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Theme Changer

 Topic: Egypt : nudity against Islamism

 (Read 31656 times)
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  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #150 - November 24, 2011, 05:59 PM

    yeh, so? isn't one of the points for women in muslim societies to be able to be hot, sexy and good-looking?
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #151 - November 24, 2011, 06:02 PM

    Isn't that the case in all societies. Huh?
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #152 - November 24, 2011, 06:03 PM

    i'm talking about muslim societies in particular because in the west one could argue that we should be standing up against female objectification. although i think there's a difference between patriarchal objectification and autonomous sexuality.
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #153 - November 24, 2011, 06:06 PM

    Abood they have to be naked to do this? I'm not supporting her persecution or not supporting her right to do it on the Internet. I just don't agree with it.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #154 - November 24, 2011, 06:07 PM

    no, they can sexually liberate themselves while wearing a burqa. Roll Eyes
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #155 - November 24, 2011, 06:08 PM

    They don't "have to be naked" but they also didn't "have to protest" at Tahrir square and hold up traffic. It is subjective - what is decent and indecent... bottom line is that for Aliyaa, this is about owning her own body in a way that is not allowed, especially in the society where she is from.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #156 - November 24, 2011, 06:17 PM

    Many thanks allat and others.

    The point is surely this:

    Egypt is, despite its recent revolution, a desperately conservative country in which fundamental issues of human rights (including the right to publish pictures of oneself stark naked) remain very contentious. This should not, of course, be so. There should be *no question* about such rights... but in al-Misr, they are. These issues need confronting now if the Revolution is to progress past the anti-Mubarak stage at which it stalled in Spring of this year.

    We need a full-scale revolt, not just against Mubarak and all the other evil, table-banging bosses with their "I-own-you-you-will-do-as-I-say" bullshit and thuggery. We need to make Egypt anew. And that means we need to shock the 'ulema, we need to confront the age-old and entirely regressive attitudes we find amongst us...

    And it sorts the wheat from the chaff. April 6 Movement, despite their pompous declaiming about the "people" have proven themselves to be just another set of power-hungry dogs over exactly this issue. We need Revolution and we are going to make it.

    It is not a dinner party, for sure... but that we have courageous women of Alya'a's sort to make a stand gives me hope.

    We need to move on.

    Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.

    Similar bollox and hijabi fashion tips, here: http://nilesider.wordpress.com/
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #157 - November 24, 2011, 06:18 PM

    If ur not grown up to accept that people don't have to agree with your stance 100% then go ahead and get your knickers in a knot over it.

    What is this flimsy nonsense? You are free to disagree. You are disagreeing. Whether I accept it or not is irrelevant. You still have the privilege of doing it. I can't silence you, nor have I given any indication that I wish to.

    What does it even mean to 'accept' that you disagree? As a sentence, it isn't even articulating anything. I have to accept the strings of words you present in front of me, because they exist. But I don't have to accept the truth value of your statements. I'm challenging the actual ideas conveyed by your words, not your right to say words.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #158 - November 24, 2011, 06:20 PM

    Rehumanizing her sexuality?

    I'm not convinced you understand what that means. Tell me what you think it means.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #159 - November 24, 2011, 06:24 PM

    Mona Eltahawy, who has been detained in Cairo very recently, and allegedly been subjected to physical and sexual assault while detained, wrote this piece about Aliyaa:



    Egypt's naked blogger is a bomb aimed at the patriarchs in our minds
    By posing naked, Aliaa Mahdy has brilliantly challenged the misogyny and sexual hypocrisy of Egypt's leaders

    by
    Mona Eltahawy
    guardian.co.uk, Friday 18 November 2011 15.36 GMT

    Quote
    (Clicky for piccy!)
    The blog of 20-year-old Egyptian blogger Aliaa Mahdy Photograph: Aliaa Mahdy


    When a woman is the sum total of her headscarf and hymen – that is, what's on her head and what is between her legs – then nakedness and sex become weapons of political resistance. You can witness how nudity sears through layers of hypocrisy and repression by following Aliaa Mahdy, a 20-year-old Egyptian who lit the fuse of that double-H bomb when she posted a nude photograph of herself on her blog last week.

    It was in Egypt, after all, that the ruling military junta stripped women of both headscarves (detained female activists were made to strip) and hymens when it subjected them to "virginity tests" last March, by which a soldier inserted two fingers into their vaginal opening. What are the military's "virginity tests", but a cheap tactic to humiliate and silence? When sexual assault parades as a test of the "honour" of virginity, then posing in your parents' home in nothing but stockings, red shoes and a red hair clip is an attack towards all patriarchs out there.

