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 Topic: doc on male circumcision

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  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #60 - December 12, 2011, 05:33 PM
    I mean, if someone came to this forum with circumcision related issues they wanted advice on, I'd expect a bit more than 'LOL! man the fuck up' to be the response they get.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #61 - December 12, 2011, 05:43 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 12, 2011, 05:33 PM
     be a man and shut the fuck up'

    Yap I fully support Raccoon Rapist, Ishina and circumcision.  The only thing I want is shift the timings to 20 year olds.. And as this little news clip says  preferably this circumcision operation should be done  without any anesthesia  and a real man should be able to cut himself without going to any doctor or may be in the doctor office, ideal female doc..

    So all those males in CEMB who are yet be circumcised cut yourself and come back to CEMB and report the pain  threshold..  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #62 - December 12, 2011, 05:53 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 12, 2011, 05:33 PM
    I mean, if someone came to this forum with circumcision related issues they wanted advice on, I'd expect a bit more than 'LOL! man the fuck up' to be the response they get.

    don't generalize. q's position is not reflective of everyone's here who doesn't think infant male circumcision is a big issue. i recognize that some people who were circumcised at birth feel they were abused, i just think people who were circumcised at birth should have more of a say on whether it's abuse or not. kind of like women wearing the hijab should have more of a say on whether they're oppressed or not.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #63 - December 12, 2011, 06:30 PM
    I'm not generalising. I thought it would be obvious that I had Q specifically in mind since those are his exact words in this very thread.

    Your other point I disagree with wholeheartedly. If I see an abuse, damn right I'll call it. You being an individual who happens to be fine with being circumcised is good. Great. I'm happy for you. It's not my concern, though. My concern is the millions of children who go through it involuntarily. I have no idea why you feel oppressed by that concern, nor why you seem to want to be an obstacle to it.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #64 - December 12, 2011, 07:20 PM
    You think circumcision is beneficial? Get it done when you're of age.
    You think it's not? Let it be how it is.

    Simple as that, really.

    Either way win-win, which is why infant male circumcision is a no-no. As for it being child abuse, that's debatable


    Youtube
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #65 - December 12, 2011, 07:42 PM
    not really wanting to go into this crazy argument I just want to point out that there are guys that want to be circumcised but not at their age. They wish it was done when they were infants and wouldnt remember it. 
    I wish parents everywhere could remove their veil of religion and see their kids for whom they actually are.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #66 - December 12, 2011, 07:57 PM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 12, 2011, 06:30 PM
    Your other point I disagree with wholeheartedly. If I see an abuse, damn right I'll call it. You being an individual who happens to be fine with being circumcised is good. Great. I'm happy for you. It's not my concern, though. My concern is the millions of children who go through it involuntarily. I have no idea why you feel oppressed by that concern, nor why you seem to want to be an obstacle to it.

    calling out abuse when you see it is great. it definitely needs to be done. but at the end of the day it's up to the people you believe are experiencing the oppression to decide whether they're oppressed or not.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #67 - December 12, 2011, 07:59 PM
    Quote from: Abood on December 12, 2011, 07:57 PM
    calling out abuse when you see it is great. it definitely needs to be done. but at the end of the day it's up to the people you believe are experiencing the oppression to decide whether they're oppressed or not.


    Agreed. But there are lots of men who were circumcised who do resent having that done to them as infants/without their consent. But when they do speak up, some others tend to swat them down as not being "man enough". It's kind of a catch-22. So, those men who have no problem with being circumcised, like those women who went through FGM but think it was just fine, have the right to believe that. But that should not be hailed as the reason to try to shut up those people who are against mutilating children's genitals.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #68 - December 12, 2011, 11:14 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on December 11, 2011, 10:21 PM
    I'm very angry about the fact that I was circumcised without my consent. Whatever the alleged health benefits (or risks), you don't get to make a choice like that for me.


    +1

    I am not going to do that shit with my future kids. The keyword is consent.
    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #69 - December 12, 2011, 11:23 PM
    Quote
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=19067.msg542171#msg542171


    See here
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #70 - December 13, 2011, 12:46 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on December 12, 2011, 05:18 PM
    You're a dying breed.

    Welcome to the 21st Century.


    Well considering that although the rates of circumcision in the US have declined over the last few decades as of 2010 a majority of newborns are still circumcised in this country, I wouldn't count on us dying out that quick.

    Quote from: Ishina on December 12, 2011, 05:33 PM
    I mean, if someone came to this forum with circumcision related issues they wanted advice on, I'd expect a bit more than 'LOL! man the fuck up' to be the response they get.


    Quote from: allat on December 12, 2011, 07:59 PM
    Agreed. But there are lots of men who were circumcised who do resent having that done to them as infants/without their consent. But when they do speak up, some others tend to swat them down as not being "man enough". It's kind of a catch-22. So, those men who have no problem with being circumcised, like those women who went through FGM but think it was just fine, have the right to believe that. But that should not be hailed as the reason to try to shut up those people who are against mutilating children's genitals.


    So I'm supposed to censor myself when I think people are whining over nothing? And allat, it's not the same as FGM and you know it-- the effect on enjoyment of sex with men is minimal whereas women are denied clitoral orgasms, and the reasons for doing it are very different as well, furthermore while there are some meaningful medically-recognized benefits with male neonatal circumcision, I'm not aware of any for FGM.

    fuck you
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #71 - December 13, 2011, 01:06 AM
    Colonel Q-Daffi:

    Well you are whining over other people whining....

    People are different. Just because you have no issues with it doesnt change the fact that there is a huge market for foreskin restoration and thousands of support groups for men who has been circumsised and who is "whining" about it.
    "Beauty is truth, truth beauty," - that is all
            Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

    - John Keats
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #72 - December 13, 2011, 01:14 AM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on December 13, 2011, 12:46 AM
    So I'm supposed to censor myself when I think people are whining over nothing? And allat, it's not the same as FGM and you know it-- the effect on enjoyment of sex with men is minimal whereas women are denied clitoral orgasms, and the reasons for doing it are very different as well, furthermore while there are some meaningful medically-recognized benefits with male neonatal circumcision, I'm not aware of any for FGM.


    No, AFAIC, you are not supposed to "censor" yourself, and neither is censorship required by the growing number of people, men and women, who are speaking up against both male and female children's genital mutilation.

    There is a misconception among some people that FGM and MGM are worlds apart, when in fact there are 4 different kinds of FGM; the "Type I" FGM is analogous to male circumcision as it is "only" the excision of the clitoral prepuce, not necessarily the whole clitoris. So, if people perform only Type I FGM, is that okay then, because its effect on sexual enjoyment are minimal?

    The other misconception is that there are "health benefits" to male circumcision, especially when it comes to HIV prevention in Sub-Saharan Africa. This myth has been debunked again and again and again, and again, but somehow it keeps being perpetuated.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #73 - December 13, 2011, 01:18 AM
    Quote from: Al-Ma`arri on December 13, 2011, 01:06 AM
    Colonel Q-Daffi:

    Well you are whining over other people whining....


    Well technically I'm whining about Ishina whining about me laughing at the people whining.

    Quote
    People are different. Just because you have no issues with it doesnt change the fact that there is a huge market for foreskin restoration and thousands of support groups for men who has been circumsised and who is "whining" about it.


    Okay, but my question is-- why does their existence automatically legitimize it, and why does it mean I'm supposed to respect their feelings, even if I think they're self-righteously manufactured by neurotic people just to have something to complain about?

    Quote from: allat on December 13, 2011, 01:14 AM
    No, AFAIC, you are not supposed to "censor" yourself, and neither is censorship required by the growing number of people, men and women, who are speaking up against both male and female children's genital mutilation.

    There is a misconception among some people that FGM and MGM are worlds apart, when in fact there are 4 different kinds of FGM; the "Type I" FGM is analogous to male circumcision as it is "only" the excision of the clitoral prepuce, not necessarily the whole clitoris. So, if people perform only Type I FGM, is that okay then, because its effect on sexual enjoyment are minimal?

    The other misconception is that there are "health benefits" to male circumcision, especially when it comes to HIV prevention in Sub-Saharan Africa. This myth has been debunked again and again and again, and again, but somehow it keeps being perpetuated.


