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Theme Changer

 Topic: on the edge..

 (Read 9939 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • on the edge..
     OP - December 26, 2011, 02:19 AM

    I have plane tickets booked to see my boyfriend in California on new year's eve. I have been struggling for over two months on how to break the news to my parents. I tried to approach the subject gradually, trying to gauge their reaction. I tried asking what they would think if i went to see my boyfriend. Of course they thought it would be inappropriate... but after two three discussions they got tired of going in circles and told me flat out, that whatever i do, i will do. it's my life and they can't stop me, but that if i decide to go, it means that they hold no value to me, that i do not care for their wishes and that i shouldn't expect anything from them because they can't expect anything from me anymore. apparently that breaks our good relationship. that easy.

    part of me is torn, its like the ultimate emotional blackmail, so say that you following your path means you don't respect us. I knew this would be hard, but part of me had always hoped that they'd come to an understanding. They keep saying how what they want most is my happiness. They just cannot accept me spending a couple of days with him before we are actually married... even know people from our family have done very similar things. my uncle dated this Chinese woman before they married, my cousin is currently living with his Canadian girlfriend and they are not yet married... but bringing those up wont help, its still wrong in my parents mind.

    part of me is afraid for my family, as my mother suffers from depression and my dad is under alot of stress. I truly do not wish to hurt them, but I honestly cannot control how they deal with their pain. I'm scared for my brothers, I'm scared for any peace my household has, but I am at all loss for what to do.

    This whole ordeal has had me so torn i've been suffering constant panic attacks and had to get a leave from work. i cannot sleep at night. i dread the days to come. i wish there was some way to protect everyone...



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #1 - December 26, 2011, 02:22 AM

    Guilt trip 101.

    "Work without hope draws nectar in a sieve, and hope without an object cannot live." -Coleridge

    http://sinofgreed.wordpress.com/
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #2 - December 29, 2011, 05:23 AM

    OK... I told them.

    I told them I bought the ticket and my flight leaves Saturday morning.


    They were not happy.

    They said a lot of hurtful things, as expected.

    They said I have a personality defect that makes me not listen to anyone but myself.

    They said that I have always been the one dictating my life to them.

    They said that maybe they were wrong to be so 'liberal' with me. That they should have just been strict like every other muslim parent.

    I stayed mostly quiet, told them that I did not want to argue. There is no point in that.

    I cried... a lot. My brother held my hand through the whole thing and for a while after too.


    My boyfriend is questioning whether its worth this trouble for me to go see him. He wishes he had never asked me, but there's no way he could have known how hard this would be.


    I wish I didn't have to leave my room for the next 48 hrs....



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #3 - December 29, 2011, 05:36 AM

     far away hug

    Hang in there Smiley Keep in mind that all the nasty things your parents said reflect not on you but on their own parochial upbringing.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #4 - December 29, 2011, 05:42 AM

    Sorry to hear this but your parents will think this way because they are first generation Canadians. Despite leaving Pakistan they will still have Pakistani mind and it's not their fault they were raised that way. Have they asked you about arranged marriage or anything like that? Is the relationship with your boyfriend serious, and do you plan on marrying him in the future?
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #5 - December 29, 2011, 05:54 AM

    I do plan on marrying him. and they know it is serious... They are fine with it actually. It is hard especially for my mother to accept a non pakistani man to marry her daughter but she is willing if i am happy...

    The only thing theyre upset about is me going to see him before we are actually married...

    My boyfriend says he understands if i cant go, that he doesnt want to cause problems with my family. He is also willing to convert to Islam even though i dont believe in it...



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #6 - December 29, 2011, 05:57 AM

    why dont  you guys get married islamically?

    i know a few guys have done that in my community...its pretty fucking clear that they are just dating but in the eyes of the muslim set of parents they are "married"


    it means nothing and you can tell your bf if he believes in that kind of shit he can say talaq and you are divorced. lol

    I wish parents everywhere could remove their veil of religion and see their kids for whom they actually are.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #7 - December 29, 2011, 06:01 AM

    I am willing to go through that if it makes them happy...

    but i have not seen my boyfriend in a year and a half, i miss him terribly and it is incredibly unfair that I shouldn't be able to see him when others in my family and circle or family friends have done pretty much the same.