    Supporters and detractors quickly lined up to comment on her blog, where the counter for pageviews outpaces a pendulum many times over. Far from the immature naïf some have tried to paint her as being, Mahdy knows exactly where it hurts – and kicks. She wrote:

    "Put on trial the artists' models who posed nude for art schools until the early 70s, hide the art books and destroy the nude statues of antiquity, then undress and stand before a mirror and burn your bodies that you despise to forever rid yourselves of your sexual hangups before you direct your humiliation and chauvinism and dare to try to deny me my freedom of expression".

    She might have been born 10 years into Hosni Mubarak's rule, but Mahdy understands the way personal freedoms have steadily shrunk in Egypt. The double whammy of military rule – in place since 1952 – along with the growing influence of Islamism, ensured that. Mubarak would fill jails with Islamists, but would fight their ideas not by giving civil and personal liberties room to express themselves, but through conservative clerics employed by the state. When the only two sides fighting are conservative – even if one of them is just conservative in appearance – then everyone loses. And women don't just lose; they're also used as cheap ammunition.

    Witness the ultra-conservative Salafi party's use of female candidates on their list: it looks good when you have female candidates; you can tell the feminists who decry your misogynistic ideology to shut up. But the said candidates have no face, and no voice. On election pamphlets, a rose represented one Salafi female candidate – and soon after, the rose was replaced by a picture of the candidate's husband. There are reports that if Salafi women win parliamentary seats, their husbands or a male guardians will speak on their behalf because Salafis consider a woman's voice to be sinful.

    While Mahdy's act has been hashtagged (#NudePhotoRevolutionary) and her name tweeted and Facebooked endlessly, others did not receive such attention. Samira Ibrahim, the only one of the women subjected to "virginity tests" who is taking the military to court for sexual assault, has neither a dedicated hashtag nor notoriety. Another woman, Salwa el-Husseini, was the first to reveal what the military did to them, but news reports have said she can't raise a lawsuit because she doesn't have identification papers.

    Not only did el-Husseini speak out, she courageously agreed to be filmed at a session of testimonies on military abuses. Again, hardly anyone knows her name, her recorded testimony isn't racking up page views, and she was called a liar and vilified for speaking out. Both women have vehemently maintained they were virgins.

    If "good girls" in headscarves who kept their legs together only to be violated by the military speak out and no one listens, what's the message being sent? When the military justified its violations by saying "those girls aren't like your daughter or mine. These were girls who had camped out in tents with male protesters in Tahrir Square", what's the message?

    Some in the liberal camp have accused Mahdy of "harming" the revolution by allegedly confirming the stereotypes of revolutionaries that its opponents hold. Shame on them! Why allow those opponents to set the agenda for "good" and "bad". Since when do revolutions allow their conservative opponents to set the agenda?

    When Mohammed Bouazizi, fed up with humiliation, repression and poverty, set himself on fire in Tunisia last January, essentially taking state abuse to its logical end, he ignited the revolutionary imagination of the Middle East and north Africa. Aliaa Mahdy, fed up with hypocrisy and sexual repression, undressed. She is the Molotov cocktail thrown at the Mubaraks in our heads – the dictators of our mind – which insists that revolutions cannot succeed without a tidal wave of cultural changes that upend misogyny and sexual hypocrisy.

    Source: Egypt's naked blogger is a bomb aimed at the patriarchs in our minds
    (© 2011 Guardian News and Media Limited)

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #160 - November 24, 2011, 06:25 PM

    By the by, I am presently listening to a combination of small arms fire and gas canisters being fired in the air by the army/police as another demonstration is massacred by the Army and the forces of counter-revolution. All this talk becomes at the very least useless in the face of the Risen People and their Revolution.

    I am in Alexandria, incidentally.

    Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.

    Similar bollox and hijabi fashion tips, here: http://nilesider.wordpress.com/
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #161 - November 24, 2011, 06:27 PM

    She is fantastic. I wish we had 10 000 Aliya'a.


    Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.

    Similar bollox and hijabi fashion tips, here: http://nilesider.wordpress.com/
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #162 - November 24, 2011, 06:31 PM

    Makes me hate that Muhammed even more. What a fucking cunt.
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #163 - November 24, 2011, 06:31 PM

    She is fantastic. I wish we had 10 000 Aliya'a.




    COME! COME AND FIGHT FI SABEEL ILAH!

    :Muhammedtrollface:
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #164 - November 24, 2011, 06:34 PM

    Hawar, I agree with your sentiment, but I advise you to refrain from calling people you don't like "cunts". Especially considering this is a thread where people are discussing what it means to de-objectify women's bodies, and reclaim/rehumanize sexuality (i.e. let's try and watch it when we go along with the stupid old ideas of using sexuality and sexual words as curse words), especially since "cunt" has become quite the popular swear word around here lately.

    Just a friendly request Smiley

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #165 - November 24, 2011, 06:37 PM



    Pepe

    I kind of understand where you're coming from. You personally don't see it as a suitable form of protest. I think others here make compelling arguments for why it is. The idea of many different layers of protest being a reality, of simultaneous mutinies on an individual level against different aspects of oppressiveness is a way of looking at this beyond the idea of tactical reasons for not doing this for the sake of others sensibilities. This is about a revolt of the human spirit and conscience, which is different from a macro-protest against structural, institutional issues, marching and demonstrating in Cairo and so on (although they could be linked on and rebound off and ignite each other)

    The way I see it is though, what do you do now that she's done this? For me, whatever you think about the advisability of it as a form of protest, we are in a scenario in which I don't think there can be anything other than full advocacy and support for her. Its one of those issues. The deed has been done. So where do we stand on it?

    As you've said, you are able to separate your personal disagreement for it from your feelings about how she should be protected from persecution. Being able to advocate for what we personally have ambivalent feelings for is a reality of how complex the issues we have to face up to are about. The old adage of disagreeing with what you say, but defending your right to say it come into play here. If you can balance those, it shows a sophisticated conscience.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #166 - November 24, 2011, 06:40 PM

    A very cool and righteous request, Alaat.

    I would like to know, given that there are some Iranians hereabouts, whether this is just a replay of what you went through - and what the fuck we are meant to do next?

    [Request from my friend Nourhan, who is reading this over my shoulder and hogging the joint, gal!]

    Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.

    Similar bollox and hijabi fashion tips, here: http://nilesider.wordpress.com/
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #167 - November 24, 2011, 06:41 PM

    *allat

    I do beg your pardon for mistyping your name.

    Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.

    Similar bollox and hijabi fashion tips, here: http://nilesider.wordpress.com/
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #168 - November 24, 2011, 06:45 PM

    No worries, Abu Faris Smiley

    I think you should also try contacting Maryam Namazie directly and ask her for advice or where to turn for advice/ideas/support. She checks all the comments on her blog linked here.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #169 - November 24, 2011, 06:46 PM

    Billy now that they have her in custody we should ofcourse fully support her and be part of the voice that demands her release. We should speak out against any harm done to her. I'll be first in line to defend her even if I didn't agree with her method.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #170 - November 24, 2011, 06:50 PM

    Oh crap my bad I thought she was detained but I'm guessing she isn't? My fault for reading and typing on my iPhone while I'm at the gym on the eliptical machine.

    -------------------
    Believe in yourself
    -------------------
    Strike me down and I'll just become another nail in your coffin
    -------------------
    There's such a thing as sheep in wolfs clothing... religious fanatics
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #171 - November 24, 2011, 06:51 PM


    Yeah she hasn't been detained - at least not yet.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #172 - November 24, 2011, 07:32 PM

    Abu Faris

    Rest assured the official CEMB stance is unqualified support for Aliaa.

    I was shocked when I first saw the photo (I was brought up with fairly conservative values regarding sex and nudity by both my Egyptian father and English mother despite growing up in the west - not to mention all the years I was a devout Muslim) - and although I supported Aliaa I expressed doubts about whether this was the right way to do things and concerns that in a climate in Egypt where liberals are in a battle with the Islamists it would weaken potential support.

    I was wrong to add any "ifs and buts" and I wholeheartedly support her.

    If her nudity shocks me and makes me feel a bit uncomfortable - that's my problem - not Aliaa's.

    The whole point was clearly meant to make people feel uncomfortable, it was meant to provoke, it was meant to be a kick in the balls of a deeply misogynistic and sexually hypocritical society.

    Worrying about whether it will alienate some was not Aliaa's concern - and rightly so - her action was meant to shake everyone and has already achieved more overnight than years of softly softly bending over backwards.

    Be true to yourself whether others like it or not - it is the only way things really change.

    As Maryam says it doesn't matter what form the protest takes. Nor does it matter a fig if it's something *I* personally wouldn't do - no-one is asking me to!!!

    We badly need amazingly brave people like Aliaa - and my God anyone who knows what Egyptian society is like will know how she brave she is - to push the boundaries for the less brave (like myself).

    Maryam has blogged about it extensively - and also been in contact with Aliaa:

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/18/nude-photo-of-egyptian-blogger-is-a-scream-against-islamism/

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/18/aliaa-is-not-obscene-you-are/

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/20/love-without-limits-homage-to-aliaa-magda-elmahdy/

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/20/screams-against-islamism/

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/22/calling-all-nude-photo-revolutionaries/

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/22/she-is-blasphemy-day-by-nesrine/

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/11/23/i-would-rather-be-naked-than-silent/

    We also discussed Aliaa on the Jinn & Tonic Show and Maryams comments are spot on.

    Watch from: 12:40

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um0ERulcYLo
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #173 - November 25, 2011, 06:14 AM

    Many, many thanks to all of you.

    In other news, Mona El-Tahawy (who not so long ago took the snaky Tariq Ramadan to the cleaners) has been beaten and sexually assaulted by Egyptian police. She is reported to have had limbs broken in the thug attack. Mona was the woman who exposed the Egyptian police and army tactic of terrorising women by "virginity tests".

    The people want the army and police off the streets. If they will not go, they will be made to go.

    Egyptians are appealing to ordinary soldiers to refuse orders and refuse to beat and kill the people.

    Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.

    Similar bollox and hijabi fashion tips, here: http://nilesider.wordpress.com/
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #174 - November 25, 2011, 01:11 PM

    Just a small thing to make everyone think;

    Why is seeing male nipples okay for everyone including children yet seeing female nipples is wrong for everyone but her partner, especially when that is the tool which feeds you when you are most vulnerable when you are a baby. Yes they are sexually attractive I get that, but is anything wrong with that?

    What is so beautiful and innocent about a child;s body and not an adult's body?
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #175 - November 25, 2011, 01:28 PM

    Just a small thing to make everyone think;

    Why is seeing male nipples okay for everyone including children yet seeing female nipples is wrong for everyone but her partner, especially when that is the tool which feeds you when you are most vulnerable when you are a baby. Yes they are sexually attractive I get that, but is anything wrong with that?

    What is so beautiful and innocent about a child;s body and not an adult's body?

    because ..because .. female nipples give sacred milk  lipsrsealed


    lol.. she is beautiful outside and inside..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #176 - November 25, 2011, 04:05 PM

    With all this strict conservative resistance it makes me feel like, fuddies feel like cornered rats putting up a big fight before they die out. So things are going to worst before they get better. Then 3 generations from now, their great great grand children will look at back and wonder what all this conservative bullshit was about.

    Either way I think I they have good intentions to 'protect' their women. But at what cost to them? Fish in the bowl well fed and taken care of? or fish in the ocean wide open space and new things to explore but open to the elements. Hmmmm :>


    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #177 - November 25, 2011, 04:23 PM

    There is a marked difference between protect and oppress. I don't even think anything as gallant as protection enters into the motivation. It isn't about protecting what is vulnerable or cherished, it's about aggressively ploughing out any sense of liberty or hope a woman might have so that they remain subdued chattel.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #178 - November 25, 2011, 05:00 PM

    There is a marked difference between protect and oppress. I don't even think anything as gallant as protection enters into the motivation. It isn't about protecting what is vulnerable or cherished, it's about aggressively ploughing out any sense of liberty or hope a woman might have so that they remain subdued chattel.


    A great deal of it is about protecting the man's honour rather than protecting the woman in any way.
  • Re: Egypt : nudity against Islamism
     Reply #179 - November 26, 2011, 11:16 AM

    Oh, Aliyaa El-Mahdi has now launched a campaign to encourage men to wear the hijab. She was trying to get men to post up pictures on a Facebook page, but the forces of Egypt's well-organised cyber counter-revolution (now with added Islamist support) has managed to take down that page...

    If menfolk want to show solidarity in this manner, please post pictures of yourselves (nude or otherwise) wearing the hijab up on my blog (address below).

    Once all struggle is grasped, miracles are possible.

    Similar bollox and hijabi fashion tips, here: http://nilesider.wordpress.com/
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