    Before I read through all that shit does it debunk the WHO report I posted before?
    fuck you
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #74 - December 13, 2011, 01:23 AM
    yes.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #75 - December 13, 2011, 01:27 AM
    Thanks, will read then. But later. Tongue
    fuck you
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #76 - December 13, 2011, 01:38 AM
    Cool.

    Note that I modified 1 of the links in my post as I had re-pasted one of the other ones by mistake. Here's the list of studies:

    "Male circumcision is not the HIV ‘vaccine’ we have been waiting for!"
    Authors: Lawrence W Green, Ryan G McAllister, Kent W Peterson & John W Travis
    Future HIV Therapy. May 2008, Vol. 2, No. 3, Pages 193-199 , DOI 10.2217/17469600.2.3.193
    (doi:10.2217/17469600.2.3.193)


    "Myths about Circumcision You Likely Believe"
    (with citations)
    Published on September 11, 2011
    Author: Darcia Narvaez, Ph.D.


    (pdf) "Sub-Saharan African randomised clinical trials into male circumcision and HIV transmission: Methodological, ethical and legal concerns"
    Authors: Gregory J Boyle and George Hill


    "How the circumcision solution in Africa will increase HIV infections"
    Authors: Robert S. Van Howe, Michelle R. Storms

    Department of Pediatrics and Human Development, College of Human Medicine, Michigan State University, Marquette, MI, USA

    Journal of Public Health in Africa 2011; 2:e4 doi:10.4081/jphia.2011.e4
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #77 - December 13, 2011, 05:33 AM
    Thanks for the link Allat, though i dont think im really affected by it especially the desensitizing part yet that doesnt mean im in support of it,since i wasnt aware of it myself  until i grew up and was told about it.

    Should i feel bad and sad about it? No, it has already happen and there is nothing i can do about it but to move on yet i can understand why others resent it.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #78 - December 13, 2011, 05:54 AM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on December 13, 2011, 12:46 AM
    ...... furthermore while there are some meaningful medically-recognized benefits with male neonatal circumcision, I'm not aware of any for FGM.

    ...
    some meaningful medically-recognized benefits with male neonatal circumcision.....

    Hmm what are they Colonel?? Did you get that from Canadian Juice who works with  UN medical team in Africa??  Well he is trying to keep his job safe..

    FGM, MGM, LGM, GGM.. so many GMs., I don't care about them Colonel   but I care about Americans.  I think American kids  need that., I fact apart from that Male Genital Mutilation they also need  this. The knowledge of Body and mind  purification., Well the mind   can get cleaned from Quran and Islamic preachers of America..  But for body purification, apart from MGM we got to teach Fiqh of Tahara .  I say male & females of America should learn this, I wonder whether American Immigration office  could give me permanent residence   for teaching such stuff to Americans.   Well other wise also,  Raccoon you read and learn and open a school for Fiqh of Tahara for Americans.
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #79 - December 13, 2011, 06:35 AM
    oops, posted in wrong thread when i got logged in.

    Anyway, while I'm here... well, I don't have much to add to this topic.

    I'm against it for a variety of reasons.

    I've heard people who support it say the stupidest things for it. This one Muslim girl, when I was in the hospital with my sister after she delivered her first baby, and the topic of circumcision came up because we were all worried about it (me especially, and they went ahead and had it done on my nephew :( , I was trying the best I could to try to challenge them and push them in the direction of not doing it. But of course some of them, due to their Islamic mindset, weren't having any of that. The girl was saying that it's a piece of extra skin that needs to be cut off because it harbors bacteria, and so it will make it easier for men to clean themselves.

    I was seriously  Roll Eyes internally at how she failed to realize that, because first of all, what's wrong with putting a bit of fucking effort in cleaning yourself? Circumcised men do it anyway, in the fucking shower, and as women we have to - vulvas have many crevices and folds, very intricate, there's a lot to clean there  Cheesy and a normal, healthy vagina has good bacteria but sometimes might also have some bad (although vaginas are awesome because most of the time they self-clean out the bad  Tongue), but you don't see people snipping women away.... well, you do.  Cry

    But yeah, unjustifiable stupidity.
    Rather be forgotten than remembered for giving in.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #80 - December 13, 2011, 12:35 PM
    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on December 13, 2011, 12:46 AM
    So I'm supposed to censor myself when I think people are whining over nothing?