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #8 - December 29, 2011, 06:02 AM

    i know i sound like a winy teenager but this is the first time in my life am standing up for myself. should i back down?  wacko



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #9 - December 29, 2011, 06:07 AM

    Your parents are reacting just like most desi parents do. However, I am pleasantly surprised that your brother is supporting you through this, often the brothers take the parents side when a daughter gets a boyfriend and then atrocities in the name of 'honour' are committed.

    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #10 - December 29, 2011, 06:13 AM

    my brothers are all younger and sensible kids for the most part, which i am thankful for. i'm pretty sure they will be going through similar things in the future, as unfortunate as it sounds...



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #11 - December 29, 2011, 06:13 AM

    I am willing to go through that if it makes them happy...

    but i have not seen my boyfriend in a year and a half, i miss him terribly and it is incredibly unfair that I shouldn't be able to see him when others in my family and circle or family friends have done pretty much the same.


    How come?, if you dont mind me asking

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #12 - December 29, 2011, 06:16 AM

    I do plan on marrying him. and they know it is serious... They are fine with it actually. It is hard especially for my mother to accept a non pakistani man to marry her daughter but she is willing if i am happy...

    The only thing theyre upset about is me going to see him before we are actually married...

    My boyfriend says he understands if i cant go, that he doesnt want to cause problems with my family. He is also willing to convert to Islam even though i dont believe in it...


    I don't understand why they're upset when it's a non-Muslim guy. When can you marry him? This is probably some shitty advice, but can you just Skype video chat with him instead?  

  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #13 - December 29, 2011, 06:36 AM

    How come?, if you dont mind me asking



    he lives in across the continent, and neither of us had the time or the money to see each other until recently. On the pas occasions he had always come to see me, this time i wanted to be the one to visit him.



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #14 - December 29, 2011, 06:42 AM

    I don't understand why they're upset when it's a non-Muslim guy. When can you marry him? This is probably some shitty advice, but can you just Skype video chat with him instead?  





    i know.. i know.. this is fucking hard.... throwing away nearly $1000 is also fucking hard  wacko



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #15 - December 29, 2011, 07:47 AM

    OK..

    I want to ask my parents flat out, that #1 - if I do not go see my boyfriend now, and wait for him to come see me here, will that help them feel better? yes? ok...


    #2 - will they understand that my values and opinions have not/cannot be changed, and that I am only willing to do this for their sake.

    Will it help them accept me for who I am any more than they do now?

    Will they owe me some kind of respect for putting my own beliefs and feelings aside for them?

    Will they be willing to compromise on our future arrangements if I agree with them now?


    If yes.... I won't go.



    But if my not going doesn't change how they feel about me, then there is no reason for me to squash my own sense of morality for them.



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #16 - December 29, 2011, 07:54 AM

    i know i sound like a winy teenager but this is the first time in my life am standing up for myself. should i back down?  wacko

    No. Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #17 - December 29, 2011, 11:05 AM

    I'm with Os, don't back down.

    They know that emotional blackmail works on you, they must do since you are actually trying to find a way NOT to do this anymore, you are considering compromising when really you shouldn't have to.

    Everything they said is what they say now, if you go and see your boyfriend, they will eventually get over it, believe me they will. 

    They sound alright, reasonable even.  The whole emotional blackmail is nowhere near as bad as the physical danger some parents might feel they have to inflict if their daughter was to express the desires you are expressing now.

    If all they can do is display a 'disappointment' that really they will get over pretty quickly, then I reckon you should stick to your guns and go see your boyfriend.

    I know its not easy being the one that hurts people, but you are not hurting them as much as they are dramatising it.  go for it.  and good luck.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #18 - December 29, 2011, 12:51 PM

    This reads as if emotional blackmail is the normal way of behaving - that this is not just one family's strange attitudes.

    What is that about? 

    I think it was Eric Berne who wrote Games People Play. 

    Are Adult Adult relationships forbidden or something?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #19 - December 29, 2011, 01:33 PM

    I'm with Berbs and Os on this one. Don't back down, they WILL get over it. Your parents sound pretty cool by my standards, and I understand it hurts you to hurt them (even if it's temporary) but fuck, woman! A year and a half! That's a long time to go without seeing your other half (longest I had to go was nine months and it almost drove me to insanity).

