Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #30 - December 08, 2011, 01:47 AM

Version 1.2 will attack some points used by atheist widely. This should be interesting.

Version 1.2 of the "Embryology in the Qur'an: A Scientific-Linguistic Analysis of Chapter 23" is almost ready. We have included a new chapter on "Was Galenic Medicine the Source of the Prophet's Medical Knowledge". The new chapter will show philosophical, linguistic and historical inconsistencies with the popular and academic assertions made atheists and sceptics. For instance it will highlight the logical fallacy of maintaining that similarity implies plagiarisation, it will provide a linguistic break down of key words in Galen's literature and show how they do not correspond with the Qur'anic terms, it will expose the fallacy of using English translations of the original Greek and Arabic, it will show how there was no practical link between Galenic views on Embryology and 7th century Arabia, and it will provide evidence that will show that 7th century medicine in Arabia was non-Hellenic. Watch this space.

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #31 - December 08, 2011, 02:52 AM

Quote from: Shahid Raza on December 07, 2011, 02:57 PM
I can't see any of his posts on fb. Have they banned him?

I don't know, I saw TheRationalizer's posts there, read many of them, they could have also deleted them, I am not sure.
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #32 - December 08, 2011, 03:30 AM

Quote from: canex on December 08, 2011, 01:47 AM
Version 1.2 of the "Embryology in the Qur'an: A Scientific-Linguistic Analysis of Chapter 23" is almost ready. We have included a new chapter on "Was Galenic Medicine the Source of the Prophet's Medical Knowledge". The new chapter will show philosophical, linguistic and historical inconsistencies with the popular and academic assertions made atheists and sceptics. For instance it will highlight the logical fallacy of maintaining that similarity implies plagiarisation, it will provide a linguistic break down of key words in Galen's literature and show how they do not correspond with the Qur'anic terms, it will expose the fallacy of using English translations of the original Greek and Arabic, it will show how there was no practical link between Galenic views on Embryology and 7th century Arabia, and it will provide evidence that will show that 7th century medicine in Arabia was non-Hellenic. Watch this space.

And despite all of that, the version in the Quran will still be wrong.

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #33 - March 05, 2012, 01:26 AM

im really bored of this now, but this chump wont drop it. more embryology bullshit on facebook

anyway, i find this amusing:
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #34 - March 05, 2012, 02:33 AM

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Embryology_in_the_Quran_v1.1.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmqlodiEFsg

yap it is all fuck ah sona..

032.007: Who made good everything that He has created, and He began the creation of man from dust .. .............that is embryology

032.008: Then He made his progeny of an extract, of water held in light estimation. .............that is embryology

“He It is Who created all things in the best way and began the creation of man from clay, and made his progeny from an extract of despised fluid (Sulalah) ” (32: 7-8) ................that is embryology

“So, let man consider of what he was created . He was created of gushing water ” (86: 5-6) ................that is embryology

“He has created man from a sperm (fluid-drop) and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer.” (16: 4). ................that is embryology

Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled (without purpose)? Was he not once a fluid-drop of ejected semen? . (75:36-37 ...............and that is embryology

and that is all very clear cut clean embryolog, we don't need any linguistic jugglery to understand few words..

Sure even Dog knows that it need to ejaculate sperm in to a female dog to get babies out of it.. Human being are more intelligent than dogs., May those stupid 7th century Bedouin baboons were not as smart as dogs., We don't need 7th century nonsense as 21st century Science book...

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #35 - March 22, 2012, 06:51 AM

I don't get why this issue is pushed so hard. Even if you agreed that the quran contains valid info about embryology, that information was obviously of no use to Muslims. They had to wait around hundreds of years for people who've never read the quran to bring about our modern understanding of it. If it is true, it simply points out how useless of the quran is to its followers. This pretty much applies to any scientific finding they can latch a verse, or sometimes just a word, onto.
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #36 - March 22, 2012, 07:46 AM

Quote
032.007: Who made good everything that He has created, and He began the creation of man from dust .. .............that is embryology

032.008: Then He made his progeny of an extract, of water held in light estimation. .............that is embryology

“He It is Who created all things in the best way and began the creation of man from clay, and made his progeny from an extract of despised fluid (Sulalah) ” (32: 7-8) ................that is embryology

“So, let man consider of what he was created . He was created of gushing water ” (86: 5-6) ................that is embryology

“He has created man from a sperm (fluid-drop) and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer.” (16: 4). ................that is embryology

Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled (without purpose)? Was he not once a fluid-drop of ejected semen? . (75:36-37 ...............and that is embryology

I'm confuse here

where is quote regarding to women eggs ?

dust,water, despised fluid,
gushing water,ejected semen.....
....
does mo masturbate and inspected his own sperm
under the glaring desert sun ?
where is women in this ?
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #37 - April 02, 2012, 08:02 PM

The shameless charlatan has admitted today on facebook that he quotemined the hadith in Musnad Ahmad that says "from a male nutfah and from a female nutfah." He knowingly omitted the next sentence which says "The man's nutfah is thick and forms the bones and tendons. The woman’s nutfah is fine and forms the flesh and blood".

