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Theme Changer

 Topic: question about evolution

 (Read 9667 times)
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  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #30 - October 26, 2011, 02:38 PM

    Even more interesting fact: gibbons are not monkeys. They are apes.

    Really fucking awesome fact: some other apes walk on two legs too. Wink


    Lol - last night i thought I would come back and change it to apes because that makes it a greater fact - pray tell me what other apes walk on two legs bar humans? In fact i should have said what only other primates  than humans walk?

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #31 - October 26, 2011, 02:53 PM

    Kartoos

    For your questions please watch Origins of Us - can be found I suppose on bbc iplayer.

    It's in three parts, the first was Bones (on two mondays ago on BBC2) , the second Guts (last monday) and the third will be entitled Brains.

    Bones was good - it is easy to follow and explains how certain apes changed from being adopted to climb on trees to eventually walking upright - the lovely scientist whose name escapes me now shows using simple logic and bones how our ankles and legs changed and why - why humans have strong buttocks, thin waists, why we lost our fur(we arent exactly hairless), how are ankles adopted (using simple measuring of bone joints), how the change to walk freed our hands and how our thumb developed to hold tools better than any other ape- It is really worth watching, and as long as you have logic, you can't help but understand.

    The second was Guts, I found this a bit boring because I knew most of the stuff and was preoccupied - but basically how adaptations occured to our nearer ancestors to enable them to eat a varied diet - but most importantly, how much energy we saved by learning how to control fire and thereby cooking our foods - all foods

    the energy saved from having to digest raw food (versus cooked food) enabled us to take energy away from our guts to develop our brains.

    This was not on the programme - my own theory as to how early apeman came across cooked food and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread - imagine the difference between raw meat and burgers lol. Basically i think forest fires occured leaving dead animals that our ancestors came across already barbecued and thought me wants some more of that.

    The third one will be brains - think language may come into play - I would imagine that some mutation may have made an individual have more rhythm in their grunts - perhaps similar to how some humans talk to animals i.e shepards etc with a few clicks, i hpe you know what i mean

    imagine a female who could do this- she would be the madonna/lady gaga of her time - would have been sought out and the rest is history.

    Do watch it - origins of Us.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #32 - October 26, 2011, 06:07 PM

    What makes me think that the gibbon walking on two legs is amazing is, because you would have thought if there was going to be another primate/ape that would be walking that there would be other candidates nearer to home, like the chimp or orangutan, even a gorilla. And it is weird that the giibon is the only one other than the human.

    Then you have I think all animals that have sex usually front-on-back i.e doggie style but not the bonobo chimp.  There might be other.

    What I mean is that bonobo can sometimes have sex like humans, as in face to face.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #33 - October 31, 2011, 12:25 AM

    Another thing I learned this week was that humans have the same number of hair follicles as chimpanzees, namely 5million. Just that chimps have fur and we have mostly tiny microscopic fine hairs. We changed because men liked the less hairiest of woman.

    I have spoken to a few muslims and it seems that scientific evidence of the closelessness between ourselves and monkeys is evidence of humans being turned into monkeys by God. Then some Muslims will rationalise on talking about how closely the pig is related in terms of success of pig- organ transplantation ( i think it is something to do size?)

    This makes them think that these are the people turned into pigs by God. Lol sad really. But one thing that makes me chortle is that apparently some cannibals have described human flesh of tasting like pork.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #34 - October 31, 2011, 12:32 AM

    Another thing I learned this week was that humans have the same number of hair follicles as chimpanzees, namely 5million. Just that chimps have fur and we have mostly tiny microscopic fine hairs. We changed because men liked the less hairiest of woman.

    Unsupported speculation there. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #35 - October 31, 2011, 12:43 AM

    which bit - the number of hair folicles or the sex-selection by hair aspect? If it is the second, fair enough, not going to argue with ya.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #36 - October 31, 2011, 12:45 AM

    Second bit.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #37 - October 31, 2011, 12:47 AM

    lol- you into hairy women?

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #38 - October 31, 2011, 12:52 AM

    Not particularly, but it's speculation that a liking for less hairy females five million years ago is what drove humans evolving so that both sexes are less hairy than our primate relatives.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #39 - October 31, 2011, 02:01 AM

    It's more likely that our method of sweating modified the hair follicles to be less productive. The female having less hair is almost certainly a case of neoteny, with youth being a desirable appearance for a potential mate.

