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 Topic: Atheism Is Not A Belief

 (Read 12218 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Atheism Is Not A Belief
     OP - January 20, 2012, 11:04 AM
    This is somewhat of a rant.

    Having debated religion in numerous forums, I find it quite astonishing how theists will go out of their way to label atheism as some sort of belief system even when the majority of atheists debating them continue to assert that they simply lack belief in theistic claims as opposed to making illogical counter-claims or conflating atheism with a worldview.  It's as if theists feel better about themselves that they are somehow not the only ones who hold on to unsubstantiated beliefs.  Or maybe some just can't comprehend the notion of lacking belief.

    Another common and frustrating trait is the misconception that atheism and agnosticism are mutually exclusive.  They are not.  Atheism deals with belief while agnosticism relates to knowledge.  An agnostic-atheist is someone who does not believe in theistic claims nor claims to know what is beyond current knowledge.

    Am I justified in my frustration over this or is there something I'm missing?
    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #1 - January 20, 2012, 11:25 AM
    Atheism says nothing about what you are, only what you're not. It doesn't say anything about an individual's beliefs, only that belief in gods don't feature amongst them.

    Only those belonging to a particular creed seem to insist that those who do not belong to it, or reject it, are a collective sharing a common belief or agenda.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #2 - January 20, 2012, 11:40 AM
    Atheism is a belief. Not a belief system, though.
    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #3 - January 20, 2012, 11:42 AM
    No it isn't.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #4 - January 20, 2012, 11:42 AM
    Quote from: Stuff on January 20, 2012, 11:40 AM
    Atheism is a belief.

    The only thing that all atheists have in common is the lack of belief in theistic claims.

    Lacking belief is not a belief.
    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #5 - January 20, 2012, 11:49 AM
    Quote from: Ishina on January 20, 2012, 11:42 AM
    No it isn't.


    Pretty sure it is.
    It's a belief in the absence of something.
    Have you heard the good news? There is no God!
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #6 - January 20, 2012, 11:51 AM
    Nope.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #7 - January 20, 2012, 12:01 PM
    Quote from: arX on January 20, 2012, 11:04 AM
    This is somewhat of a rant.

    I feel your pain.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #8 - January 20, 2012, 12:04 PM
    Oh, Ha!  I feel like going through all 6 pages.  Will it ease my pain?
    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #9 - January 20, 2012, 12:06 PM
    Probably not.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #10 - January 20, 2012, 12:35 PM


    This is a repeat thread.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #11 - January 20, 2012, 12:37 PM
    Besides, this debate is merely semantical.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #12 - January 20, 2012, 12:41 PM
    I think the issue stems not from atheism, but any additional belief you have beyond atheism. For example, if you believe nothing happens when you die and you just rot in the ground, that is a belief. Sorry if this offends anyone.

  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #13 - January 20, 2012, 01:04 PM
    I think what pisses me off about it is the assumption. The idea that you know something about what I believe when I say I'm an atheist. You cannot possibly know what I believe, because *I* don't even know what I believe.

    But I want to talk about me. I like talking about me. I want to have an opportunity to explain my actual beliefs before you jump to your conclusions. To share them and bat them around, to bounce ideas off of each other. Especially in an environment where atheists are misrepresented as spiritually sterile automatons, void of emotion or love and incapable of fully appreciating self-transcending experiences. It annoys me. Because it's so profoundly fucking wrong.

    I can do this with friends. We can chat about the meaning of life and we can arrive at all manner of wonderful, colourful conclusions and speculations. It doesn't require anyone to believe. We can chew over and appreciate ideas in all degrees without having to accept them to any measure of certainty. Without having to declare allegiance to any school of thought or principles. But with strangers who assume to know anything about me except that I'm an atheist, and go on to assume they know everything they need to know about me because I'm an atheist, I have very little patience for. My ego doesn't allow me to tolerate arrogance like that.
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #14 - January 20, 2012, 01:10 PM
    i have tried to explain the subtle but significant difference between lacking a belief in x, and having a belief that x does not exist, so many times.