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #20 - December 29, 2011, 01:59 PM

    you two are crazy. i can never not see my significant other for more than a couple of months. but i guess that's why i've never been able to sustain a long-distance relationship.

    but anyway, see him. i know it feels really bad that you're hurting your parents, and believe me, we've all been there. we all wish we can make our parents happy while being happy ourselves, it's part of being ex-muslim. but i'm sure you know as much as everyone else that you're not doing anything wrong, you just wanna live your life. and it's your right.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #21 - December 29, 2011, 02:05 PM

    Well, knowing that it's only temporary helps bear the long periods of time without seeing each other. But there are limits. And yeah, stay away from long-distance stuff, if you can Smiley

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #22 - December 29, 2011, 02:40 PM

    don't back down. but do mention the islamic marriage part to your parents.

    I wish parents everywhere could remove their veil of religion and see their kids for whom they actually are.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #23 - December 29, 2011, 04:58 PM

    you two are crazy. i can never not see my significant other for more than a couple of months. but i guess that's why i've never been able to sustain a long-distance relationship.

    but anyway, see him. i know it feels really bad that you're hurting your parents, and believe me, we've all been there. we all wish we can make our parents happy while being happy ourselves, it's part of being ex-muslim. but i'm sure you know as much as everyone else that you're not doing anything wrong, you just wanna live your life. and it's your right.


    That too, hell the longest time i spent in a relationship is almost a year.

    Belladonnasix, its good that your boyfriend is kind enough to even think of converting to Islam out of love, maybe you can consider Islamic marriage as Norabora suggested but what matters most is to do what your heart tells you

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #24 - December 29, 2011, 05:23 PM

    The choice to live the rest of your life as an actual individual of worth or to live the rest of your life as a subservient creature owned by your parents is one you ought to make as early as possible, because if you don't, your parents will make the decision for you, and it seems they already have. Only you can make a change significant enough to break the routine. See it as empowerment rather than a burden. Take control.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #25 - December 29, 2011, 06:58 PM

    But why do the parents not see what they are doing?  I cannot see that as a personal fault - what has happened to them that they are so afraid to allow their young to live? 


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #26 - December 29, 2011, 07:21 PM

    i know i sound like a winy teenager but this is the first time in my life am standing up for myself. should i back down?  wacko


    nope.  dont back down.

    This is the biggest and scariest step for ANYONE.  Not just muslims.  Its called
    adulthood Smiley  I think its harder for those living in muslim households that still
    cling to cultural norms from the old country, but the rush of making your first
    stance of independence is a mind blowing experience!  I hope you have a
    wonderful time with your B/F.  Please let us know how it goes
     far away hug

    When one door of happiness closes, another opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us.
    Helen Keller
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #27 - December 29, 2011, 07:30 PM

    The choice to live the rest of your life as an actual individual of worth or to live the rest of your life as a subservient creature owned by your parents is one you ought to make as early as possible, because if you don't, your parents will make the decision for you, and it seems they already have. Only you can make a change significant enough to break the routine. See it as empowerment rather than a burden. Take control.

    Very well said. I really want to move out amicably so I can grow up and experience an independent life, but I just don't know how to do it yet.  015
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #28 - December 29, 2011, 09:51 PM

    Holy crap, my brother sent me this last night...

    Quote
    I know you're still thinking about it, so I hope you take your time to think of what you should do on your own, but I wanted to share with you an analogy I came up with just to give you something to consider and relate to your own situation. It’s pretty long, but I gave it thought, and just keep in mind it’s just my own thoughts, *not* what you should do per se.

    There are both religious, moral, and religious+moral people in the world, and they behave in different ways, yet share similar flaws. Looking at the religious/cultural person, what is right and what is wrong is dependent on what is written in "the book". Personal consideration does not count, and this false "morality" is already written in a book to follow. You can easily see why always strictly following the book is wrong because, let's say eating pork is ALWAYS forbidden, no matter what. Let's say you were stuck on a deserted island with nothing to eat but pigs. The truly devout religious person (priest) would not eat the pork, and while he may have been religiously correct in his actions, the consequence is that he is left starving.

    Although it's harder to see, a similar predicament can arise for the devout moral person. Let's say you are the newly elected ruler of a country, and it is the country's long standing belief that criminals should be hanged for their wrongdoing. As a moral person, you believe this is wrong, and you also have every right and power to stop the hanging. Truth is, even in the face of justice, doing what is "right" doesn't rule out the best outcome.

    1) Let's say you do what's right, and you stop the hanging. You have every legal right to do so, but as the newly elected ruler, this act doesn't look good at all to a society who has encouraged hanging for generations. Your psyche may be satisfied, the victim might be happy, but you will be looked down upon, disliked, and ostracized by your society. The end result saves you the stress, but hurts the ones around you.

    2) Let's say you chose to abide by what is culturally accepted and allow the hanging of criminals. Society has no problem with it, they praise you for being a good ruler, but your psyche is under major stress because you are going against what you personally believe is MORALLY *wrong*. The end result is while the people around you are happy with what you chose to do, you end up hurting yourself.

    One might argue that you should do what's best for society (the people around you). There are two things wrong with this view:

    -Realistically speaking, one person can only take so much stress, and it isn't fair that you don't follow what you believe.
    -This has to stop eventually. It is IMMORAL to kill without giving second chances. For the sake of the betterment of humanity, it has to stop somewhere. Someone has to do it.

    Someone has to do it, right, but that act done bluntly and outright won't revolutionize anything, and wouldn’t last as ruler because nobody would like you. Revolutionary choice gone to waste.

    Now, I'll pause the analogy and explain how I think this relates to you. You are the ruler of yourself, and you have every legal right to go see Skot, and your parents aren't stopping or forbidding you. You are the ruler.

    If you follow option 1), the morally correct path, while your actions are just in every way, there are social consequences that will stay. There will be family tension, there will be stress on your parents, and it could go as far as making them (and yourself especially) look bad in eyes of other family members. So hasty decisions, regardless of moral right, will have some negative consequence on the family.

    If you follow option 2), the culturally correct path, you can see why this is bad because while there is no family tension, there is stress because you're rushing your marriage and forced to follow a custom you don't believe in. You're going against your *self* and it's hurting you. Negative consequences on your self.

    This is why I believe in realistic situations, the moral choice and religious/cultural choice are both *wrong* in the sense that it will just make things worse for someone, one way or another. The third choice, the decision you should make in my opinion, is the wise choice. The compromise between the two consequences. Some way that will let you live happily, and at least progress the cultural view to something more morally acceptable. The wise choice is really hard to rule out, and I'm guessing that's where you're stuck right now; what to choose so that the least harm is inflicted, and the morally just choice is made and accepted to an extent by the cultural view. It seems like it's one way or another; you go, or you don't. You allow the hanging, or you stop it, but you have to think of some way that will make your parents reconsider their cultural norm and render your choice, while not FULLY acceptable, at least PARTIALLY accepted.

    Returning to the analogy for an example, would arguing with the people help at all? Would explaining to them in your best, most sincere and logical reasoning persuade them to allow the banning of hanging and to see that you're only doing what's just? In this case, it won't do much good because it's just been something everyone has accepted for so long, and it's hard to change that massive ideology. People don't want, and will hardly every accept, a drastic change. You need to change their perspective by taking smaller steps. ***Consider that they ARE human, and no matter how culturally inclined they are, *they are still people with morals and feelings*. Maybe you can manipulate that? Maybe that will get them to understand what you are trying to say better.

    You decide that, *before deciding* on the hanging, the criminal will go to each person's house, act their best behavior, and do good deeds for every family. Once done, you finally announce that you have chosen not to hang the criminal. Some will still be upset with you. In fact, they may all still be upset to a certain extent. But they have so much less to complain about because the criminal did get punished and society did get a chance to see that he was a nice, sorry person, who did good deeds for them. As human beings, they'll find it at least just a little bit uncomfortable to kill a man like that, even if he was a criminal (even if they don't admit it).

    Here, you've created something in psychology what is similar to cognitive dissonance. The dissonance or "lack of harmony" between the culture and moral values clash here. As a cultural person, you want the criminal dead, as a human, you kinda like them. Even if the cultural side is far stronger because it's been around longer, there's the little voice inside their head now telling them to reconsider. Repeat this with many criminals, and in time, this is how the cultural norm will disappear, because THIS, this dissonance of the mind, between the cultural and moral little voices in their head, will get them to think rationally about what SHOULD be done, and why you could be right, in some way.

    You can't stop family tension, you're right about that, but you should *try* and find a compromise to satisfy yourself and the family, even if it's tedious and silly (criminals doing community service at everyone's houses!).