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=35&BookID=30&PID=4206

See also:
Greek and Jewish ideas about reproduction in the Qur’an and hadith

He claims it is not quotemining and tries to justify it by saying the part he omits is talking about a different reality, even though it is clearly an explanation of the sentence he quotemines lol!

Even worse, despite the hadith being exposed as flawed medieval thinking, he's not going to change his paper! He's quite happy to use the quotemine to suggest Muhammad had access to divine knowledge. At best he suggests he will include the full hadith in an appendix, but then he also agreed to fix his inexcusable omission of Galen's quote about bones being clothed with flesh but didn't, so I have little faith in him.

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #38 - April 02, 2012, 08:21 PM

Make sure you take screenshots of his Facebook comments cuz he tends to go on a deleting spree when he's proven wrong.

.
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #39 - April 03, 2012, 02:44 PM

Hamza is essentially secretly interpreting his evidence (the hadith), using the very claim he is trying to prove with that evidence, in order to justify quotemining it and not letting the reader judge for themselves. I think that's the essense of his dishonest justification. I hope he reconsiders.

I've just noticed that he has evolved his claims about nutfah from v1.1. He originally said it could mean a sperm or egg (p.12 there). Now after being debunked he has dropped that claim and now just claims it means a drop of semen/fluid that contains the single fertilizing sperm / egg. How ridiculous! So Allah is referring to a drop containing a specific sperm, even though that drop is in a continous fluid that contains millions of sperm??! It's nonsensical!

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #40 - May 31, 2012, 10:24 PM

Update to my previous 2 comments. I just had a look on Hamza Tzortzis' site and there is a new version, 2.1b in which he no longer uses that hadith. Some credit is due to him for accepting his mistake (the file is dated the same day I emailed to tell him about it). I was annoyed a month or so ago when I saw update 2.1 in which he had mistakenly changed the citation from Musnad Ahmad to "Sahih Muslim", wrongly thinking he'd found a version of the hadith there without the embarassing part. I doubt it was a coincidence that he had also changed the translation to one that appears on a dawah site making the same citation mistake!

On the subject of nutfah, I hope at some point he corrects his translation of Lisan al Arab on nutfah ("a single drop of water..." when it should be "a little water..." - qalil means small amount) and of ibn Kathir where he translates "drop of nutfah" when it's actually just "nutfah".

Still, he uses his sources much more accurately in that section than the early versions where his original Lisan al Arab quote "single entity from a greater group of its kind" was a mistaken c&p of what was actually someone's comments on a dawah site! It took him weeks to admit to it after I noticed it and told him, despite many people asking about it. Eventually with diplomatic language I persuaded him to fix it (I kind of promised I'd say no more about it, meaning to him on facebook, but he went on to mistranslate the correct quote as mentioned above, so I don't feel too bad about posting this!). I don't think it was deliberate dishonesty, but I remember it was sometimes very hard to get him to admit his mistakes / misuse of sources, of which there were and still are many!

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #41 - August 06, 2012, 10:43 AM

sorry for bump. wrong thread
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #42 - August 06, 2012, 10:13 PM

Quote from: nj7 on May 31, 2012, 10:24 PM
Update to my previous 2 comments. I just had a look on Hamza Tzortzis' site and there is a new version, 2.1b in which he no longer uses that hadith. Some credit is due to him for accepting his mistake (the file is dated the same day I emailed to tell him about it). I was annoyed a month or so ago when I saw update 2.1 in which he had mistakenly changed the citation from Musnad Ahmad to "Sahih Muslim", wrongly thinking he'd found a version of the hadith there without the embarassing part. I doubt it was a coincidence that he had also changed the translation to one that appears on a dawah site making the same citation mistake!

On the subject of nutfah, I hope at some point he corrects his translation of Lisan al Arab on nutfah ("a single drop of water..." when it should be "a little water..." - qalil means small amount) and of ibn Kathir where he translates "drop of nutfah" when it's actually just "nutfah".

