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 Topic: Free will!!!

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  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Free will!!!
     OP - December 02, 2011, 12:34 AM
    I don't know if this topic has been discussed here or if there is any similar thread to this but here I go.

    Lately I have been reading something about Free will and all those Incompatibilism, Compatibilism and some Science behind it like Genetics, how it relates to them etc etc...

    In the end I ended up confused.

    I also know about the Free will from the Christian point of view but it makes no sense to me, I just wanted to see how free will works with religions and God or whatever, I read so much that I ended up saying WTF to myself.

    I certainly can't accept that Free will from the Religious point of view since we were created and no one asked us if we want that or not plus religion seems to limit that so called free will.

    in Religion this is how I understand free will:

    I give you and apple and an Orange and I tell you that you are free to chose the one you want and then I pull out my gun, put it in the back of your head and I tell you if you chose the apple I will blow ur head up.

    I don't see any free will here.

    I don't know if my analogy is adequate but that is how I see it in general.

    You have threats of burning in hell if u do something that you are really willing to do etc...


    Discuss.....................
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #1 - December 02, 2011, 12:52 AM
    I recommend you to check out this dialogue:

    http://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/godTaoist.html
    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #2 - December 02, 2011, 12:53 AM
    1.) Free will from a religious point of view is contradictory. If God is all knowing, i.e. he knows everything then it is impossible for humans to have free-will since God already knows what actions and choices we are going to make ever before we were created.

    2.) Free-will from a skeptical point according to Stephen Hawking, quantum mechanics suggest that humans are sorts of complicated biological machines; although our behavior is impossible to predict perfectly in practice, "free will is just an illusion." In other words, he thinks that only compatibilistic (deterministic) free will is possible based on the data.

    Basically it comes down to Determinism.
    Left the forum: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=22997
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #3 - December 02, 2011, 01:51 AM
    we might live in a deterministic universe, but we can only act on the assumption that we have free will.

    /thread.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #4 - December 02, 2011, 01:54 AM
    @ Al-Ma`arri, Lol that was interesting to read.

    @ King Tut & Abood: Good stuff, pretty solid, Abood I like that stance.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #5 - December 02, 2011, 09:00 AM
    Omniscient and omnipotent God does not allow for free will.

    And science seems to saying also that we dont have a free will
    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #6 - December 02, 2011, 11:08 AM
    Free will is a shit concept created by religions.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #7 - December 02, 2011, 10:11 PM
    I used to believe in free will, but I couldn't square it with introspective experience.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #8 - December 02, 2011, 10:38 PM
    I'd like to leave my earthly goods to Buddha.
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #9 - December 05, 2011, 10:32 PM
    I’m kinda fat, does that count as buddha?
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #10 - December 05, 2011, 10:51 PM
    Dunno. I'm only taking advantage of the free will offer because I've got no earthly goods to speak of.
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #11 - December 05, 2011, 10:59 PM
    Bollocks Cry.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #12 - December 07, 2011, 03:59 PM
    1) I've been reading a book that presented research that free-will is an illusion. Some research in neuroscience shows that we will become subconsciously primed for a particular action, before we are aware of a conscious decision to intend it.

    Basically it seems we have self awareness, but not conscious free will like most people assume.

    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/04/is-free-will-an/

    Quote
    I give you and apple and an Orange and I tell you that you are free to chose the one you want and then I pull out my gun, put it in the back of your head and I tell you if you chose the apple I will blow ur head up.

    I don't see any free will here.


    Non stamp collector FTW.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtSM2oVy_E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv9IvCpiHxA
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #13 - December 07, 2011, 04:14 PM
    Some interesting posts here from people who have embraced the understanding that free-will is an illusion...

    http://www.naturalism.org/living1.htm#getting here
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #14 - December 07, 2011, 04:52 PM
    @ strangestdude, hardcore stuff bro Cheesy.

    Thanks a lot Wink
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #15 - December 07, 2011, 05:20 PM
    No prob dude...

    Sam Harris' (neuroscientist) view on free will...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dodTNPp12rg
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #16 - December 07, 2011, 07:55 PM
    Science says we dont have free will. Mystics of all faith have said we dont have free will! Coincidence?
    Little Fly, Thy summer's play
    My thoughtless hand has brushed away.

    I too dance and drink, and sing,
    Till some blind hand shall brush my wing.

    Therefore I am a happy fly,
    If I live or if I die.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #17 - December 10, 2011, 10:35 PM
    Last vid from me but it's a great one discussing the relationship between neuroscience and philosophy...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZS0YTsacd0
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #18 - December 12, 2011, 03:16 AM
    @ strangestdude, thanks a lot man for the links Smiley very informative.

    I found something very interesting and an interesting opinion on free will.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBXRCqDvxGU&feature=channel_video_title
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #19 - March 25, 2012, 05:01 AM
    free willy 2.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #20 - March 25, 2012, 06:53 PM
    Sam Harris released a short book on free will (it's called free-will), I found it concise and insightful.
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #21 - March 25, 2012, 06:59 PM
    Where is it Huh?

    Do you have it on PDF format ?? if you do, could you please then send it to me ??
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #22 - March 25, 2012, 08:51 PM
    Naah, buy it dude. Support the work Afro
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #23 - April 06, 2012, 11:12 AM
    I ran into this religious friend of mine on Facebook, she had written this on her status or profile:

    Quote
    It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error. [Surah 33 Ayat 36] {Sahih International}.


    Then I wrote her farewell free will and she replied to me "The proof for the free will is YOU. You do not believe in God, yet you still exist Smiley As the ayat says: Far away from the truth!"

    I know her analogy is terrible but anyways, what do you think of the Ayat Huh?

    Is the Ayat trying to tell us that is it MY WAY OR NO OTHER WAY or it is a metaphor for something else.

    here is the whole chapter by the way, I am reading it now since verses in the chapter have to be taken in the context of the chapter:
    http://quran.com/33
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #24 - June 02, 2012, 12:00 PM
    I don't believe in free will per se, but I think it raises the question that, so long as you feel free in making your decisions, is there a relevant difference?
    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #25 - June 02, 2012, 12:03 PM
    Yes, there is. Just because you feel free doesn't mean you are. A lot of things in life relating to responsibility and justice depend on the question of free will.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #26 - June 02, 2012, 12:08 PM
    Well, for me it seems the end is the same whether or not my free will is an illusion. I also don't feel that an individuals free will (or lack thereof) is pertinent to justice. The rules of reenforcement still apply, and so the individual may still be "rehabilitated" after a crime. I don't really see how free will even factors into the equation.
    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #27 - June 02, 2012, 12:14 PM
    If people had free will, it seems more just to punish them than if they didn't. And rehabilitation wouldn't be possible.
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #28 - June 02, 2012, 12:16 PM
    I don't see how "lack of free will" equals "inability to be change".

    ETA: I don't see punishment as an issue of moral redemption, I think the aim of punishment to correct behaviour.
    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Free will!!!
     Reply #29 - June 02, 2012, 12:17 PM
    That's not what I said.

    Free will = total control of the self = inability for anyone to control your body/actions.
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »