Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam

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- David
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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #30 - October 24, 2011, 04:37 PM

Quote from: Abood on October 24, 2011, 03:19 PM
drop their upbringing whole and assimilate into the western, dominant culture

You talk as if 'Western culture' is monolithic and unchanging.

It isn't.

Those who assimilate broaden and enrich it.
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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #31 - October 24, 2011, 04:41 PM

you do not bring in your own cultural experience if you assimilate into a culture that's intolerant of difference. that's why some societies, eg quebec, have adopted a policy of interculturalism. it's a demand for immigrants to integrate as long as their cultures are accepted into the dominant culture. most societies don't do that, they just force the immigrants to accept the dominant culture or be marginalized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interculturalism
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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #32 - October 24, 2011, 04:46 PM

Muslims care deeply for their parents and grandparents-- love, respect, honor and cherish them. Ex-Muslims chain them in the basement, feed them gruel and give them brutal beatings on a regular basis.

Quote from: Naerys on October 21, 2011, 09:32 AM
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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #33 - October 24, 2011, 05:04 PM

I get what you are saying Abood however:

Quote from: Abood on October 24, 2011, 03:01 PM
yes, i know what you were saying. but it's very ironic that people are willing to point out that using the term "white culture" is essentialist, yet completely ignoring doing the same for "arab" and "muslim" culture. in your criticism of my supposed essentialism you've asserted another essentialism, that of the Other. the Other is always seen as a group, whereas the dominant is an individual.

If this is directed at me then it a strawman; I try and be careful not to do the thing you described above. Usually I use terms like 'literalistic Islam' to convey that I am criticizing the more unpalatable versions of Islam or particular aspects of them and not Islam as such.

Quote from: Abood on October 24, 2011, 03:01 PM
i'm very much a post-structuralist and anti-essentialist, which is precisely why i believe in a mix of different cultures, rather than having them as existing in a mutually exclusive dichotomy. when i say "replace" i mean dropping one culture entirely and taking up another as a whole. doing that is reinforcing essentialism.

Agreed, however my particular cultural identity is my own (half Weeaboo, half Klingon) and I try and assimilate into it aspects from various different cultures/thoughts that appeal to me.

Quote from: Abood on October 24, 2011, 03:19 PM
it's as if islam is satan manifest and you want nothing to do with it. if you grew up a muslim, you will always retain a part of islamic culture within you, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. live with it.

My idiosyncratic Islam never compromised any of my core beliefs based on the egalitarian legacy of French revolution/Kantian subjectivity. It doesn't say Ex-Muslim on top of my avatar does it?
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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #34 - October 24, 2011, 05:07 PM

Quote from: Abood on October 24, 2011, 04:41 PM
you do not bring in your own cultural experience if you assimilate into a culture that's intolerant of difference. that's why some societies, eg quebec, have adopted a policy of interculturalism. it's a demand for immigrants to integrate as long as their cultures are accepted into the dominant culture. most societies don't do that, they just force the immigrants to accept the dominant culture or be marginalized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interculturalism

I'm not talking theory or social engineering.

I'm talking about the way humans of different backgrounds naturally merge into one another and enrich one another without losing the essence of what they are.

It's an organic process not a political project.
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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #35 - October 24, 2011, 05:08 PM

Quote from: asbdsp on October 21, 2011, 01:02 AM
How many of you are/were willing to care for your parents/grandparents etc. in their old age?

I am - and I am.
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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #36 - October 24, 2011, 05:09 PM

Quote from: Aphrodite on October 24, 2011, 01:26 PM

Yes, I know a lot of desis who would just love to shove their elderly parents into care homes but don't because they don't want their 'honour' amongst the society ruined or whatever. Some may do it for the right reasons, I was just saying some don't.

Yeah, I understand that - It's not something that is specific to desis either.
All I was trying to say that morality cannot be experienced as a result of coercion - be it divinely mandated or based on tradition.

Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on October 24, 2011, 04:46 PM
Muslims care deeply for their parents and grandparents-- love, respect, honor and cherish them. Ex-Muslims chain them in the basement, feed them gruel and give them brutal beatings on a regular basis.

Yes. And when they die the parents' corpses are sold as dog food.
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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #37 - October 24, 2011, 10:36 PM

Quote
Not exactly an example of a moral conduct, is it? Doing something because one is scared of brutal reprisals from the chief psychopath.
This is the very definition of a behaviour that is anything but intrinsically moral.

Re - Muslims wanting extra points for caring for the elderly. Not sure if this works but i will have a go.

Some men beat up wives/partners(and the other way round) whether they are non-muslims or muslims but muslims get black marks for perhaps following their Islamic scriptures in doing so

likewise some non-muslims and muslims look after their elderly but shouldn't muslims get brownie points for having Islamic scriptures that stipulate and reward this care?

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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #38 - October 24, 2011, 10:42 PM

When I'm older and tell my parents that I'm an atheist, and they agree to not try to convert me or impose their religion on me. After that they agree of my future career choice (I want to be a writer but they insist that I become an engineer) and let me live my life then I probably would be fine living with them. But all of that seems really unlikely.

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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #39 - October 27, 2011, 03:04 AM

Quote from: Radon on October 24, 2011, 10:42 PM
When I'm older and tell my parents that I'm an atheist, and they agree to not try to convert me or impose their religion on me. After that they agree of my future career choice (I want to be a writer but they insist that I become an engineer) and let me live my life then I probably would be fine living with them. But all of that seems really unlikely.

Not going to comment on any of the other aspects but this makes me wonder. Have they tied you to a radiator, taped your eyelids open, and then forced you to read pages from "Thermodynamics: An Engineering Approach" using an overhead projector? If not then I'd suggest you grow a spine instead of refusing to take personal responsibility for your career decisions.

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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #40 - October 27, 2011, 09:19 AM

I think thats a bit harsh mate. You don't know the circumstances of his relationship with his family.

Radon, you can still become a writer whilst pursuing another practical career. Its all life experience anyway, which is what being a writer is all about.

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Re: Treatment of Parents/Elders before and after Islam
Reply #41 - October 27, 2011, 10:20 AM

Quote from: David on October 24, 2011, 05:07 PM
I'm not talking theory or social engineering.

I'm talking about the way humans of different backgrounds naturally merge into one another and enrich one another without losing the essence of what they are.

It's an organic process not a political project.

Yep! that would be great! But a very important prerequisite is tolerance without patronization.

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
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