bad experiences. Stereotyping is ever a way at trying to define a world in which we feel unsafe in. If you can know it quickly you can defend against it. Its not good as an attitude, and I catch myself thinking or feeling this way and I know its wrong.

I wouldn't discriminate in work, or those sort of situations, but I do discriminate almost instantly for dating or friendship and that is a fail part of me I think.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #12 - September 03, 2011, 10:17 PM

^morrocan is not a race and female is a different species altogether, so there, berbs, you're not racist.

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #13 - September 03, 2011, 10:21 PM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on September 03, 2011, 10:17 PM
^morrocan is not a race and female is a different species altogether, so there, berbs, you're not racist.

Well my conscience feels better.

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #14 - September 03, 2011, 10:34 PM

I really love you, berbs.

(Disclaimer: Bismillahi rrahmani rrhaeem, this is not flirting, it implies only brotherly love and should not be interpreted in any other way.)

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #15 - September 03, 2011, 10:39 PM

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #16 - September 03, 2011, 10:44 PM

Always warms my heart when women burst out with laughter in response to my confessions of love. Always.

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #17 - September 04, 2011, 11:18 AM

Nice videos, strangestdude.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #18 - September 04, 2011, 11:40 AM

I'd admit to being racist due to extreme indoctrination and my family being very racist however I recognize the racism in me and have to actively suppress it and don't act upon it. I wish one day I'd treat everyone equally without the need to actively counteract my upbringing.

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #19 - September 04, 2011, 12:24 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on September 03, 2011, 10:21 PM

Well my conscience feels better.

Berbs, what about Moroccan ex-Muslims?

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #20 - September 04, 2011, 01:04 PM

I used to think that but now I realize that people don't fit the common stereotypes of races all the time and when ever I do feel like putting people into groups like that, I remember the good people of that race.

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Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #21 - September 04, 2011, 01:25 PM

Quote from: harakaat on September 04, 2011, 12:24 PM
Berbs, what about Moroccan ex-Muslims?

I wouldn't mind them. I know a couple on the internet, and I like them. I know its not right to think this way. But I guess for me I know that if they are atheists then they have thought outside of the Moroccan box since Islam and Morocco go hand in hand, and in that I see something that I can identify with.

Most of my life they treated me like an outsider anyway because I was half white, yet too brown, cultural stupidity and racism, all enhanced by religion, and ideas of raisin heads.

As an ex muslim, well so many ideas would have been challenged already.

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #22 - September 04, 2011, 02:14 PM

I'm racist against Micronesians and the people of San Marino. Fucking scum.

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #23 - September 04, 2011, 03:55 PM

And as for those Andorrans...
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #24 - September 04, 2011, 04:09 PM

Quote from: strangestdude on September 03, 2011, 08:40 PM
I realized that because towards the last year of my life as muslim, I began to develop an instant dislike for Asian people. Whenever I would meet them I incline towards stereotyping them as racist.

I still assume that if an Asian person isn't sociable towards me they are racist.

I still tend to be prejudiced in this way. It's something I'm making a serious effort to change but I just can't help recalling so many women scootching away from me in the middle of salat, the dirty looks at religious functions and halal meat markets and the visible amount of effort Pakistani/Indian/Arab people seemed and seem to make in order to avoid me physically in various situations. I realize that this thought isn't given to everyone of those particular descents, just the ones who give me the side eye in social settings and more so from the ones who are visibly religious. I'm sure I'll build a bridge and get over it soon but it's still something I struggle with, unfortunately. -Shrug-

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #25 - September 04, 2011, 04:19 PM

Once you stop stereotyping others how can you see racism towards yourself? How?

"That it is indeed the speech of an illustrious messenger" (The Koran 69:40)
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #26 - September 04, 2011, 04:37 PM

Quote from: Homo Sapien on September 03, 2011, 09:12 PM
Many are racist when it comes to the crunch in the same way many white people are racist when it comes to the crunch.

I disagree that white people are as racist as Asians/somolian/arab/enthnocentric muslims (if that's what you are implying. Although racial tensions obviously exists it isn't that bad, as evidenced by the rise in Mixed race children, and also the majority don't tend to explicitly try to create an

Here's an interesting article regarding a poll comparing Asian attitudes on race to whites in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2007/08_august/06/poll.shtml

Quote from: David on September 03, 2011, 09:27 PM
Good video, Mr Dude. I'm not an ex-Muslim, so perhaps it's not my place to reply to your question.

I think everyone in the world is racist, in different ways and to different degrees. It's not something to be scared of.

Thanks for the appreciation. And I agree - also I think it's of benefit if people have open and honest discussions. I think stereotypes can be rational sometimes (ie. if it's backed up by evidence like crime statistics) but it's also good to leave room in our minds for people who won't fit into the stereotype.

Quote from: sojournerlumus on September 03, 2011, 09:44 PM
Every single day of my life. And I continually have to fight it because I know it's the right thing to do.

Thanks for your honesty. I agree - it's something I'll probably have to continually work on.

An alternative to religion;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #27 - September 04, 2011, 04:40 PM

I am not racist... I think.
I am "culturist" tho.

I have prejudices based on what culture people come from.
But I apply it more to the behavior of masses, than to a single individual.

Hari Seldon agrees.

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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #28 - September 04, 2011, 04:41 PM

Quote from: Naerys on September 04, 2011, 02:14 PM
I'm racist against Micronesians and the people of San Marino. Fucking scum.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
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Re: Are you racist?
Reply #29 - September 04, 2011, 04:47 PM

Quote from: Alex Lam Meem on September 03, 2011, 09:44 PM

P.S. My girlfriend said there are no races. How is that possible?

actually, she is correct. there's only one race, technically, the human race.

One of the first things I learned in anthropology. So racism technically does
not exist.

Kind of like everyone believing george washington's teeth were wood.
They were not. They were bone, ivory, and he paid his slaves to donate
teeth for his dentures.

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