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Theme Changer

 Topic: Tunisia

 (Read 7770 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Tunisia
     OP - October 25, 2011, 03:50 PM
    For a number of years now western wishful thinkers - usually of a liberal/left persuasion - have sought to convince themselves and the rest of us of a supposed distinction between the beliefs and practices of a supposedly "vast majority" of "moderate Muslims" and those of so-called "extremists" who openly advocate sharia as the ideal system of law and government for the entire world and violence as a means to achieve it. The latter has generally been termed "Islamism" as distinct from the plain "Islam" of the former.

    How puzzling then it must have been for them that, given the first chance of a genuinely free and fair election in decades, Tunisia's "moderate" Muslim population should vote for an "Islamist" party. How could "moderates" vote for "extremists"? Could it be that most Tunisians are not as "moderate" in their outlook as our western pundits assumed? Or even that the distinction between "Islam" and "IslamISM" is spurious?

    Not a bit of it. Like relgious people faced with incontovertible evidence of the falsity of their cherished doctrines they cast desperately around for other explanations and have found it in the shape of
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #1 - October 25, 2011, 03:51 PM
    wait for it..... parrot
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #2 - October 25, 2011, 03:52 PM
    THE "MODERATE ISLAMIST"
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #3 - October 25, 2011, 04:02 PM
    Put another way, a word that has hitherto been a byword for "extremism" has now, just like "plain" Islam, become imbued with all kinds of "nuances". Expect a slew of articles explaining to us that "IslamISM is not monolithic" and "there are as many Islamisms as there are Islamists" who are each in their own way seeking to reconcile Islamism with modernity.

    Perhaps our friend Hassan will write one!
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #4 - October 25, 2011, 04:47 PM
    1. The "vast majority" of Muslims are like the "vast majority" of other people, and aren't particularly concerned about politics, are mostly ignorant of it, and just focus on work and their personal lives and that of their families. This isn't rocket science, DH. While many Muslims may have a totalitarian ideology most don't act on it in any meaningful way and most don't even necessarily think about it that much, just go through the motions of salat, jummah, whatever.

    2. Those who vote are taking a political stand, although not everyone votes. And yes, those who are religious are much more inclined to vote for religious nutters. Happens in my country too, and I'm absolutely appalled at the kind of nuts religious folk vote into office here, sometimes by very wide majorities in places like the South and lower Midwest. However, this is not reason for me to be prejudiced against, say, every Southerner who identifies as Christian, nor is it reason for me to advocate for state restrictions on/discrimination against Christians to protect our country from "creeping Dominionism"

    3. Islamism isn't monolithic. No political ideology is. Islamists have sectarian fights as much as any other ideology does. All Islamist organizations/ideologies suck, but some suck worse than others (e.g. Hamas sucks but they're fuckin pillars of reason next to some of the Al-Qaeda inspired Islamist groups in Gaza).
    fuck you
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #5 - October 25, 2011, 04:52 PM
    Very good points, Q-Man.

    DH's weren't bad either.


    Now will you please go and have a beer or two together.
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #6 - October 25, 2011, 04:56 PM
     Cheesy You a funny man, David.
    fuck you
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #7 - October 25, 2011, 04:59 PM
    @^Q-man. So you believe "moderate IslamISM" is a meaningful term?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #8 - October 25, 2011, 05:04 PM
    It could be if judged purely relative to other strains of Islamism, though I might choose another term as "moderate Islamism" might give the impression it's moderate per se, which of course it isn't. But it's not a big deal to me because I've never considered "moderation" to be a virtue in and of itself, only within certain contexts. I'm not a Barry Goldwater fan by any means but his statement that "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" rings true to me.
    fuck you
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #9 - October 26, 2011, 12:13 AM
    The Ennahda party needs to form a coalition and is already trying to do so with SECULARISTS--how fucking extremist of them! That would be rejected by salafi type Islamic parties (they don't believe in democracy to begin with) because they'd say its mixing Islam and kufr (coalition with secularists) together. There are far more radical groups in Tunisia who have some support but not enough to create their Islamic state.
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #10 - October 26, 2011, 12:37 AM
    Watched the excerpt on the BBC news today, it appears this party is the cuddly toy bear of 'Islamist' parties. Fingers crossed.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #11 - October 26, 2011, 05:18 AM
    Quote from: Aphrodite
    The Ennahda party needs to form a coalition and is already trying to do so with SECULARISTS--how fucking extremist of them!


    If I understand your "reasoning" it follows:

    Hitler joined a "democratic coalition" as a stepping stone to absolute power. Therefore at the time of the coalition Hitler and his Nazi Party were moderates?

    Or am I missing something? (and don't say a brain or any other body part).
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #12 - October 26, 2011, 08:06 AM
    Quote from: DH on October 26, 2011, 05:18 AM


    Or am I missing something? (and don't say a brain or any other body part).


    Lmao you have everything covered here!


    The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
                                   Thomas Paine

    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored !- Aldous Huxley
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #13 - October 26, 2011, 10:17 AM
    Quote
    Quote from: DH on October 25, 2011, 03:52 PM
    THE "MODERATE ISLAMIST"

    Quote from: DH on October 25, 2011, 04:02 PM

    Perhaps our friend Hassan will write one!