Still, he uses his sources much more accurately in that section than the early versions where his original Lisan al Arab quote "single entity from a greater group of its kind" was a mistaken c&p of what was actually someone's comments on a dawah site! It took him weeks to admit to it after I noticed it and told him, despite many people asking about it. Eventually with diplomatic language I persuaded him to fix it (I kind of promised I'd say no more about it, meaning to him on facebook, but he went on to mistranslate the correct quote as mentioned above, so I don't feel too bad about posting this!). I don't think it was deliberate dishonesty, but I remember it was sometimes very hard to get him to admit his mistakes / misuse of sources, of which there were and still are many!

It is really funny how all that endeavor and hard work put on proving that the Quran contains embryology miracles and in the end they come up with nothing more than petty twisted translations, I think hamza's dawah is coming to an end and he will have to stick to philosophical masturbation after all, just like Christians do now.
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #43 - August 06, 2012, 10:36 PM

This is Hamza last Sunday in Speakers Corner shouting about the embryology "miracle"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXc5oVww48c

.
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #44 - August 06, 2012, 11:51 PM

yap let us watch the science of this fool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXc5oVww48c

Gallen GOT IT WRONG
Aristotle GOT IT WRONG

Surah Bakhra .Bakhra GOAT Got it right.. alallallallallal stupid FOOL..

Now watch Curiosity Landing on Mars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZe8bd_5JCA

Idiots like this one MUST HAVE FREEDOM to rant around but we must make sure Kids born to Muslim parents don't fall in to the traps of these fools..

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #45 - September 18, 2012, 08:57 AM

Muslim: would you like to take your shahada now?
Me: of course not
Muslim: Hamza Tzortzis did
Me: Hamza Tzortzis is an utter moron
Muslim: Hamza Tzortzis is very smart
Me: No he isn;t
Muslim: Yes he is
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #46 - September 18, 2012, 01:18 PM

Irrefutable. So, did you?

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #47 - September 22, 2012, 06:11 PM

The New Video by Captaindisguise on Hamza's Embryology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPgT_gV97tw
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #48 - September 22, 2012, 06:18 PM

Quote from: sturmgewehr on August 06, 2012, 10:13 PM
It is really funny how all that endeavor and hard work put on proving that the Quran contains embryology miracles and in the end they come up with nothing more than petty twisted translations, I think hamza's dawah is coming to an end and he will have to stick to philosophical masturbation after all, just like Christians do now.

The funny thing is, this is exactly what the qur’an accuses jews and christians of doing: twisting the meaning of verses.
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #49 - September 22, 2012, 06:47 PM

Quote from: dr_sloth on September 18, 2012, 08:57 AM
Muslim: would you like to take your shahada now?
Me: of course not
Muslim: Hamza Tzortzis did
Me: Hamza Tzortzis is an utter moron
Muslim: Hamza Tzortzis is very smart
Me: No he isn;t
Muslim: Yes he is

What happened next ?

Me : Please GTFO

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #50 - November 20, 2012, 01:22 PM

I just heard Hamza being described as a "professor" because he lectures at universities.
i.e, the Islamic student's associations invite him to speak about his bullshit

Muslims are so impressed by this chump. I find it amazing
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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #51 - November 20, 2012, 01:33 PM

Quote from: dr_sloth on September 18, 2012, 08:57 AM
Muslim: would you like to take your shahada now?
Me: of course not
Muslim: Hamza Tzortzis did
Me: Hamza Tzortzis is an utter moron
Muslim: Hamza Tzortzis is very smart
Me: No he isn;t
Muslim: Yes he is

My answers would have been slightly different dr_sloth..

Muslim: would you like to take your shahada now?
Me: Yes.. But Would like to become "Islam is not religion but a Cult"?
Muslim: Hamza Tzortzis did
Me: Off course he did it.. So How about you becoming an Ex-Muslim?
Muslim: Hamza Tzortzis is very smart
Me: Yes He is, In west It has become way of life for fit for nothing fools who can not finish high school to become a Muslim and act like a Muslim preacher and leader without reading a word from Islamic scriptures

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #52 - November 20, 2012, 01:35 PM

Quote from: dr_sloth on November 20, 2012, 01:22 PM
I just heard Hamza being described as a "professor" because he lectures at universities.
i.e, the Islamic student's associations invite him to speak about his bullshit

Muslims are so impressed by this chump. I find it amazing

And most those fools are from Pakistan/Indian subcontinent

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Re: Hamza's paper on Embryology "miracle"
Reply #53 - November 20, 2012, 01:36 PM

Quote from: dr_sloth on November 20, 2012, 01:22 PM
I just heard Hamza being described as a "professor" because he lectures at universities.
i.e, the Islamic student's associations invite him to speak about his bullshit

Muslims are so impressed by this chump. I find it amazing

Its actually very sad - in that it is pathetic that some Muslims grasp at this fraudulent, hot-air blowing snake oil salesman in desperation to have their self esteem and belief lifted up.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

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