World Atheist Convention 2012

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- Saffire
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #30 - September 05, 2011, 12:05 AM

Haha YES. Why??
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #31 - September 05, 2011, 04:45 AM

Saffire: I have no problem with people enjoying their money -- in fact I pity people who think being cheap is somehow going to save the world. What I have a problem with is people thinking money is what gives things/people value. It's saying shit like "It's not that I have a problem with people with less, it's that YOU have a problem with people who have more cos it makes you feel worthless" that I have a problem with.

You have the typical middle class mentality of "I made it all by myself, so fuck you." You're the worst kind of privileged person, the kind who's blind to their own privilege, the kind who thinks they're being nice when giving to the poor. I'm from a middle class family, I grew up around people like you.
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #32 - September 05, 2011, 04:51 AM

Quote from: Saffire on September 04, 2011, 08:33 PM
The reality is money provides assurance, not better. You can enjoy cheap, but there's no guarnatee. The only thing money provides is the right to be an asshole if things aren't right. Staying at a hostel can be fun, true, I love the idea. Reality- it can be dangerous and intrusive, as well as dirty and also lacking in certain provisions.

You assume I only think of money from such short statements? That's silly. I happen to enjoy many things that don't requrie money. I love to make things, I love to wals in parks etc, I love trees, I love to read, I love to talk and listen to new ideas, I love to experience life in all it';s bounty. Many of the greatest things are free so to speak, and I'm grateful for those, but there are some wonderful things that only money can provide, which I have yet to experience

I'm not a born rich person, I've only recently started to make money and I'm excited. Who wouldn't be! I've always wanted to LIVE and money offers me so many opportunities that I didn't have before. I want to travel, to go surfing in OZ, to visit awesome sites and engage in activities like bunjee and sky diving. I've always wanted to do these things and could never before afford it. Now that I can why is it that you seem to resent this? Why are you adamently forcing me to NOT enjoy money, to not enjoy the things money can offer. I've done the poor thing and had a wonderful time. I've had great fun staying in hostels also, living in india in a musaafar khana that hardly costs £2 a day, struggling to buy shopping so you really appreciate that one night out a month where you go out and get pissed, to engage in activities that don't require wealth, to love, laugh etc. I've done them and continue to do them. Just cos I want to spend money now that I have some doesn't mean all of a sudden I never go to Mcdonalds and only dine at the finest establishments, I never keep things simple (I really want to go camping/backpacking/etc), I never appreciate the simple things like a good book, my fave alcohol (fancy one) isn't suddenly champagnbe just cos I can afford it, I still prefer the £5 a bottle Martini Asti as a treat when I celebrate.

Do not presume to think who I am, I'm a complex person like any other

Fuck Trees.

And fuck the borgeousie!

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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #33 - September 05, 2011, 05:01 AM

Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on September 04, 2011, 11:18 PM
I prefer the idea of wiping out the bourgeoisie entirely and the workers having democratic control over the means of production and distribution. You may have escaped from your class and see individual achievement as the answer, but history shows that leaves billions behind in miserable conditions-- some of us have opted for class struggle instead. This is what you don't understand. The system that made you well-off grinds millions down every day, many of whom won't live long enough to even attempt to make it out.

I don't know which is funnier... Saffire and the smug self-satisfaction of the middle class... or Q-man's Che Guevara delusions...

You best be trollin.

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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #34 - September 05, 2011, 05:02 AM

Capitalism is the real troll.
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #35 - September 05, 2011, 05:03 AM

Meh. I live in a socialist paradise. What me worry.

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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #36 - September 05, 2011, 05:05 AM

Me too. I bow down to Comrade Harper* every day.

*Just typing that makes me want to barf.
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #37 - September 05, 2011, 07:59 AM

Wow. Maybe I am misreading the thread, but I don't honestly see how Saffire saying she finally has a little money coming in and can afford to stay someone nicer if she wants to means she is up herself about her money.

Call me clueless and give me coffee, then I will reread and try once again to see what all the fuss is about.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #38 - September 05, 2011, 08:02 AM

Will they be serving hors d'oeuvres on their tummies! ?

The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
-Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

"Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags." -Ibl
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #39 - September 05, 2011, 08:47 AM

I dont care if others have more stuff than me.

What i care is about the opportunity for everyone to make something with their lives...

Little Fly, Thy summer's play
My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

I too dance and drink, and sing,
Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

Therefore I am a happy fly,
If I live or if I die.
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #40 - September 05, 2011, 04:09 PM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on September 05, 2011, 12:04 AM
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait.

You have a bf Why didn't you say?

Quote from: Saffire on September 05, 2011, 12:05 AM
Haha YES. Why??

19:46 <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

Quote from: yeezevee
well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #41 - September 05, 2011, 04:21 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on September 05, 2011, 07:59 AM
Wow. Maybe I am misreading the thread, but I don't honestly see how Saffire saying she finally has a little money coming in and can afford to stay someone nicer if she wants to means she is up herself about her money.

Call me clueless and give me coffee, then I will reread and try once again to see what all the fuss is about.

It ain't about this thread. Honestly the only reason it made it into this thread is cause I was trolling Saffire to an extent. Shouldn't have done that.

Quote from: Jesus Christ on September 05, 2011, 05:01 AM
or Q-man's Che Guevara delusions...