    What is that you want from Hassan DH??  Everyone has some limitations and within his limits Hassan  has done much more than any Ex-Muslim  or Anti-Islamic/Anti Muslim heroes like you ever done to educate people(Muslims & Non_Muslims) about Islam and Muslims.

    You are acting like this naughty little girl



    Your father should have chained  you up so that you would have learned not to act naughty...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #14 - October 26, 2011, 12:01 PM

    Good luck to the Tunisians. The secularists will have to be alert to the closing of the secular space in civil society and on a political level now.
    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #15 - October 26, 2011, 02:46 PM
    Quote from: DH on October 26, 2011, 05:18 AM
    Hitler joined a "democratic coalition" as a stepping stone to absolute power. Therefore at the time of the coalition Hitler and his Nazi Party were moderates?

    Partly true. The Nazis were rather open about their goal, only the majority of Germans didn't believe that.

    Let's hope the best for Tunesia....
    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #16 - October 26, 2011, 11:40 PM
    Quote from: DH on October 26, 2011, 05:18 AM
    Hitler joined a "democratic coalition" as a stepping stone to absolute power.


    I'm not aware the NSDAP ever ruled as part of a coalition government or that they were otherwise members of a "democratic coalition" at any point.
    fuck you
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #17 - October 28, 2011, 05:46 AM
    MORE
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #18 - October 28, 2011, 11:35 PM
    Are you surprised?  If the majority voted for this party then that's what the majority want. What of it?  Huh?
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #19 - October 29, 2011, 12:07 AM
    Quote from: Maya on October 28, 2011, 11:35 PM
    What of it?  Huh?


    All Muslims are evil and/or dangerous and that justifies state discrimination against them. Duh.
    fuck you
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #20 - October 29, 2011, 05:35 PM
    LOL. What I can't understand is why so many non-muslims always seem to think that because the muslim people revolted it had to be because of Islam and the only way forward for these countries must be to ditch it completely.    wacko
    "The greatest general is not the one who can take the most cities or spill the most blood. The greatest general is the one who can take Heaven and Earth without waging the battle." ~ Sun Tzu

  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #21 - October 29, 2011, 06:05 PM
    Okay, what do you know about Ennahda? Nothing, evidently.

    1) Ennahda has pledged to retain their Secular Democracy.

    2) They will not stop tourists wearing bikinis.

    3) They will not halt the consumption of Alcohol.

    4) They will not force women to wear headscarves.

    5) They have pledged not to set up an Islamist state and to respect multi-party democracy.

    6) They will not impose Islamic banking.

    7) The biggest secular party, Congress for the Republic (CPR) defended Ennahda and said "One must not take them for the Taliban of Tunisia. It is a moderate part of Islam,"

    Tunisia is FREE with a Secular Democracy. I have no complaints with the way the Jasmine revolution turned out; I applaud the Tunisians and hope it is emulated throughout the Arab world.
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #22 - November 01, 2011, 01:35 PM
    What i don't understand, is why ennahda considered an islamic party at all, if they wont enforce an alcohol ban or will not force women to wear headscarves etc... i hope this is all true, but it smells fishy.  only time will tell for sure, i suppose.
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #23 - November 01, 2011, 02:33 PM
    Is k-man like Q-man's little brother or somethin?
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #24 - November 01, 2011, 04:19 PM
    Quote from: DH on October 25, 2011, 04:02 PM
    Expect a slew of articles explaining to us that "IslamISM is not monolithic"


    Actually, google those very words and you'll see that it's already been done some years back.

    Now, when someone states "ISLAM is not monolithic" they clearly intend that the reader/viewer/listener draws some (invariably unstated) conclusion from this "fact". So any ideas as to what conclusion we should draw?
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #25 - November 02, 2011, 06:41 AM
    Quote from: Maya on October 28, 2011, 11:35 PM
    Are you surprised?  If the majority voted for this party then that's what the majority want. What of it?  Huh?


    RELATED ARTICLE
    The mosque: the most epic display of collective douchbaggery, arrogance and delusion
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #26 - November 02, 2011, 11:39 PM
    I was saddened by the election news from Tunisia.
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #27 - November 02, 2011, 11:42 PM
    IA!!!
    Formerly known as Iblis
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #28 - November 02, 2011, 11:48 PM
    Why? The elections were fair, and a great majority of Tunesians voted. How can one be sad? This is called Democracy!
    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Tunisia
     Reply #29 - November 03, 2011, 09:24 PM
    Quote from: Hallakuf on November 02, 2011, 11:48 PM
    Why? The elections were fair, and a great majority of Tunesians voted. How can one be sad? This is called Democracy!

    The Nazis won fair elections too, so what's your point?
    The elections in Iraq were free and fair as well but religious parties won. Should I be happy about it?!

    I'm not saying democracy is bad. But the fact that even in the relatively liberal Tunisia the Islamists won is not a good sign. Tunisia, along with Turkey are now both ruled by religious parties despite being two of the least conservative Muslim countries.
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »