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Theme Changer

 Topic: Esperanto!

 (Read 10377 times)
  • 12 3 4 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Esperanto!
     OP - January 02, 2012, 12:41 PM

    So I was talking to another CEMBer, and the topic of Esperanto came up, and they mentioned that they hadn't heard of it all, so I decided to create a thread about la Internacia Lingvo (the original name for Esperanto).

    I've been learning Esperanto for a while on this wonderful website, and I've gotta say, I'm completely in love with the language and the culture! For those who don't know, Esperanto is a language that was started by a Russian Jew called Zamenhof more than a century ago to serve as a neutral tool of international communication. Here are some of the things the site has to say about Esperanto:

    Quote
    What is Esperanto?

    It's a language that is particularly useful for international communication.

    Important traits of Esperanto

    International: Esperanto is most useful for communicating among people of diverse nations who do not have a common mother tongue.
    Neutral: It doesn't belong to one people or country, so it works as a neutral language.
    Equal: When you use Esperanto, you feel more equal from a linguistic standpoint than when, for example, you speak Spanish with a native Spanish speaker.
    Relatively easy: Thanks to the structure of Esperanto, it's usually much easier to master than other foreign languages.
    Living: Esperanto evolves and lives just like other languages, and it can be used to express the most varied facets of human thought and emotion.

    We created this website because we like using Esperanto. Everyday we use it to communicate with friends in different countries and continents, mostly online. We find Esperanto to be a good tool for making new friends and working together with people who speak different native languages.


    Quote
    The idea of Esperanto is: the foundation of a neutral language will help break down barriers between people and help everyone see each other as neighbors. [L. Zamenhof, 1912]

    The basic idea of Esperanto is about tolerance and respect for people of diverse nations and cultures. Communication is indeed the essential part of understanding each other, and if that communication happens through a neutral language, that can help the feeling that we 'meet' on equal grounds and help create respect for one another.
    As an ordinary speaker of Esperanto, you don't often think about the "foundation of a neutral language" and those kinds of fancy expressions. You just enjoy having the ability to express yourself freely in conversations with people from other countries and cultures.


    Quote
    There are many ways we use Esperanto. The most common ways are listed below.

    Travelling
    It's very interesting to travel 'in' Esperanto. You can stay in the home of other Esperanto speakers (usually for free) and in this way you get an insider's view of the country/region. The Pasporta Servo book, which has addresses of hosts in more than 80 countries, is published every year.

    International meetings
    Different kinds of meetings regularly go on in Esperanto. Some examples are: Internacia Junulara Kongreso (International Youth Congress, a meeting with generally 400 young people), Education@Interreto seminars (seminars about the Internet), Universala Kongreso (Universal Congress, the largest convention, normally with more than 1500 participants) and the Junulara E-Semajno (Youth Esperanto Week, a large New Year's Party in Germany or Poland).

    Online
    If you like to use e-mail, instant messengers or newsgroups, then you will have plenty of possibilities to use Esperanto to talk about anything and everything. In fact, the Internet and Esperanto go well together!


    Or for those who prefer videos, there's this great series of introductory videos about Esperanto:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yiQHymMRAQ

    Now, while I'm not exactly a veteran Esperantist, I've been reading quite a bit about the language and the culture, so if you have any questions, shoot! I'll try my best to answer them!

    And, once you learn the language, maybe you can join the International Atheist Esperanto Organization Tongue

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #1 - January 02, 2012, 12:43 PM

    Quote
    What is Esperanto?
    It's a language that is particularly useful for international communication.


    No, it isn't  Wink

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #2 - January 02, 2012, 12:55 PM

    It actually is -- a lot of the people who speak Esperanto don't really speak English very well, so without Esperanto communication with them would be impossible at worst, rudimentary at best.

    Here's a map showing a small subset of Esperanto speakers, the ones who signed up for Pasporta Servo, which allows you to stay for free in an Esperantist's home if you visit their country:

    http://pasportaservo.danyuy.com/monda-mapo

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #3 - January 02, 2012, 01:13 PM

    Meh, I wouldn't feel inferior if I was communicating with someone in their own native tongue and learning some neutral language instead wouldn't make me feel more equal.  Seems like an OTT fad.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #4 - January 02, 2012, 01:26 PM

    So I was talking to another CEMBer, and the topic of Esperanto came up, and they mentioned that they hadn't heard of it all, so I decided to create a thread about la Internacia Lingvo (the original name for Esperanto).


    *ahem* That would be me. tyvm  Tongue

    Life is what happens to you while you're staring at your smartphone.

