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Theme Changer

 Topic: Occupy Wall Street protests

 (Read 27041 times)
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  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #30 - September 25, 2011, 08:30 PM
    I think the problem tends to be a lack of class consciousness / awareness of what the people are up against. I knew that was the case in Egypt the moment they allowed the army to take over. Sure, having a leader would have helped in the short run, but if the people aren't class conscious enough that they need a vanguard, they're not class conscious enough to know when that vanguard is trying to push shit down their throats to secure power.
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #31 - September 25, 2011, 08:32 PM
    Yeah, but there were a number of strikes and the development of new labor unions that accompanied the Egyptian Revolution. There's never enough class consciousness-- that's the idea behind vanguardism, you have to make up for it with tight, disciplined organization.
    fuck you
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #32 - September 25, 2011, 08:38 PM
    NYC General Assembly

    Quote
    Who We Are

    New York City General Assemblies are an open, participatory and horizontally organized process through which we are building the capacity to constitute ourselves in public as autonomous collective forces within and against the constant crises of our times

    Please read the Principles of Solidarity working draft

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8zU4PHDZZ4
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #33 - September 25, 2011, 08:41 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on September 25, 2011, 08:32 PM
    Yeah, but there were a number of strikes and the development of new labor unions that accompanied the Egyptian Revolution. There's never enough class consciousness-- that's the idea behind vanguardism, you have to make up for it with tight, disciplined organization.

    I'm not getting into a debate of anarchism vs. Leninism. It suffices to say I recognize that vanguardism can be useful in the short run, but as I said can have detrimental effects in the long run.
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #34 - September 25, 2011, 08:57 PM
    Well yeah, that's the problem indeed. Leninism is a good way to seize state power but a poor way to actually build a socialist society. Problem is that the latter seems so damn far off that the Leninist model is tempting. I mean, how else would a revolutionary group seize control from all the competing conservative, reformist and reactionary groups seeking to take advantage of the situation? Are we just supposed to wait for the majority of society to become class-conscious and self-organize with the spines to back up their beliefs? Sorry if my view of humanity is not so optimistic and I'm not expecting a millenarianist transformation of society. I mean, fuck, even the militant elements within the CNT resorted to vanguardism when they formed the FAI to try to prevent reformists from taking control of the union-- fears that were eventually realized when the CNT joined the Republican government, proving to be a fatal mistake.
    fuck you
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #35 - September 25, 2011, 09:03 PM
    I don't see much wrong with an "ideological vanguard" to educate people and push for class consciousness -- and that's what the FAI was, at least initially. And if I'm not mistaken, that's something Bakunin himself called for. What I have a problem with is if that organization took power in the name of the people.
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #36 - September 25, 2011, 09:37 PM
    Yahoo Appears To Be Censoring Email Messages About Wall Street Protests
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #37 - September 25, 2011, 09:42 PM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rbXfelyIoM
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #38 - September 25, 2011, 09:48 PM
    Quote from: Abood on September 25, 2011, 09:37 PM
    Yahoo Appears To Be Censoring Email Messages About Wall Street Protests


    Not at all surprising.

    People who think they're living in a free country are in a fuckin dreamworld.
    fuck you
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #39 - September 25, 2011, 10:47 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on September 25, 2011, 07:18 PM
    Allat's closer to my age so I'm not sure what her excuse for being so fuckin optimistic is. Tongue


    I waffle between intolerable (to me) cynicism and intolerable (to others) optimism. Tongue Don't worry, I don't have much faith in humans either; part of the reason why I don't call myself a "humanist". People are capable of great things, of solidarity, awareness, and all that, and yet most of the time, most people will disappoint you in the end. Doesn't mean any of us can give up on them, because it's better to keep struggling against humanity's worst aspects than to give up due to the fact that humanity has some pretty awful shitty fucking aspects.

    As for political struggles and revolutions, they almost always get hijacked eventually, that doesn't mean that they are not needed. They are actually needed on a regular basis to stop any group of humans from becoming too powerful. Thus the problem with vanguard parties in post-revolution everywhere. Decentralised revolutions are messier and probably take longer to affect change, but they have strengths too.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #40 - September 25, 2011, 11:46 PM
    Quote from: allat on September 25, 2011, 10:47 PM
    As for political struggles and revolutions, they almost always get hijacked eventually, that doesn't mean that they are not needed. They are actually needed on a regular basis to stop any group of humans from becoming too powerful.


    You sound like Thomas Jefferson. Smiley
    fuck you
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #41 - September 26, 2011, 12:18 AM
    Umm, no she doesn't.
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #42 - September 26, 2011, 12:27 AM
    What the friggidy frickshizzles  finmad

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moD2JnGTToA&feature=related
    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #43 - September 26, 2011, 12:36 AM
    Quote from: olweasel on September 26, 2011, 12:18 AM
    Umm, no she doesn't.