How is stating the truth of capitalism and the necessity of class struggle a Che delusion? Class struggle takes many forms, it doesn't necessarily mean being an armed revolutionary or whatever.

fuck you
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #42 - September 05, 2011, 04:41 PM

Quote from: GodIsNotGreat on September 05, 2011, 04:09 PM

I joins you bratah.

07:54 <harakaat>: you must be jema
07:54 <harakaat>: considering how annoying you are
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #43 - September 05, 2011, 07:14 PM

Quote from: Abood on September 05, 2011, 04:45 AM
the kind who thinks they're being nice when giving to the poor.

I get your point about privilege, but I don't see what's wrong with feeling one is being nice when one gives to charity. Granted, I usually feel guilty as hell for being privileged + confused about whether I did a "good" thing or not (since I don't believe in free will), but I don't see what's wrong with people feeling self-satisfied when they're being altruistic

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #44 - September 05, 2011, 07:19 PM

^Do you feel like you've done your part after you give to charity?
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #45 - September 05, 2011, 07:21 PM

That's not what I meant. I meant that they think they're doing more than they need to do, like they have absolutely no obligation for the rest of society and everything they do is because they're just nice people.
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #46 - September 05, 2011, 07:23 PM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on September 05, 2011, 07:19 PM
^Do you feel like you've done your part after you give to charity?

Hmm. I don't know. It's like "I COULD'VE GIVEN MOAR!" and then it's like "I gave a lot."

I just try to stop thinking about it.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #47 - September 05, 2011, 07:24 PM

Quote from: harakaat on September 05, 2011, 07:23 PM
Hmm. I don't know. It's like "I COULD'VE GIVEN MOAR!" and then it's like "I gave a lot."

I just try to stop thinking about it.

About the issue or about how much you gave?
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #48 - September 05, 2011, 07:25 PM

Quote from: Abood on September 05, 2011, 07:21 PM
That's not what I meant. I meant that they think they're doing more than they need to do, like they have absolutely no obligation for the rest of society and everything they do is because they're just nice people.

Would you say that giving to charity is an obligation?

I think of it as neither an obligation nor a "good" deed. Just a choice, if that makes sense.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
- harakaat
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #49 - September 05, 2011, 07:26 PM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on September 05, 2011, 07:24 PM
About the issue or about how much you gave?

About the issue. I usually give a lot, so I don't worry too much about that, but it can keep nagging at me too.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #50 - September 05, 2011, 07:29 PM

The way I see it, liberal guilt is stupid. I didn't commit anything wrong by being born in a privileged family. But at the same time, we're all part of society and should play a role in alleviating suffering where possible. Being concerned about the well-being of others and somehow trying to alleviate suffering where possible, whether through giving or actively fighting for change -- that's not a nicety, it's a moral obligation.
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #51 - September 05, 2011, 07:31 PM

Quote from: harakaat on September 05, 2011, 07:26 PM
About the issue. I usually give a lot, so I don't worry too much about that, but it can keep nagging at me too.

And do you think you could do more to help alleviate the problem, donations apart?
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #52 - September 05, 2011, 07:32 PM

Quote from: Abood on September 05, 2011, 07:29 PM
The way I see it, liberal guilt is stupid. I didn't commit anything wrong by being born in a privileged family. But at the same time, we're all part of society and should play a role in alleviating suffering where possible. Being concerned about the well-being of others and somehow trying to alleviate suffering where possible, whether through giving or actively fighting for change -- that's not a nicety, it's a moral obligation.

Sure, but... it's often not a rational thing. Not for me, at least. It's an emotional thing I can't control, which is why I try not to think about it as much as possible.

Okay, so would you say that failing to give to charity is being immoral?

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #53 - September 05, 2011, 07:33 PM

Quote from: Prince Spinoza on September 05, 2011, 07:31 PM
And do you think you could do more to help alleviate the problem, donations apart?

I hope this is not going where I think it is going.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #54 - September 05, 2011, 07:34 PM

Where do you think it's going?
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #55 - September 05, 2011, 07:36 PM

Failing to give to charity in and of itself is not immoral, no. There are other ways to help society. To be honest I don't think charities are all that helpful, they're basically a band-aid solution. What's immoral is when people think they're individuals and have no obligation to society and don't do anything to try to make things better for anyone else.
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #56 - September 05, 2011, 07:40 PM

Quote from: Abood on September 05, 2011, 07:36 PM
Failing to give to charity in and of itself is not immoral, no. There are other ways to help society. To be honest I don't think charities are all that helpful, they're basically a band-aid solution. What's immoral is when people think they're individuals and have no obligation to society and don't do anything to try to make things better for anyone else.

Why is that immoral?

And Prince, fuck you! I know you're gonna take it to my (future, potential) private jet.

قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #57 - September 05, 2011, 07:43 PM

I wasn't gonna (but we could take it that way if you want to.)
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #58 - September 05, 2011, 07:44 PM

Quote from: harakaat on September 05, 2011, 07:40 PM
Why is that immoral?

What do you consider the point of morals?
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Re: World Atheist Convention 2012
Reply #59 - September 05, 2011, 07:45 PM

Because no one is privileged without society providing them the opportunities. When we take something, we have a duty to give back.
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