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #40 - October 31, 2011, 04:45 AM

    So by that argument, women having pubic hair would indicate that they were no longer suitable for mating. Maybe you should rethink things. Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #41 - October 31, 2011, 10:45 AM

    I would argue that pubic hair is a sign of fertility as little girls do not have it. There is also the suggestion of it being a store for pheromones so that they lingered and did not just dissipate into nothingness.
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #42 - October 31, 2011, 12:21 PM

    What lily said is correct. Neoteny is not always a case of keeping a trait to the exclusion of all signs of maturity. Pubic hair is the sign of the maturity required to be a potential mate as much as a bright red rump in other primates... just imagine if we had maintained that particularly "lovely" sign instead  Cheesy

    I've been driven mad trying to prove my sanity
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #43 - October 31, 2011, 05:02 PM

    Quote
    just imagine if we had maintained that particularly "lovely" sign instead


    In that case we all would have been turned on by that sign... Cheesy

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #44 - October 31, 2011, 06:54 PM

    Here is an example where a bird of the same spp (species) does not understand each other due to geographical reasons.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1123973.stm

    this is one proof that animals of the same spp do not 'speak' in the same way.

    http://animal.discovery.com/news/briefs/20060320/birdaccent.html
    http://research.duke.edu/stories/speaking-accent-keeps-crossbills-straight

    ^^ there is also evidence that there are accents in bird song dependant on area where youngsters were born.

    http://anthro.palomar.edu/behavior/behave_3.htm

    ^^ Instances of primate tool use and invention - these are learned - the juveniles learn the techniques from elders

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture#Biological_anthropology:_the_evolution_of_culture

    some examples of arguements from both sides of the arguement about culture in animals

    http://www.jstor.org/pss/223373

    ^^ and a paper arguing for culture in at least some of the species investigated

    As for cultural instances in nature

    I think what you need to understand as well is that scientists and theorisers do not know it all either and that just because there is no evidence at the moment for say non-human culture, it may still exist in secret.

    As for human evolution here is a lecture on it I had last yr - will post soon - if dont please pm me
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #45 - October 31, 2011, 07:01 PM

    http://pdfcast.org/pdf/human-evol
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #46 - November 01, 2011, 02:38 PM

    Yes I agree with Mr sanity - that losing fur was a likely result of living on the Savannah/midday sun/running to hunt, (needing to sweat) though they must have been cold at night, unless they started wearing clothes/fur. There are other theories, that our ancestors might have lived semi-aquatically - fur is no good in the sea, compared to hairless, and a theory about loss of fur being helpful against the fight with parasites/ticks, perhaps we will never know, perhaps it is a combination of all three/two.

    Yes pubic hair and arm-pit hair is located at places of major scent glands and hair is used to waft it more efficiently.

    But with most things imo sex is not far behind lol - i.e as soon as technology advances t.v/video/internet sex/porn is not far behind.

    Males would have been attracted to the most fertile of women, how would they judge this fertility, via good glowing skin and healthy hair. This would have been more apparent in young women, namely teenagers - that's why I suppose billions are spent on skin creams/hair stuff to amke older woman look young also.

    I believe a little in Charles darwin theory of Sex Selection -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection

    Perhaps that is a reason why evolutionist say that currently humans are evolving to be more beautiful (they also say humans are evolving to be less violent, because more and more undesirables are being jailed).

    I suppose hairy women will be less desirable to mate with those that are not ergo more unhairy genes will becarried forward.

    of course culture has a part to play - in the west currently it is porn culture hence apprently the need for some women to undergo surgery on their labias to make them look more appealing  or dye their anal hair lol

    If everything else remains the same perhaps in a hundred thousand years, most women will have deep throats.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #47 - November 01, 2011, 07:02 PM

    Jews invented dinosaurs to confuse Muslim scientists!

    "The words that oscillate between nonsense and supreme meaning are the oldest and truest." - C.G. Jung
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #48 - November 21, 2011, 06:44 PM

    This argument can be seen in a number of ways. I would argue that we did evolve from apes but not the apes that now exist. All apes are descended from more primitive apes that evolved from tail-less rhesus monkeys.

    By the way, animals can have a "culture", such as blue tits in the UK pecking holes in milkbottle tops. Horses and donkeys that live in stables also learn - and teach each other- to undo bolts and quick-release knots.
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #49 - November 21, 2011, 11:41 PM

    1) how many generations are there between apes and us...by generation i mean different type of species ?


    I read a really good way of visualising this in one of Richard Dawkins books (can't remember which one).

    Imagine standing opposite a chimp and looking into its eyes. Take hold of your mothers hand with your right hand, the chimp does the same with its mother with its left hand. Each of the mothers hold hands with their mothers, your grandmothers, and the grandmothers with their mothers, your great grandmothers and so on, forming two lines stretching away into the distance. After only 70,000 mothers in each line the two individuals at the other end of the line looking into each others eyes would be members of the same species. Enough to fill a large sports stadium, that’s how close they are. Each animal in the line would show no discernable difference to its mother or daughter. For this trick to work we need to take time out of the equation but there are species alive today where this trick works in real time. They are called ring species.