    Not once has it ever sunk.

    I have added it to my list of 'things that theists just don't get', along with the definition of 'scientific theory', 'agnostic' and a few other things.

    They refuse to understand it. Sometimes, they are with you every step of the way, but right at the end they will entirely forget the conversation that literally just occured
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #15 - January 20, 2012, 01:12 PM
    Atheism is a belief. Its an invention. God is truth. It is natural to believe in God. Spirituality is organic. Whereas it takes effort to believe in the non-existence of God. It is sensible and intelligent to believe in God. Atheists are the ones who spend so much of effort in going their way out to demolish theist claims. Atheism is not a reflex, it is a conditioning, it is a learnt habit, it is a state of mind that is built by those whose mind has boundaries and cannot be perceptive of higher truth.

    There is no such thing as belief in God. Know God or do not. Admit through actual experience and the knowing, or do not. Do not say you know for sure that God does not exist, for how can you establish with absolutely certainty that there definitely is no being who knows everything.

    Atheism is a state of mind. Different people have different natures. Some people are more intelligent than others. Some parts of a subject and some subjects themselves entirely are more complex and advanced than others. Maybe you nor your ancestors have evolved to be able to prode and take deep stabs at the Mysterious. Maybe it is you who lacks the ability to attain awareness and pierce beyond the norm through higher states of consciousness.

    Maybe this thing seems absurd only to you because you cannot understand it. You lack the ability.

    No one loses being unable to taste the sweetness of benign knowledge except themselves. God does not lose. God does not cease to exist.

    You cannot speak with authority. Because you are only you. Your words have meanings only inside your head. And your definition of reason is only valid to you.

    What weight does your opinion hold? If you were eliminated what affect does it have on the cosmos? Does absolute reality alter because of some humans' inability to percieve things to which they have not attuned themselves to?

    The Atheist could be a Theist. The Theist could be an Atheist. What is your state of mind in one place and what is it like in the other?

    The feeling of certainty and righteousness is out of fear of being false. It is due to ego.

    What is the best measure of certainty? Evidence for one thing does not apply to all others. If you demand scientific evidence for God maybe you're not acting on intelligence and being smart, maybe you're the one who is actually stupid.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #16 - January 20, 2012, 01:15 PM
    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #17 - January 20, 2012, 01:16 PM
    Quote from: zoomi on January 20, 2012, 12:41 PM
    I think the issue stems not from atheism, but any additional belief you have beyond atheism. .... Sorry if this offends anyone.

    you are such a nice guy.. why would that offend any one zoomi ??   but when you say this
    Quote
    For example, if you believe nothing happens when you die and you just rot in the ground, that is a belief.

     you must realize here If any atheist says that means,   S/he is not wording it right.   That is NOT a belief but it is a hypothesis.,
     
     " after any and every biological species(including human being)dies it rots in the ground".. that is indeed an observed fact.,

     But if you say/believe/hypothesize  that there is something..some spirit..jin..don ..din etc.,  after the death of species  or person, then you have to work to prove it. Until it is not proven it is an hypothesis.  More importantly people MUST HAVE FREEDOM to hypothesize and to question the hypothesis.

    So any atheist, religionist including islamist like to believe in something  and try to work to prove that belief without hurting the rest of the society physically or financially ., then it should be fine and THEY MUST HAVE FREEDOM to explore their beliefs..

    And my good wishes & happy new year.. Hope to read more wisdom filled nuggets from you..

    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #18 - January 20, 2012, 01:17 PM
    Quote
    Maybe this thing seems absurd only to you because you cannot understand it. You lack the ability.


    this is so funny. it is clearly you who lacks the ability, or perhaps willingness to understand.
    I have literally just told you that there is a "subtle but significant difference between lacking a belief in x, and having a belief that x does not exist"

    But it doesn't sink in does it?  Neither can you negate it in anyway. You don't even have the first idea what I'm talking about do you?