    You can think of your own ways to alleviate some stress on your parents. Some of my suggestions include having him visit us first, get on good terms with him, and *then* announce that you're going to visit for a while. If you go immediately, it doesn't matter what you argue to everyone, the cultural norm rules out, and there WILL be social conflict and tension between you and your parents, I can almost guarantee that. It could last just that week or they could be upset with you for years, but it will happen. If you wait it out, they'll at least see that you're listening to them for a change and won't be able to call your decision "stubborn" because you let go of your desire and listened to them. If you go after he visits, that's giving them a chance to see him, to show there's nothing to worry about, and if they still disagree, the human side of them will whisper "but it's only fair, what exactly is wrong with this now that you know she's dating a very kind man?". They won't even be able to complain to people outside our family because they know people outside won't see an issue; they'll see this as an acceptable compromise and will find our cultural norm to be weird, senseless and unfair. This dissonance might help alleviate the tension, which is INEVITABLE, but in this way, much less severe.

    You can take it a step further and consider something more ridiculous, but acceptable, for the sake of the family. Our parents are only against you sleeping in the same house as him. Maybe you could find a cheap hotel and manage a stay for several nights only, splitting the price between you, Skot, and our parents, so it won't be too expensive. If they, and yourself are up for it, then go for it! Yes it's insanely silly, but you can see it could work, and given the fact that it *is* so ridiculous, think of how embarrassing it would be for our parents as now THEY look like the stubborn ones who won't let go of a cultural norm. This is even stronger dissonance in their mind because it's so much more uncomfortable.

    Just consider what YOU want, and what THEY want. If you just want to see where Skot lives and get to know his family and friends, but don’t care where you sleep, and if our parents feel this exact same way, but care ONLY about where you sleep, then find a way to change that ONE factor that’s causing the whole problem. This is where you have to let go of what is “right” for the sake of a better outcome. Don’t change what you believe, but act according to what would be more acceptable if it isn’t too big of a deal. Step back and try to see that the issue really might not be that big, if you just make a compromise. Remember that by choosing any of these alternatives or coming up with your own, you are NOT changing your PERSONAL values. The wise decision retains their personal morality, but their action is *wise* in the sense that it results in the LEAST amount of negative consequences. Moral decisions are for justice, cultural decisions are for behavioral/social acceptance, but wise decisions are for the *best* result, the least harm, the best way to revolutionize or change things for the better.

    Just to end it now, you need to either change your own perspective, or you need to change theirs. I don't mean to criticize either of you, but they're like religious closed-minded priest that only accepts what "has been" for so long, and you're like a feminist/social movement/etc who fights for her right, for what is JUSTICE, who will only accept that which is just and fair. (Sorry for the really extreme metaphors, I just want you to get an idea of what I'm trying to say). Someone needs to turn around and change their perspective. That's how the best can come out of this, and it's the only way justice can be brought in a more permanent state. I already told you that a few generations form now this cultural norm will be gone. While unfortunate, you have to live with what is today and find a way around it, and avoid hasty decisions that *would* make you look like a revolutionist, but a *bad* one in the eyes of the culturally fixated. My advice is just that; make a wise decision and compromise. Both groups get hurt, but at least they can heal afterwards, slowly, but surely.

    Your decision is entirely your own and I won't judge you for whatever you end up choosing, please don't worry at all about me or what I'll think! This is just to get you thinking, not deciding. Good luck with you decision! Goodnight!



    He pretty much wrote a fucking essay about his views on my situation, but this is why I love him <3



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: on the edge..
     Reply #29 - December 29, 2011, 09:57 PM

    Quote
    1) Let's say you do what's right, and you stop the hanging. You have every legal right to do so, but as the newly elected ruler, this act doesn't look good at all to a society who has encouraged hanging for generations. Your psyche may be satisfied, the victim might be happy, but you will be looked down upon, disliked, and ostracized by your society. The end result saves you the stress, but hurts the ones around you.

    2) Let's say you chose to abide by what is culturally accepted and allow the hanging of criminals. Society has no problem with it, they praise you for being a good ruler, but your psyche is under major stress because you are going against what you personally believe is MORALLY *wrong*. The end result is while the people around you are happy with what you chose to do, you end up hurting yourself.

    Your brother is a pretty smart guy. Afro

    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
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