Scientism

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Scientism
OP - October 05, 2011, 10:00 PM

Quote
Unlike the use of the scientific method as only one mode of reaching knowledge, scientism claims that science alone can render truth about the world and reality. Scientism's single-minded adherence to only the empirical, or testable, makes it a strictly scientifc worldview, in much the same way that a Protestant fundamentalism that rejects science can be seen as a strictly religious worldview. Scientism sees it necessary to do away with most, if not all, metaphysical, philosophical, and religious claims, as the truths they proclaim cannot be apprehended by the scientific method. In essence, scientism sees science as the absolute and only justifiable access to the truth.

http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/gengloss/sciism-body.html
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Re: Scientism
Reply #1 - October 05, 2011, 10:15 PM

That's because you can't make shit up in science!
Philosophy and religion are only a human method of determining how to perceive the world and how to live in it. It is all based solely on our minds. I'm not saying they're bad, but they should not hold any place in the "truth department"

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Re: Scientism
Reply #2 - October 05, 2011, 10:23 PM

Science is not the natural, objective world. Science is the interpretation by human beings of what appears to be "the natural world". In those vast and varying interpretations there have been, more than a few times, flaws, errors, political agendae and manipulation or ignorance of data. Science promoted racist ideas of the inferiority of black people's brains, and perfected techniques for lobotomizing rebellious women and electrocuting homosexuals at various times in history.

To say that science exists outside human social existence is ignorance of the history and development and internal critiques of science.

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Re: Scientism
Reply #3 - October 05, 2011, 10:23 PM

Quote from: Abood on October 05, 2011, 10:00 PM
http://www.pbs.org/faithandreason/gengloss/sciism-body.html

Attempting to discover universal truth using power of thought alone is an arrogant enterprise. Not only it is arrogant it is also a bonkers approach! And it has also failed us miserably for so long!

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My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

I too dance and drink, and sing,
Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

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Re: Scientism
Reply #4 - October 05, 2011, 10:24 PM

A good scientist is humble about science. It's only those who wish to replace other dogmas, gods and authoritarian figures with "science", that see science as infallible and beyond critique.

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Re: Scientism
Reply #5 - October 05, 2011, 10:26 PM

ive had enough of isms to be honest...

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Re: Scientism
Reply #6 - October 05, 2011, 10:27 PM

Scientists have time to think up this shit?

They're supposed to be slaving 24/7 over a new, less dense seat cushion material for my ass.

BRB...

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Re: Scientism
Reply #7 - October 05, 2011, 10:30 PM

A good scientist is a passionate skeptic. That is why science works.

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My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

I too dance and drink, and sing,
Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

Therefore I am a happy fly,
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Re: Scientism
Reply #8 - October 05, 2011, 11:09 PM

Quote from: MoeAlharbi on October 05, 2011, 10:15 PM
That's because you can't make shit up in science!
Philosophy and religion are only a human method of determining how to perceive the world and how to live in it. It is all based solely on our minds. I'm not saying they're bad, but they should not hold any place in the "truth department"

I'd like to see how far science would get without the aid of logic, mathematics and rationality, all of which exist solely in our minds.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: Scientism
Reply #9 - October 05, 2011, 11:20 PM

Quote from: MoeAlharbi on October 05, 2011, 10:15 PM
That's because you can't make shit up in science!
Philosophy and religion are only a human method of determining how to perceive the world and how to live in it. It is all based solely on our minds. I'm not saying they're bad, but they should not hold any place in the "truth department"

And science is not based solely on our minds? Even if the things we perceive in science actually do exist -- which itself is a very contested notion, this Kantian "thing in-itself" that exists objectively in the outside world; but even if we took that as a given for the sake of argument, is it still not true that our experience of such a thing is a result of our interaction with it? How can you possibly argue that science is the truth and only truth unless you believe your experience of the world is objective?

You can't "make shit up" in science, but neither can you remove your subjectivities from the way you perceive your environment. There are many things that influence the way we see the world, and those things are inherent within us; they make a part of who we are. Unless you can remove yourself from your place in the world, you cannot possibly be objective -- and not only is that impossible, but not even desirable.

Science is a human, historical method that developed during the Enlightenment.
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Re: Scientism
Reply #10 - October 06, 2011, 09:09 PM

Quote from: z10 on October 05, 2011, 11:09 PM
I'd like to see how far science would get without the aid of logic, mathematics and rationality, all of which exist solely in our minds.

But science tell us our everyday logic and rationality does not apply to the quantum world.

Mathematics itself did not discover gravity. It is tool to model reality but does not represent reality as such.

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My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

I too dance and drink, and sing,
Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

Therefore I am a happy fly,
If I live or if I die.
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Re: Scientism
Reply #11 - October 06, 2011, 09:17 PM

Quote from: z10 on October 05, 2011, 11:09 PM
I'd like to see how far science would get without the aid of logic, mathematics and rationality, all of which exist solely in our minds.

Mathematics certainly seems to have a remarkable ability to model reality. It's a little hard to explain this if you also wish to insist that mathematics exists solely in our minds.

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Re: Scientism
Reply #12 - October 07, 2011, 12:32 AM

Quote from: osmanthus on October 06, 2011, 09:17 PM
Mathematics certainly seems to have a remarkable ability to model reality. It's a little hard to explain this if you also wish to insist that mathematics exists solely in our minds.

That's true. However, this problem can easily be solved even if scientism won't agree. Our minds exist in reality, so even if mathematics exists only in our mind, it still exists in reality. The problem starts when there is an insistence on not allowing anything from the mind to "contaminate" the scientific paradigm. As if our minds, the very thing we are, is the one thing that should be kept away from all theorising.
This stems from the engraved idea that the mind, being subjective, is prima facie excluded from any discussion of truth and reality. Getting away from that will solve this dilemma of understanding the place of logic and maths in the world.

At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
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Re: Scientism
Reply #13 - October 07, 2011, 01:08 AM

The mind–objective world duality is incorrect, and that's where the fallacy is. Our minds not only exist in the world, but our very consciousness arises out of us being in the world. The mind is not a thing-in-itself, it's a relation between us and our environment.
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