    I don't think anyone is suggesting you shouldn't speak your mind. But understand it cuts both ways. You don't get to be the only voice being heard.

    Quote from: Colonel Q-Daffi on December 13, 2011, 01:18 AM
    Okay, but my question is-- why does their existence automatically legitimize it, and why does it mean I'm supposed to respect their feelings, even if I think they're self-righteously manufactured by neurotic people just to have something to complain about?

    I think the problem with you is that you are ignorant of how widespread the fallout is and how varied the physical and psychological symptoms are. And I think the reason you are ignorant is because it is largely an unspoken social ill.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #81 - December 13, 2011, 01:17 PM
    There's also the unnecessary complication risks that the practice carries. I know someone who had to be circumcised twice after the first asshole who did it botched it up. I know someone else who has no penis thanks to an infection caused by his circumcision. Again, circumcision carried out for no good medical purpose whatso-fucking-ever and without his consent.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #82 - December 13, 2011, 01:22 PM
    Also, Abood, circumcised males are not necessarily most fit to judge this because they might not want to reach the conclusion that their parents abused them, and because they might want to feel they're still "normal" and that there's nothing wrong with their penis. Whether or not those assertions are true is irrelevant; there is psychological bias with circumcised males.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #83 - December 13, 2011, 01:28 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on December 13, 2011, 01:22 PM
    Also, Abood,  circumcised males are not necessarily most fit to judge this because they might not want to reach the conclusion that their parents abused them, and because they might want to feel they're still "normal" and that there's nothing wrong with their penis. Whether or not those assertions are true is irrelevant; there is psychological bias with circumcised males.

    Hmm.. you are riot.,

    but harakaat., don't tell me and don't tell Abood about that but tell the Juice who started it and who still propagate it with all their education and intelligence..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #84 - December 13, 2011, 01:44 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on December 13, 2011, 01:22 PM
    Also, Abood, circumcised males are not necessarily most fit to judge --

    I would also think that a circumcised person (since childhood) has no point of reference on just how much sensitivity they might have lost, since they've never experienced the potential of their genitalia uncircumcised.
    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #85 - December 13, 2011, 02:37 PM
    Quote from: harakaat on December 13, 2011, 01:22 PM
    Also, Abood, circumcised males are not necessarily most fit to judge this because they might not want to reach the conclusion that their parents abused them, and because they might want to feel they're still "normal" and that there's nothing wrong with their penis. Whether or not those assertions are true is irrelevant; there is psychological bias with circumcised males.

    you're missing my point. i've already recognized that infant circumcision is wrong. what i'm saying is that i'm perfectly fine with my dick. and as a bisexual guy i actually prefer circumcised dicks. so don't come and tell me what i should and shouldn't like and that my preferences are based on some sort of psychological bias.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #86 - December 13, 2011, 03:00 PM
    I haven't even mentioned your sexual preferences Tongue

    Why do you prefer circumcised penises, though?
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #87 - December 13, 2011, 03:21 PM
    Quote
    I haven't even mentioned your sexual preferences

    well it seemed like you were saying that the opinion i hold regarding anything circumcision would be affected by my own denial.

    Quote
    Why do you prefer circumcised penises, though?

    better grip. people talk about how the foreskin is "lubricating" and makes the dick "smoother" like it's necessarily a good thing. it's not. i don't even use lube most of the time when i masturbate. it feels better and gives a better orgasm.

    so yeh, an uncut guy might be more sensitive, but that doesn't mean he'll get better orgasms. and of course, there's much more to sexual pleasure than rubbing your dick.
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #88 - December 13, 2011, 03:26 PM
    I'm not supporting Q-man's position at all but what evidence is there for the orgasm hindrance with regards to circumcision? Has any neurological evidence surfaced that may support the idea of a restoration? Because I have heard that there is a part of a  brain that just doesn't even receive the feedback because a considerable portion of nerves is missing.
    "I measured the skies, now the shadows I measure,
    Sky-bound was the mind, earth-bound the body rests."
    [Kepler's epitaph]
  • Re: doc on male circumcision
     Reply #89 - December 13, 2011, 03:30 PM
    Abood, I thought you were saying you preferred cut sexual partners.
    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
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