    Eternal Sunshine of the Religionless Mind
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #5 - January 02, 2012, 01:30 PM

    It's not really about feeling inferior, it's about being, in a sense, inferior. A person who speaks English as a second language, for example, and a native speaker are most often not on equal ground, when it comes to things like getting a job, handling negotiations, expressing oneself confidently and with nuance and precision.

    Plus, as they mentioned, most Esperantists don't even think about these things -- truth is, when you learn Esperanto, you become part of a one- to two-million large international community with its own culture and heritage, and for many, that's reason enough to learn the language. (In fact, there's two schools of thought on this -- the finvenkistoj believe that Esperanto will one day, as was originally intended, become the universal second language, and the raŭmismoj who consider that unlikely, but believe that the Esperanto community "has itself become a culture worthy of preservation and promotion for its own sake.")

    At any rate, it's definitely not a "fad". It's more than a hundred years old, and the number of speakers is growing faster now because of the Internet.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #6 - January 02, 2012, 01:31 PM

    *ahem* That would be me. tyvm  Tongue


    Haha, indeed Tongue What would I ever do without you, my dear Andromeda!

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #7 - January 02, 2012, 01:38 PM

    It's not really about feeling inferior, it's about being, in a sense, inferior. A person who speaks English as a second language, for example, and a native speaker are most often not on equal ground, when it comes to things like getting a job, handling negotiations, expressing oneself confidently and with nuance and precision.


    Knowing this new language won't help them with those things right now either.  Esperanto is not a part of the job market, it is not the language used for negotiations at large.  You are still going to be 'in a sense' inferior at the business table.

    Quote

    Plus, as they mentioned, most Esperantists don't even think about these things -- truth is, when you learn Esperanto, you become part of a one- to two-million large international community with its own culture and heritage, and for many, that's reason enough to learn the language. (In fact, there's two schools of thought on this -- the finvenkistoj believe that Esperanto will one day, as was originally intended, become the universal second language, and the raŭmismoj who consider that unlikely, but believe that the Esperanto community "has itself become a culture worthy of preservation and promotion for its own sake.")

    At any rate, it's definitely not a "fad". It's more than a hundred years old, and the number of speakers is growing faster now because of the Internet.


    We'll see.   Smiley  I still think it's a language with no purpose other than to exist as an interesting language to learn for its own sake, and doubt it will ever become the language of power, but you never know. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #8 - January 02, 2012, 01:57 PM

    And it's not such a bad deal if you get to stay at people's homes abroad free of charge just because you can speak it Tongue

    It's also pretty easy to learn, it doesn't take anywhere near the same energy you'd have to put into learning Russian, or Chinese (or even easier languages like French and Spanish.) From wiki: "Various educators have estimated that Esperanto can be learned in anywhere from one quarter to one twentieth the amount of time required for other languages." But it's also very flexible and expressive, as I've come to see.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #9 - January 02, 2012, 02:02 PM

    The more I read Harakaat's posts about it, the more I'm convinced it's just a hippy cult.

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #10 - January 02, 2012, 03:24 PM

    It's not really about feeling inferior, it's about being, in a sense, inferior. A person who speaks English as a second language, for example, and a native speaker are most often not on equal ground, when it comes to things like getting a job, handling negotiations, expressing oneself confidently and with nuance and precision. (snip)


    In the case of Esperanto or Volapük you make a level playing field by handicapping all parties. Besides, the language is difficult to speak properly for persons who already have knowledge of Germanic and Romanic languages.

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #11 - January 02, 2012, 03:25 PM

    The more I read Harakaat's posts about it, the more I'm convinced it's just a hippy cult.


     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #12 - January 02, 2012, 03:28 PM

    The more I read Harakaat's posts about it, the more I'm convinced it's just a hippy cult.


    The humorous nature of this post aside, there are no ideologies associated with Esperanto (except perhaps that of having an IAL.)

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #13 - January 02, 2012, 03:30 PM

    In the case of Esperanto or Volapük you make a level playing field by handicapping all parties. Besides, the language is difficult to speak properly for persons who already have knowledge of Germanic and Romanic languages.


    ... what? What you just said is the exact opposite of what is true, so I really have no idea what you're trying to say. And Volapük is very different from Esperanto, linguistically.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #14 - January 02, 2012, 03:35 PM

    Esperanto is a mixture of Germanic, Romanic and slavic words, with maybe some Greek. In reading Esperanto I can puzzle most words together, but it is very confusing which stem to use.

    Religion is organized superstition
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #15 - January 02, 2012, 03:36 PM

    Have you taken any courses?

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #16 - January 02, 2012, 03:40 PM

    How many languages do you speak harakaat?
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #17 - January 02, 2012, 03:45 PM

    Depends on whether you consider the varieties of Arabic to be separate languages, as most linguists do, or not. 4 if you don't, 6 if you do.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #18 - January 02, 2012, 03:48 PM

    This beats Esperanto:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua

    I can understand a text in Interlingua without having ever studied it.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #19 - January 02, 2012, 03:49 PM

    All I know is when I read the title of this thread I am overcome with the urge to put on some glasses and a cloak, pull out my wand and fight Voldermort.

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #20 - January 02, 2012, 03:51 PM

    This beats Esperanto:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua

    I can understand a text in Interlingua without having ever studied it.


    Interlingua has different goals from Esperanto. Try producing a text in Interlingua.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #21 - January 02, 2012, 03:51 PM

    All I know is when I read the title of this thread I am overcome with the urge to put on some glasses and a cloak, pull out my wand and fight Voldermort.


    LOL Tongue

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #22 - January 02, 2012, 03:54 PM

    Depends on whether you consider the varieties of Arabic to be separate languages, as most linguists do, or not. 4 if you don't, 6 if you do.

    Impressive. Out of curiosity - which are the 6 languages that you speak?
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #23 - January 02, 2012, 03:54 PM

    Interlingua has different goals from Esperanto. Try producing a text in Interlingua.

    To me, it's probably as difficult as producing a text in Esperanto :|

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #24 - January 02, 2012, 03:57 PM

    LOL, you can't say something like that a priori! The fact of the matter is, Interlingua was designed with ease of comprehension in mind, Esperanto was designed with ease of learning in mind.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #25 - January 02, 2012, 03:59 PM

    Impressive. Out of curiosity - which are the 6 languages that you speak?


    - Algerian Arabic
    - Modern Standard Arabic
    - Levantine Arabic
    - English
    - French
    - Esperanto (yeah, I can pretty much communicate in it now)

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #26 - January 02, 2012, 04:04 PM

    No.

    Esperanto was designed for ease of learning from an almost language neutral standpoint.
    Interlingua was designed for ease of comprehension from a few selected natural languages.

    The result is that the grammar and the vocabulary of Interlingua seems so similar to Romance languages that, at least to me, it seems just as complex as Esperanto, if not less.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #27 - January 02, 2012, 04:19 PM

    No.

    Esperanto was designed for ease of learning from an almost language neutral standpoint.
    Interlingua was designed for ease of comprehension from a few selected natural languages.

    The result is that the grammar and the vocabulary of Interlingua seems so similar to Romance languages that, at least to me, it seems just as complex as Esperanto, if not less.


    Again, the problem with your analysis is that you haven't actually tried learning Esperanto. If you had, you'd have noticed that in 95% of everyday speech, only 500 base morphemes are used. Using of a flexible and innovative system of suffixes and affixes, you can create new words from these. With Interlingua, you have to keep track of all the words, and in which form they appear (for example, you might feel like writing "developmento" when the correct word in Interlingua is "disveloppamento", you might remember "distachate" as something closer to the English "detached" or the French "detaché"). In Esperanto, as soon as you learn the word for "new", nova, you automatically know the word for "old", malnova. Also, you should keep in mind that, if you speak one of the Romance languages, you're one of the lucky few -- only around 15% of the people in the world speak a Romance language.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #28 - January 02, 2012, 05:16 PM

    Quote
    What is Esperanto?

    It's a language that is particularly useful for international communication.

    -- truth is, when you learn Esperanto, you become part of a one- to two-million large international community --

    World population: getting on for seven billion.

    Number of Esperanto speakers: (optimistically) two million.

    Conclusion: Esperanto is a language that is particularly useful for international communication about 0.03% of the time.

    After a whole century of use, that's impressive. Smiley

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Esperanto!
     Reply #29 - January 02, 2012, 05:20 PM

    In Esperanto, as soon as you learn the word for "new", nova, you automatically know the word for "old", malnova.

    Sorry, but that's tragic. If you want to take things from Latin, malnova would mean "bad new", not "old".

    Also, knowing such words depends on having a grounding in certain other languages. For someone who was raised to speak (for instance) Thai, or other tonal languages like Chinese, learning Esperanto would not be as easy as learning another hypothetical language that was designed to provide international communication for speakers of Asian languages. IOW, Esperanto is very clearly designed by and for Europeans.

    Quote
    Also, you should keep in mind that, if you speak one of the Romance languages, you're one of the lucky few -- only around 15% of the people in the world speak a Romance language.

    Why lucky?

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
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