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Theme Changer

 Topic: Big Bang Theory questions

 (Read 4160 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Big Bang Theory questions
     OP - October 06, 2011, 03:09 AM

    Continuing from another thread

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCkADmNdNo

    The below article goes through a number of arguments against the big bang.

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/bang.php

    Prior to reading the webpage, I was almost comfortable with the big bang theory. As my understand of the topic is basic at best, I cannot filter the arguments. I have tried to find a rebuttal of the article (via google) but came across nothing, so I hope a discussion might make things clearer.

    If you feel there is no discussion warranted, based around the points raised in the webpage, then please say why.

    n = 0 : n + [1,1,1...]
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #1 - October 06, 2011, 03:20 AM

    It's funny sometimes I guess

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #2 - October 06, 2011, 03:23 AM

    It's funny sometimes I guess


    Why don't you ask your dad?

    but seriously I don't understand you post.

    n = 0 : n + [1,1,1...]
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #3 - October 06, 2011, 03:25 AM

    I laugh sometimes. Not like "haha" funny, more like a giggle. The whole angle with the east indian guy not talkin to chicks is pretty hilarious I must admit.

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #4 - October 06, 2011, 03:28 AM

    I laugh sometimes. Not like "haha" funny, more like a giggle. The whole angle with the east indian guy not talkin to chicks is pretty hilarious I must admit.


    First Wikipedia, and now you. FML.

    n = 0 : n + [1,1,1...]
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #5 - October 06, 2011, 03:31 AM

     Cheesy

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #6 - October 06, 2011, 03:31 AM

    im sorry lol

    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #7 - October 06, 2011, 03:35 AM

    Suggestion: avoid crackpot sites and read some science.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #8 - October 06, 2011, 03:48 AM

    Those are impressive arguments. While it is difficult to speak about the exact workings of the big bang without a sound mathematical knowledge, it is true that these difficulties are under-represented in academic literature. I have only read one journal article by a group of scientists that question the veracity of the big bang narrative.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #9 - October 06, 2011, 03:49 AM

    Suggestion: avoid crackpot sites and read some science.


    Did you read the whole thing os? No other comment?

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #10 - October 06, 2011, 03:54 AM

    No. Not at the moment.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #11 - October 06, 2011, 04:10 AM

    I think it's a very interesting take. It's quite sensationalist in its insistence on saying that modern scientists are just priests, but there's nothing wrong with being healthily sceptical about theoretic work and he does raise interesting counter-arguments to many claims of the big bang.
    For a start, it is definately the case that the vast difference in the figures for the horizon of the big bang is a difficulty. It is openly discussed as the Horizon Problem in the literature. While I think there are a number of proposed mathematical solutions to the problem, it's a valid question to ask why our physical laws are suspended without independent reasons and shouldn't be immediately dismissed as a 'crackpot' theory. I don't pretend to have any answers here but let's hear the question

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #12 - October 06, 2011, 04:59 AM

    some people need to lay down on the pot.
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #13 - October 06, 2011, 10:13 PM

    I haven't seen such a great refuation. Indeed this blows a big hole in the big bang theory




    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #14 - October 06, 2011, 10:29 PM

     Smiley




    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #15 - October 07, 2011, 11:50 PM

    Big Bang is not a Sacred Cow in Science!

    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #16 - October 08, 2011, 12:34 AM

    The author of the article sounds like a bit of a douche, and someone with his own biases, particularly against the idea of a cosmic beginning. And I'd wager that the establishment in physics is probably more secular than religious, but there are always more questions to be asked, and nothing is ever as simple as it seems.
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #17 - October 08, 2011, 12:41 AM

    Aside from that though, how would a person advancing an eternal universe get round the idea of a paradox created by an infinite quantity of past events?
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #18 - October 08, 2011, 12:46 AM

    Easy: nothing happened. It was really boring back then. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #19 - October 08, 2011, 12:51 AM

    Aside from that though, how would a person advancing an eternal universe get round the idea of a paradox created by an infinite quantity of past events?


    This always slightly off to me.  Given that time should be the same backwards and forwards I found it slightly suspicious that a paradox is always postulated when going in reverse, but not forward.  To me that signifies that the paradox is a cognitive issue with our minds always placing causes before effects temporally.  I don't dismiss it, but I don't think it is ironclad.   

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #20 - October 08, 2011, 12:55 AM

    This always slightly off to me.  Given that time should be the same backwards and forwards I found it slightly suspicious that a paradox is always postulated when going in reverse, but not forward.  To me that signifies that the paradox is a cognitive issue with our minds always placing causes before effects temporally.  I don't dismiss it, but I don't think it is ironclad.   