    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #50 - November 22, 2011, 12:24 AM

    ^ The Ancestor’s Tale. I have it and read it and love it.
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #51 - November 22, 2011, 01:31 AM

    I read a really good way of visualising this in one of Richard Dawkins books (can't remember which one).

    Imagine standing opposite a chimp and looking into its eyes. Take hold of your mothers hand with your right hand, the chimp does the same with its mother with its left hand. Each of the mothers hold hands with their mothers, your grandmothers, and the grandmothers with their mothers, your great grandmothers and so on, forming two lines stretching away into the distance. After only 70,000 mothers in each line the two individuals at the other end of the line looking into each others eyes would be members of the same species. Enough to fill a large sports stadium, that’s how close they are. Each animal in the line would show no discernable difference to its mother or daughter. For this trick to work we need to take time out of the equation but there are species alive today where this trick works in real time. They are called ring species.



    I am grateful to you for bringing this piece of work of dawkins to my attention. Afro

    So in total about 140,000 generations. I have read about Mitochondrial Eve 'the woman from whom all living humans today descend, on their mother's side' and Y-chromosomal Adam, from whom all living people are descended patrilineally (tracing back along the paternal lines of their family tree only).

    Mitochondrial Eve lived about 200,000 years ago, make me wonder how many generations Mitochondriall Eve is away from us, 140,000 from chimp to man in what 5 million years, (if I have this right) so one/twentyfifth gives us 5600 generations away.

    Y-chromosomal Adam they say could be early as 70,100 thousand years ago, so at most 2800 generations ago.

    It would be cool to write a movie about Y-chromosomal Adam, others may opt for Mitochondrial Eve but I'd say Adam would have been more dramatic. of course he wouldn't be the first man on earth, but a movie does call for some suspension of belief. Set in a fictitious garden of Eden, somewhere in the Rift Valley, population diminished by some natural disaster, say like Lake Toba and amonsgst the survivors, man v man, someone arises whho we could lable Adam. Lol

    Quote
    By the way, animals can have a "culture",


    Some would say that apes at least have 'morality'.

    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #52 - November 22, 2011, 01:46 PM



    @ devilsadvokat: I'll dig the Dawkins book out and quote it for you.

    There are many observations of morality in primates, one that springs to mind was in a Yt video I saw years ago (can't find it now) that showed a fine example of protection of the weak. A new young male chimp was introduced to a  group that was made up of mainly females, some subordinate males and an alpha male. Following the introduction to the females and the other males (during which the alpha male remained aloof) the new male was briefly attacked by the alpha male, the alpha male would back off after his short attack and the new male would seek reassurance from the rest of the group, which he received. After a short while the alpha male would attack again and back off. The third attack was beaten off by the females of the group, each subsiquent attempt to attack was thwarted by the females untill the alpha male had no choice but to accept the new male into the group. Makes you wonder where the real power lies.

    A second example of remarkable chimp behaviour was observed in the wild, I found this one really surprising. An alpha male had had a fight with an lone outsider male who was trying to take over the group. The alpha male was ruthless and ruled quite cruely with an iron fist (there are many diferent styles of leadership within primate societies), during the fight, which the alpha won, the alpha male suffered a bad bite to his hand. After the fight the alpha male walked with a pronounced limp because of the injury. A few days later the males were observed leaving the group in a hunting party, led from the front by the alpha male, limping, followed by a line of subordinate males who where also limping. When the alpha male looked back at the other males they stopped limping. Some of the subordinate males carried highly exaggerated limps, some chose not to limp. One chimp, the groups No2 would even break into a forward roll at every step whilst behind the alpha. The tepmtation to think that they were taking the piss behind the bosses back to me is inescapable. This raises questions about the broadness of chimp intelligence.



    "Happy happy, joy joy!" Stimpson J Cat.
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #53 - November 22, 2011, 04:25 PM

    Apes can do anything.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAFwd-4CkMM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L_SjngmnO8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQf6cogMuI

    There, 3 different species showing when you wanna walk, you can. Just like we can crawl on all fours, just not very comfortable, but neither is walking upright, we've not been doing it long biologically speaking - we'd much rather sit. Damn healthcare is the reason we don't have wings  Angelic, natural selection has been replaced with artificial selection in a lot of ways.





    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #54 - November 22, 2011, 04:28 PM

    Before anyone says something about the wings, it's a joke. -_-

    Before Jesus was, I AM.
  • Re: question about evolution
     Reply #55 - November 23, 2011, 09:28 PM

    @posthuman

    amazing clips.....thanks buddy

    Disbelief doesn't justify getting tortured in eternal hell
  • question about evolution
     Reply #56 - January 16, 2014, 09:15 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKvKYFv9eo8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdUD_vJZ8wM

    Well.. for those who don't have biology background  that should prove  it

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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