    God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

    --Thomas Jefferson
    fuck you
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #44 - September 26, 2011, 05:00 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_7rZbVerlI
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #45 - September 26, 2011, 05:40 AM
    There is absolutely no reason for the existence of banks or bankers. It is a parasite upon civilization.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #46 - September 26, 2011, 05:42 AM
    Haha I'm guessin you^ rent too eh?

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #47 - September 26, 2011, 05:52 AM
    I'm not sure I know what you are trying to say   Huh?
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #48 - September 26, 2011, 06:01 AM
    No man I totally get what you're saying. Fuckin guys won't gimme a mortgage either because apparently my 'credit' is "bad". I was like take your ergonomics degree n shove it u banker fuck. haha.
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #49 - September 26, 2011, 08:11 AM
    Quote from: Jesus Christ on September 26, 2011, 06:01 AM
    No man I totally get what you're saying. Fuckin guys won't gimme a mortgage either because apparently my 'credit' is "bad". I was like take your ergonomics degree n shove it u banker fuck. haha.


    oh god, dying  Cheesy Cheesy
    <dust>: i love tea!!!
    <dust>: milky tea
    <three>: soooo gentle for my neck (from the inside)
    <dust>: mm
    <three>: it's definitely not called neck
    <dust>: lol
    <three>: what's the word i'm looking for
    <dust>: throat
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #50 - September 26, 2011, 04:47 PM
    Quote from: allat on September 26, 2011, 05:00 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_7rZbVerlI


    There's blood on the street
    And the smell is so sweet
    Cause another blue bastard has gone down
    See the boots swarming round his head
    They're gonna see him dead
    Nightstick in his hand
    He tried to rule this land
    But that's no way to make a country great
    It takes more, more than force
    You've got to give it a voice

    So it's goodnight to one more fascist clown
    We've got a riot
    You can't keep us quiet
    We've got a riot, we've got a riot
    This is our answer to your law

    Don't shed no tears for him
    His life was lived in sin
    No one has the right to order you
    Don't be told what life is about

    Brixton- riot riot
    Toxteth- riot riot
    Bristol- riot riot
    Moss Side- riot riot
    England- riot riot
    England- riot riot riot riot riot...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUb3CggTbLk
    fuck you
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #51 - September 27, 2011, 11:56 AM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8DGlAkYh10
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #52 - September 27, 2011, 01:36 PM
    Nice thread. From the horses mouth, yesterday on the BBC:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpg76VjTa58
    Each of us a failed state in stark relief against the backdrop of the perfect worlds we seek.
    Propagandhi - Failed States
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #53 - September 27, 2011, 03:10 PM
    Quote from: allat on September 25, 2011, 10:47 PM
    They are actually needed on a regular basis to stop any group of humans from becoming too powerful.


    Interesting.
    "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor E. Frankl

    'Life is just the extreme expression of complex chemistry' - Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #54 - September 27, 2011, 11:04 PM
    Quote
    Over 100 NYPD Officers Refuse to Work in Support of Occupy Wall Street Movement

    In a bizarre twist of fate, a growing movement of New York City Police Department officers are banding together with the Occupy Wall Street movement, while the main stream media continues to ignore this escalating event.

    The Occupy Wall Street movement issued the following statement on their website:
    "Today we received unconfirmed reports that over one hundred blue collar police refused to come into work in solidarity with our movement. These numbers will grow. We are the 99 percent. You will not silence us."

    http://www.in5d.com/over-100-nypd-officers-refuse-to-work-in-support-of-occupy-wall-street.html
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #55 - September 27, 2011, 11:06 PM
    My friend who was in Wisconsin for the occupation of the state house said hundreds of state police who were supposed to evict them sat in instead.
    fuck you
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #56 - September 27, 2011, 11:09 PM
    Yeh, I heard of that. I don't think it's surprising, cops are part of the working class.
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #57 - September 27, 2011, 11:10 PM
    They aren't part of the working class as adjuncts to the state and enforcers of capital, however many do come from working-class backgrounds and share a labor union consciousness.
    fuck you
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #58 - September 27, 2011, 11:54 PM
    Quote
    #TwitterCensorship Blocks #OccupyWallStreet from Top Trending Topic Twice

    On at least two occasions, Saturday September 17th and again on Thursday night, Twitter blocked #OccupyWallStreet from being featured as a top trending topic on their homepage. On both occasions, #OccupyWallStreet tweets were coming in more frequently than other top trending topics that they were featuring on their homepage.

    This is blatant political censorship on the part of a company that has recently received a $400 million investment from JP Morgan Chase.

    http://thedailyattack.com/2011/09/24/twittercensorship-blocks-occupywallstreet-from-top-trending-topic-twice/
  • Re: Occupy Wall Street protests
     Reply #59 - September 28, 2011, 12:06 AM
    Quote from: z10 on September 26, 2011, 05:40 AM
    There is absolutely no reason for the existence of banks or bankers. It is a parasite upon civilization.

    no.
    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
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