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 Topic: Adam and Eve in Islam.

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  • Adam and Eve in Islam.
     OP - December 23, 2011, 04:01 PM
    The story of Adam and Eve in Islam is not the same as that in the bible, there is a fundamental difference here.

    In the bible Adam and Eve had no knowledge of Good and Evil before eating the forbidden fruit, whereas in the Quran it doesn't say so, in the Quran it says that Adam and Eve took the command not to eat the Fruit and this implies that they knew it is bad since it was forbidden.

    There is the Argument that it wasn't Adam's Fault for eating the apple since God knew this will happen which implies it is not Adams fault at all and the counter argument is that God really knew about it but he didn't force Adam to eat the fruit, Adam by Himself chose to eat the fruit, to know something is not the same as to impose someone something, it is like I know person X is a thief and that he will steal but it is not my fault that he steals.

    Another argument to Adam eating the apple is:

    God knew Adam will eat the apple, God knew that the Devil will tempt Adam and Eve to eat the apple but he didn't do anything about it and god knew this will result into Adam's fall from heaven and that later many people won't believe and hell will be filled with people, this was all god's will.

    The counter argument to this is that if god didn't let Adam chose the apple he wouldn't have free will, if he didn't punish both Adam and Eve there would be no Justice and if he didn't forgive them he wouldn't be merciful since it says that he forgave them for the sin.

    Discuss.
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #1 - December 23, 2011, 05:11 PM
    Quran doesn't even mention the fruit. It says mistake.

    And you are exactly right god knew. It makes god hypocrite. In 2:30, allah told angels that he is creating his vicegerent on earth, while in 2:36, expelled adam from heaven for his mistake.
    Admin of following facebook pages and groups:
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  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #2 - December 23, 2011, 05:20 PM
    I thought there was a fruit involved, I must have mixed it with Christianity I have forgotten since I read the Quran a long time ago, still fruit or no fruit the essence stays the same.

    But in the same time he created Adam and Eve and how does it make him responsible for their choice since he gave them free will ?
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #3 - December 23, 2011, 06:27 PM
    shite piece of trivia: apparently Eve had two wombs from which she had children.

    Now at the time of hearing this i sort of cringed in mild disbelief, but luckily for me i had my defence mechanisms at hand to help me deal with my involuntary face twitching when i get super uncomfortable in public,

    but very recently i heard of a story where a woman did actually have two wombs, and as a result had twins from each womb....so yeah, not sure what to make of that.
    I make it rain - apparently?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_I19_mKkU&list=SP1665576E7498BAB7&index=2&feature=plcp
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #4 - December 23, 2011, 08:14 PM
    It’s basically taking the Biblical story, making mistakes as Muhammad generally did, but taking the logical steps in thought that the Jews never did when making up the story in the first place: if god had omnipotence then god would have known Adam would disobey. Islam simply makes this explicit.

    Either way, the story to me consists of a deity creating people and allowing them to do everything, then curtailing their freedom by deliberately imposing temptation there (fruit, serpentine sweet–talker). To me, therefore, the serpent represents a freedom fighter helping Adam & Eve overthrow their tyranny.

  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #5 - December 23, 2011, 08:20 PM
    it was not an apple!   finmad

    it was a mango!   Cheesy
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #6 - December 23, 2011, 08:32 PM
    In Genesis it was simply a ‘fruit’.
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #7 - December 23, 2011, 08:50 PM
    Quote from: Kodanshi on December 23, 2011, 08:14 PM
    It’s basically taking the Biblical story, making mistakes as Muhammad generally did, but taking the logical steps in thought that the Jews never did when making up the story in the first place: if god had omnipotence then god would have known Adam would disobey. Islam simply makes this explicit.

    Either way, the story to me consists of a deity creating people and allowing them to do everything, then curtailing their freedom by deliberately imposing temptation there (fruit, serpentine sweet–talker). To me, therefore, the serpent represents a freedom fighter helping Adam & Eve overthrow their tyranny.




    But why does then god Punish people if he allowed them to do anything ?
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #8 - December 23, 2011, 08:55 PM
    Quote from: sturmgewehr on December 23, 2011, 04:01 PM
    The story of Adam and Eve in Islam is not the same as that in the bible, there is a fundamental difference here.

    In the bible Adam and Eve had no knowledge of Good and Evil before eating the forbidden fruit, whereas in the Quran it doesn't say so, in the Quran it says that Adam and Eve took the command not to eat the Fruit and this implies that they knew it is bad since it was forbidden.

    There is the Argument that it wasn't Adam's Fault for eating the apple since God knew this will happen which implies it is not Adams fault at all and the counter argument is that God really knew about it but he didn't force Adam to eat the fruit, Adam by Himself chose to eat the fruit, to know something is not the same as to impose someone something, it is like I know person X is a thief and that he will steal but it is not my fault that he steals.

    Another argument to Adam eating the apple is:

    God knew Adam will eat the apple, God knew that the Devil will tempt Adam and Eve to eat the apple but he didn't do anything about it and god knew this will result into Adam's fall from heaven and that later many people won't believe and hell will be filled with people, this was all god's will.

    The counter argument to this is that if god didn't let Adam chose the apple he wouldn't have free will, if he didn't punish both Adam and Eve there would be no Justice and if he didn't forgive them he wouldn't be merciful since it says that he forgave them for the sin.

    Discuss.


    So after the tedious ramble what you are really saying is that Quran's version of the story is better. Ok sir point taken.
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #9 - December 23, 2011, 09:47 PM
    @ Passingaround:

    Hardly, I just say there is more space for mental acrobatics in this version of the story.

    why not concentrate on the subject Smiley
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #10 - December 23, 2011, 09:52 PM
    there's no adam and eve in the quran, only adam and his "spouse" (which is the same word as 'husband'). i think it was adam and steve.
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #11 - December 23, 2011, 11:16 PM
    Quote from: passingaround on December 23, 2011, 08:55 PM
    So after the tedious ramble what you are really saying is that Quran's version of the story is better. Ok sir point taken.

  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #12 - December 23, 2011, 11:18 PM
    Quote from: Abood on December 23, 2011, 09:52 PM
    there's no adam and eve in the quran, only adam and his "spouse" (which is the same word as 'husband'). i think it was adam and steve.

    Shouldn't it have been four spouses?
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #13 - December 23, 2011, 11:19 PM
    Quote from: sturmgewehr on December 23, 2011, 04:01 PM

    The counter argument to this is that if god didn't let Adam chose the apple he wouldn't have free will, if he didn't punish both Adam and Eve there would be no Justice and if he didn't forgive them he wouldn't be merciful since it says that he forgave them for the sin.

    Discuss.


    Knowing there is a commonly appreciated opinion that Islam is version 3 of the Abrahamic faiths, perhaps in that version they have fine-tuned the story of Adam and Eve to make more sense of hell taking centre-stage once and for all.

    Simply put, hell appears with version 2 because imo version 1 was beginning to be too lax - (due to the nature of humans - greed, pride etc)and then version 3 appears to compound the relevance of Hell.  But then again I also think that the whole Eve eating forbidden fruit is more a metaphor for illicit/cheating/fucking out of turn.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #14 - December 23, 2011, 11:44 PM
    cheating and fucking out of turn?  with who? LOL
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #15 - December 23, 2011, 11:45 PM
    Lots of animals in Eden.........................
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #16 - December 23, 2011, 11:46 PM
    Quote from: Jinn and Tonic on December 23, 2011, 11:44 PM
    cheating and fucking out of turn?  with who? LOL


    That is the 64 million dollar question.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #17 - December 23, 2011, 11:48 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 23, 2011, 11:45 PM
    Lots of animals in Eden.........................


    I was using it as a metaphor not literal.
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #18 - December 23, 2011, 11:50 PM
    @ devilsadvocate

    Yeah but still the essence of the story stays the same.

    The essence is that Adam and Eve sinned and they were expelled, the problem rises that God must have known this and then there is another problem when Muslim Apologists try to justify this by saying Adam and Eve were able to tell from right and wrong in paradise and they had free will so they chose to sin even though they knew they will die which automatically after this follows that the whole blame falls on humans and they are responsible for all this while God knew about all this stuff and let's admit it he allowed this happen.

    I don't know if u get my point.

    I was also thinking if Adam and Eve were able to understand the concept of death since death didn't exist in heaven, death followed as a result of sin and sinning so how could Adam know what death is if there was no death at all up there.
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #19 - December 23, 2011, 11:59 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on December 23, 2011, 11:45 PM
    Lots of animals in Eden.........................


    Wait, so bestiality is the Sunnah of Adam?
    Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #20 - December 23, 2011, 11:59 PM


    sturmgewehr

    Mate, all that free-will v predestination stuff leaves me cold. Being an athiest, the notion of the existence of sky daddy is laughable so i don't entertain muslim apologist on a theological level, perhaps I would have in a different era of my life.

    Are you sure that Adam and eve knew death was the outcome of eating the fruit?
    I am my own worst enemy and best friend, itsa bit of a squeeze in a three-quarter bed, tho. Unhinged!? If I was a dog I would be having kittens, that is unhinged. Footloose n fancy free, forced to fit, fated to fly. One or 2 words, 3 and 3/thirds, looking comely but lonely, till I made them homely.D
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #21 - December 24, 2011, 12:11 AM
    @ devilsadvokat:

    What is the difference if he knew or not??? the point is if he had a concept of Punishment and Death Huh?
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #22 - December 24, 2011, 12:12 AM
    why even have a stupid forbidden tree in the first place!
    This would suggest that adam et al were imperfect beings.
    why would gawd create an imperfect being, to begin with?

    So... where in the koran does it say god is perfect?   Roll Eyes
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #23 - December 24, 2011, 12:19 AM
    @ J&T:

    I don't know, that is what I have been asking myself as well.

    You got any explanation ?
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #24 - December 24, 2011, 12:27 AM
    Quote from: sturmgewehr on December 24, 2011, 12:19 AM
    @ J&T:

    I don't know, that is what I have been asking myself as well.

    You got any explanation ?


    damn right I have an explanation!   Cheesy

    unfortunately, not one any scholar would find valid.

    I think the generic response to this for all abrahamic
    faiths is this.


    wait for it......














    its a test.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #25 - December 24, 2011, 12:42 AM
    I heard some people say that the Christian God is not Omniscient.

    J&T

    yeah but then what is the point of the Test if u know the result of the test in advance.

    I have seen some religious people attempt explaining that but can't remember their arguments to well.
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #26 - December 24, 2011, 02:03 AM
    thats not true... read the following scriptures:

    Psalm 147:5

    Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
    his understanding has no limit.

    1 John 3:19-20

    By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    there is more but i couldnt be bothered lol.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #27 - December 24, 2011, 08:10 PM
    Quran copied the Bible which copied from the Old Testament which was made by the Jews. And with each version it was changed to suit the whoever. The Jews also believe that God knew that Adam was going to take the fruit and this is all part of his master plan.  Roll Eyes

    I personally believe the whole story is BS. Logically you can't punish someone who does not know what is bad and what is good. It would be like beating a 2 year old for breaking a glass. It's cruel.

    Second if God knew all this was going to happen, it was completely pointless. If man was meant to have free-will God would have just given it to them and just sent them to earth. No need for this whole snake forbidden fruit BS.

    Also I don't believe God created the Garden of Eden, because if Adam and Eve were NOT meant to eat the fruit, God would have made it so, instead of putting it in plain site then punishing them.

    ALSO! God was a liar when the snake told the truth. Since when does Satan tells the truth? How is the snake made out to be the enemy in all this? If 1. It was meant to happen. AND 2. The snake did not lie to Eve, he tempted her yes, but for their benefit to not be sheep to God.

    The whole story of Genesis is not logical at all. And then when you say this, the obvious response, i well it was all meant to happen and God knows best.
    ***~Church is where bad people go to hide~***
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #28 - December 24, 2011, 08:38 PM
    yes sakura... the other best answer besides its a test.  God knows best  Cheesy

    so then back to the adam family... you have adam, eve, cain and seth.
    alrighty then... it goes on to say cain got married.  again, i ask
    TO WHO!  They were the only human beings on the planet, right?? RIGHT??

    then there was noahs flood.  Now you are back to only had 8 human beings. 

    THIS NEVER SET WELL WITH ME AS A XIAN! LOL  No amount of theological
    babble could convince me this is the way it really happened lol.
    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: Adam and Eve in Islam.
     Reply #29 - December 24, 2011, 08:43 PM
    Quran copied the Bible which copied from the Old Testament which was made by the Jews.   -- incorrect, they copied the Jews directly... read up on geography and disputes at the time, one could argue that Islam really just started out as a sect of Judaism which was then reject by the Jews hence the intense hatred between the religions
    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

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