    Quote
    it takes effort to believe in the non-existence of God


    We DO NOT "BELIEVE IN THE NON EXISTENCE OF GOD".  
    Instead, we LACK a belief in the existence of god.

    please tell me how many times you require it explaining. thanks


  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #19 - January 20, 2012, 01:18 PM
    Quote from: zoomi on January 20, 2012, 12:41 PM
    I think the issue stems not from atheism, but any additional belief you have beyond atheism. For example, if you believe nothing happens when you die and you just rot in the ground, that is a belief. Sorry if this offends anyone.

    Then it's best not to assume what I believe just from declaring myself an atheist (and I certainly have never claimed something along the lines of your example).  Not my "issue".

    What I see as the "issue" is the black and white thinking that one must believe in something even when there are gaps in our knowledge.  Is it so hard to stop pretending and just admit that you don't know?  This is the question I find myself asking theists at the end of most of these debates.
    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #20 - January 20, 2012, 01:20 PM
    Quote from: passingaround on January 20, 2012, 01:12 PM
    Atheism is a belief. Its an invention. God is truth. ..

    ...It is natural to believe in God. Spirituality is organic....

     Whereas it takes effort to believe in the non-existence of God. ....

    There is no such thing as belief in God. Know God or do not. ....

    Atheism is a state of mind. .....

    Maybe this thing seems absurd only to you because you cannot understand it. You lack the ability....

    You cannot speak with authority. Because you are only you. ..

    Your words have meanings only inside your head. ..

    And your definition of reason is only valid to you.

    ....If you were eliminated what affect does it have on the cosmos?...

     Does absolute reality alter because of some humans' inability to percieve things to which they have not attuned themselves to?

    The Atheist could be a Theist......   The Theist could be an Atheist.....

     What is your state of mind in one place and what is it like in the other?

    The feeling of certainty and righteousness is out of fear of being false. It is due to ego....

    What is the best measure of certainty?....

     Evidence for one thing does not apply to all others. ....

    If you demand scientific evidence for God maybe you're not acting on intelligence and being smart, maybe you're the one who is actually stupid.

    O.K.....  what a statements...

    you sound like you are riot passingaround. indeed I AM A STUPID.. I start mylife there everyday..lol.. 

    yes sex works.. pornography works ...

    All good.. all good.,

    So what are you passing around dear passingaround?? what kind of gases?? send in to mass spec.. lol..  get them analyzed..

    Any way so what is new in your neck of the world??

    with best wishes
    yeezevee
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #21 - January 20, 2012, 01:20 PM
    I am a Semite. As a Semite, I am the slave of Allah. That is my destiny. My race is the race obedient to the Lord of all Worlds. Anyone who opposes Allah is a racist who cannot respect my culture. And they are hating on the purpose of my existence.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #22 - January 20, 2012, 01:21 PM
    you are a moron.
    there is no nice way to say it.

    can't you send somebody less stupid to represent your religion?
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #23 - January 20, 2012, 01:24 PM
    I am a Semite who wholeheartedly embraces his nature i.e Semitism. It annoys me to see people not obeying Allah. But I realize that Allah did create all of us the same. It would be racist for me not to recognize that non-Semites cannot behave the basic will of Allah to obey Him. So I let people live their lives. Only a Semite such as myself bears the weight of world on his shoulders.
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #24 - January 20, 2012, 01:25 PM
    have you been paid by Mossad to make muslims look stupid?
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #25 - January 20, 2012, 01:25 PM
    Quote from: passingaround on January 20, 2012, 01:20 PM
    I am a Semite. As a Semite, I am the slave of Allah. That is my destiny. My race is the race obedient to the Lord of all Worlds. Anyone who opposes Allah is a racist who cannot respect my culture. And they are hating on the purpose of my existence.

     you are semi naked.. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #26 - January 20, 2012, 01:51 PM
    Religion is superstition. Its an invention. Made up like fairy tales. There is no God and this is the truth. It is natural to not believe in God. All babies are first born atheists. Naturalism is organic. Atheism is peaceful. Whereas it takes effort to believe in the existence of God. It is sensible and intelligent to abandon the belief in God. Religious nutbags are the ones who spend so much of effort in going their way out to convert us to their doctrines. Atheism is a positive reflex, to the absurdity of religious claims, it is a coming to the senses, anyone who studies science and investigates the natural by applying reason and celebrate the wonders of nature without relegating the reason behind the operations that underly natural phenomena as being the work of an invisible hand can only learnt to appreciate the universe properly.

    There is no such thing as belief in the non-existence of God. It is how we all happened to be before the meddlings of clergy and such. Knowledge is only valid if it can be tested out in the real world. It is through scientific methology that knowledge holds merit. Anyone who cherishes his birth as a human and the ability to survey the natural world will not the faintest allow room for religious nonsense.

    Atheism isnt a thing in itself. It is the ideal, healthy mentality one can have. Religion is the work of ignorant men. Done by men at a time when they were unable to explain the phenoma of the natural world adequately. But today we are able to travel from one continent to the other within hours. And we have sent satellites to planets. We cannot have attained these marvellous achievements if were to remain believing in ancient myths.

    To embrace Atheism is to abandon useless lunacies for good.

    Religion has been a cause of tremendous destruction and dividedness amongst humans.

    We only have one life. And we only are a tiny speck in the entire universe. We need to make best use of our lives while we have it instead of fighting over something we cannot prove.

    We dont believe in anything without evidence normally so why should change the rules only when it comes to God?
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #27 - January 20, 2012, 01:52 PM
    Quote from: dr_sloth on January 20, 2012, 01:10 PM
    i have tried to explain the subtle but significant difference between lacking a belief in x, and having a belief that x does not exist, so many times.

    Not once has it ever sunk.

    I have added it to my list of 'things that theists just don't get', along with the definition of 'scientific theory', 'agnostic' and a few other things.

    They refuse to understand it. Sometimes, they are with you every step of the way, but right at the end they will entirely forget the conversation that literally just occured

    Heh that's funny to imagine them getting all adhd on your arse.

    I refuse to believe that so many of them are as thick as they seem.  Like you say, it's simply refusal.
    Against the ruin of the world, there
    is only one defense: the creative act.

    -- Kenneth Rexroth
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #28 - January 20, 2012, 02:00 PM
    Quote from: passingaround on January 20, 2012, 01:51 PM
    Religion is superstition. Its an invention. Made up like fairy tales.

    There is no God and this is the truth. It is natural to not believe in God.

    All babies are first born atheists. Naturalism is organic.

    Atheism is peaceful. Whereas it takes effort to believe in the existence of God. I

    t is sensible and intelligent to abandon the belief in God. Religious nutbags are the ones who spend so much of effort in going their way out to convert us to their doctrines. Atheism is a positive reflex, to the absurdity of religious claims, it is a coming to the senses, anyone who studies science and investigates the natural by applying reason and celebrate the wonders of nature without relegating the reason behind the operations that underly natural phenomena as being the work of an invisible hand can only learnt to appreciate the universe properly.

    There is no such thing as belief in the non-existence of God.

     .....
    Atheism isnt a thing in itself. It is the ideal, healthy mentality one can have.

    Religion is the work of ignorant men.

    ...........
    To embrace Atheism is to abandon useless lunacies for good..........

    Religion has been a cause of tremendous destruction and dividedness amongst humans...............

    We only have one life. And we only are a tiny speck in the entire universe.

    .... We need to make best use of our lives while we have it instead of fighting over something we cannot prove....

    We dont believe in anything without evidence normally so why should change the rules only when it comes to God?...

     Cheesy Cheesy    oh my goodness..

    Some one said., Too much sex or too much masturbation is bad  and the news says   One in five American adults mentally ill in past year

    So dear passingaround., Are you American or living in America for a long time??
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Atheism Is Not A Belief
     Reply #29 - January 20, 2012, 02:03 PM
    Im just sitting here laughing because of how easy it is to write speeches and impress you by just mere word swapping. I'm a Semite, I have a volatile mind. But when I feed you BS, you will love it!
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