    Because forward is a potential infinite, not a real, existing one, unlike what would be the case in a past-infinite universe.
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #21 - October 08, 2011, 01:01 AM

    That still seems to be an cognitive error based on causation.  If we pick any arbitrary point then we are always stuck with an potential and an actual infinite regardless of the reality of the situation.  The choosing of our  point of reference seems to be the sticking point and not that an actual or possible infinite exists. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #22 - October 08, 2011, 01:24 AM

    There's a clear difference, as far as I can see, in that the past events have actually happened, and thus can constitute an actual series of infinite events, whereas those events that will happen in the future have not happened, and can never accumulate to the point of infinity.

    But the whole reason behind an infinity is that there is no specific point at which it begins or ends, and so the notion is that since there is an infinity before us, we could never have come into being, because that point at which we begin to exist is at the edge of that infinity, and thus that 'infinity' must have a temporal end, but a finite infinity is of course, an absurdity. And so, there can't be an infinity before we came into being, because if that were the case then we could never have reached the point at which we begin to exist.
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #23 - October 08, 2011, 01:37 AM

    I think this whole infinity thing is more a limitation of our brains than a fundamental limitation of the universe (and whatever is "outside" it).

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #24 - October 08, 2011, 01:48 AM

    Again the sticking point is the frame of reference and not the actual timeline itself. Past events that have actually happen completely depends on the point of reference and possible future events completely depend on the point of view it.  Move that POV and magically the possible future becomes the past and the past becomes the possible future.  In my opinion it has more to do with how we conceptualize causation with past/present/future events than an objective beginning.  But again this is my opinion. 

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #25 - October 08, 2011, 07:10 AM

    Anyone impressed with the article in the OP may care to read this: http://talkrational.org/showthread.php?t=43541

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #26 - October 08, 2011, 10:33 AM

    Just incase someone is wondring.my post was sarcastic. I treated it more of a joke then a refuation.

    The author is quite arrogant and doesn't really understand cosmology.

    The horizan problem is solved by alan guth's inflation modle.

    I was acctuly having a chat about it with one of my friends who is an astro-physicist and this is what she had to say.

    Quote
    "In other words, for this galaxy to lie 13 billion light-years away from Earth only 750 million years after the Big Bang, it would have had to travel 13 billion light years in just 750 million years' time. That requires the galaxy in question to travel more than 17 times faster than the speed of light, a speed limit which according to the Big Bang supporters was in effect from the moment the universe was 3 seconds old."

    He has no idea about how a light year is used. In reality it is the light travel time from an object. When an object is said to be 13 billion light years away, that is how long the light has taken to reach Earth, not it's true distance which the case of such an object would have it at about 39 billion lights years away in distance today. When you see an object in space you are seeing at it was how ever many years ago, in the place it was that many years ago. It also produces some very strange paradoxes, take Betelgeuse, beta-orionis, its about 450 light years away, and if it has gone nova, say 150 years ago, it'll be another 300 years till we know. So therefore we're looking at a star that no longer exists.

    There are two things to realise about the universe. First there is what is known as the, observable universe, and the true universe. The observable universe is pretty self explanatory, it contains everything within the universe that we can see and extends out to about 13.75 billion light years, the age of the universe. The true size of the universe is about 3 times the size of the observable universe, (3 x 13.75 = 41.25 (+2 to 3%)) The cosmological horizon is at about 43 billion light years beyond which we will never be able to see directly.

    As for his comments on the CMB, that just shows he knows nothing about it. Even though it looks very variable, there is not that much difference overall between two points on it. Overall there is a 0.25K difference between the hottest part and the coolest part.





    Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home. [carl sagan]
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #27 - October 09, 2011, 05:36 AM

    That topic over at Talkrats had a few professionals weighing in too. I asked if they had some links available for laypeople who wished to gain a basic understanding of this stuff.

    Quote from: Jet Black
    I think the biggest problem is that these sorts of people are working from written and spoken lay-descriptions of the Big Bang, which almost inevitably involve analogy or use of language which can easily be misinterpreted; they don't understand the mathematics of it at all and how that fits with the physical observations.


    Quote from: TestyCalibrate
    Warning, I found this site while searching for wingnuts. However, they are not wingnuts to an appreciable degree and have excellent information, clear markers where the hypotheticals start and links to the standard model in all kinds of detail.

    http://www.ws5.com/spacetime/

     

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #28 - October 09, 2011, 06:13 AM

    Quote
    Problem over at CEMB is we have philosophy students who think they are able to opine on science. They're very clever with words, and are under the impression that this means something in any field they care to take on.

      Afro

    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
  • Re: Big Bang Theory questions
     Reply #29 - October 09, 2011, 11:57 PM

    Anyone impressed with the article in the OP may care to read this: http://talkrational.org/showthread.php?t=43541


    This really helped, thanks  Afro

    n = 0 : n + [1,1,1...]
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »