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 Topic: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge

 (Read 9936 times)
  • 12 3 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     OP - January 31, 2012, 03:09 PM

    according to many websites, the hindu scriptures say the following:

    Shape of Earth is like an Oblate Spheroid. (Rig VedaXXX. IV. V)

    ‘Earth is flattened at the poles’ (Markandeya Purana 54.12)




     But i haven't been able to find the passages they are referring to.   Where is Rig VedaXXX. IV. V ?
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #1 - January 31, 2012, 03:15 PM

    I lol'd

    Some of the scriptures also say that the Earth was resting on the backs of several huge elephants. ............... The elephants were resting on the back of a very large turtle that was swimming in a sea.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #2 - January 31, 2012, 03:21 PM

    but in comparison to the quran, this is pretty good:



    Srimad Bhagavatam 5.21.8-9


    People living in countries at points diametrically opposite to where the sun is first seen rising will see the sun setting, and if a straight line were drawn from a point where the sun is at midday, the people in countries at the opposite end of the line would be experiencing midnight. Similarly, if people residing where the sun is setting were to go to countries diametrically opposite, they would not see the sun in the same condition.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #3 - January 31, 2012, 03:32 PM

    Its still bullshit and wrong, weather its from Quran or Hindu. Buddhist and Hindu scriptures taught that the earth was flat.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #4 - January 31, 2012, 04:29 PM


    Look mate, you take any esoteric mystical text from the past and you'll be able to project what you want to project onto it.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #5 - January 31, 2012, 04:32 PM

    but in comparison to the quran, this is pretty good:



    Srimad Bhagavatam 5.21.8-9


    People living in countries at points diametrically opposite to where the sun is first seen rising will see the sun setting, and if a straight line were drawn from a point where the sun is at midday, the people in countries at the opposite end of the line would be experiencing midnight. Similarly, if people residing where the sun is setting were to go to countries diametrically opposite, they would not see the sun in the same condition.


    Even if there are aspects that coincide with science that is because they were written in the knowledge of the day and ancient India had a scientific and intellectual tradition, so its not surprising. These texts are man made.

    Now, if you're trying to compete with those who say the projections in the Quran prove it is divinely written by god and not men that is another thing. Because generally speaking, Muslims tend to excel over most in that desperation ploy to prove the unique god-created literalism of their scripture. Competing for the veracity of a religious scripture on this line over another is absurd.





    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #6 - January 31, 2012, 05:12 PM

    I am really interested in this topic as well, a while ago I did a minor research on google, I wanted to find if Hindu scripts and religious texts which ostensibly held any scientific or semi scientific knowledge existed or were somewhere to be found, I didn't do well though, I got bored pretty fast and abandoned that thought.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #7 - January 31, 2012, 05:57 PM

    I am really interested in this topic as well, a while ago I did a minor research on google, I wanted to find if Hindu scripts and religious texts which ostensibly held any scientific or semi scientific knowledge existed or were somewhere to be found, I didn't do well though, I got bored pretty fast and abandoned that thought.

    you guys have to realize., there is NO science n any scriptures., what you have is simple observations and commonsense put in together and write some songs in their respective languages..  those of  you who are interested in detail should read these  links.

    This one has all religious texts 
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/

    according to many websites, the hindu scriptures say the following:

    Shape of Earth is like an Oblate Spheroid. (Rig VedaXXX. IV. V)

    ‘Earth is flattened at the poles’ (Markandeya Purana 54.12)

     But i haven't been able to find the passages they are referring to.   Where is Rig VedaXXX. IV. V ?


    where did you get that stuff dr_sloth., I mean link..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #8 - January 31, 2012, 06:35 PM

    I am arriving at the conclusion that the Hindu claims are even more deluded, desperate, and dishonest than the muslims ones.
    According to the following website, http://agniveer.com/663/science-in-vedas/  Rig Veda 1.164.13 says:

     “Sun moves in its orbit which itself is moving. Earth and other bodies move around sun due to force of attraction, because sun is heavier than them."

    But what it actually says is: "Upon this five-spoked wheel revolving ever all living creatures rest and are dependent. Its axle, heavy-laden, is not heated: the nave from ancient time remains unbroken."

    All of the examples I have seen have been equally ludicrous.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #9 - January 31, 2012, 06:39 PM

    you guys have to realize., there is NO science n any scriptures., what you have is simple observations and commonsense put in together and write some songs in their respective languages..  those of  you who are interested in detail should read these  links.


    If there is no science in Quran then how is it possible that no one till now hasn't been able to refute the claims?? even about Quran's Flat earth.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #10 - January 31, 2012, 08:31 PM

    I am arriving at the conclusion that the Hindu claims are even more deluded, desperate, and dishonest than the muslims ones.
    According to the following website, http://agniveer.com/663/science-in-vedas/  Rig Veda 1.164.13 says:

     “Sun moves in its orbit which itself is moving. Earth and other bodies move around sun due to force of attraction, because sun is heavier than them."

    But what it actually says is: "Upon this five-spoked wheel revolving ever all living creatures rest and are dependent. Its axle, heavy-laden, is not heated: the nave from ancient time remains unbroken."

    All of the examples I have seen have been equally ludicrous.



    i don't trust links written by some one unless it refers to a original book where that link gets it dr_sloth.,  i did remember interacting with  that guy., It appears he is writing against some Muslim guy in tit for tat fashion.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #11 - January 31, 2012, 08:32 PM

    If there is no science in Quran then how is it possible that no one till now hasn't been able to refute the claims?? even about Quran's Flat earth.

    what happened  sturmgewehr?  you are going in to Quran instead of those hindu scriptural books..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #12 - January 31, 2012, 09:15 PM

    ^^

    Well since u mentioned NO scripture contains scientific knowledge and mentioned the Quran I thought I will bring the issue up.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #13 - February 01, 2012, 01:01 AM

    i started looking into this because somebody on the jinn and tonic show said that a strength of hinduism, over islam, is that their books can be translated without the problems that the muslims moan about.

    For example, when the hindu texts say that the earth is an 'oblate spheroid', that is exactly what it says in any language.
    I thought that this was impressive knowledge, and I wanted to verify it. It's not that this would convince me that it was from god. However, it would prove that the muslim quranic science claims are even less impressive, since a book written thousands of years earlier, is much more scientific.

    But the hindus are coming up with the exact some excuses as the muslims:

    "words in sanskrit have more than one meaning."
    "translation of Vedas in English is almost an impossibility."
    "Nowhere, Vedas are authentically translated to English."


    They even have their Keith Moore equivalents:
    " There is no doubt that Puranas and Vedas are word of God." -Scott Sandford, Space Scientist, NASA

    “How could Hindus (Aryas) have possibly known all this 6,000 years ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment which did not exist at that time? Such concepts were found only recently. “ -Dr. Kevin Hurley of the University of California at Berkeley

    “Finally we came to conclusion that Universe is shaped like a egg but this information was already present in Hindu Literature.” (Alan Kogut, NASA)



    What I am finding really confusing is the utter lack of even a remote similarity between different translations of the same verse, plus references to verses which don't appear to exist. I have absolutely no idea what these books actually say.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #14 - February 01, 2012, 01:06 AM

    If there is no science in Quran then how is it possible that no one till now hasn't been able to refute the claims?? even about Quran's Flat earth.


    i dont really know what you mean.  There is a difference between refuting somebody, and convincing them that they have been refuted.
    I think we have pretty easily refuted all the quranic science claims. The fact that muslims don't agree isn't really relevant.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #15 - February 01, 2012, 01:44 AM

     There is a difference between refuting somebody, and convincing them that they have been refuted.

    That is put together nicely for those Islamic intellectuals who thinks that there is some science in Qiuran dr_sloth ..
    Quote
    i started looking into this because somebody on the jinn and tonic show said that a strength of hinduism, over islam, is that their books can be translated without the problems that the muslims moan about.

    For example, when the hindu texts say that the earth is an 'oblate spheroid', that is exactly what it says in any language.
    I thought that this was impressive knowledge, and I wanted to verify it. It's not that this would convince me that it was from god. However, it would prove that the muslim quranic science claims are even less impressive, since a book written thousands of years earlier, is much more scientific.

    But the hindus are coming up with the exact some excuses as the muslims:

    "words in sanskrit have more than one meaning."
    "translation of Vedas in English is almost an impossibility."
    "Nowhere, Vedas are authentically translated to English."


    They even have their Keith Moore equivalents:
    " There is no doubt that Puranas and Vedas are word of God." -Scott Sandford, Space Scientist, NASA

    “How could Hindus (Aryas) have possibly known all this 6,000 years ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment which did not exist at that time? Such concepts were found only recently. “ -Dr. Kevin Hurley of the University of California at Berkeley

    “Finally we came to conclusion that Universe is shaped like a egg but this information was already present in Hindu Literature.” (Alan Kogut, NASA)


    What I am finding really confusing is the utter lack of even a remote similarity between different translations of the same verse, plus references to verses which don't appear to exist. I have absolutely no idea what these books actually say.

    Now I understand you ., I would again say., whatever is there in those books is nothing more than common sense ..  well let us dig bit deeper

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #16 - February 01, 2012, 06:58 PM

    i dont really know what you mean.  There is a difference between refuting somebody, and convincing them that they have been refuted.
    I think we have pretty easily refuted all the quranic science claims. The fact that muslims don't agree isn't really relevant.


    Like which one Huh??

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #17 - February 01, 2012, 07:15 PM

    Every single one of them

    are you still under the impression that there might be some impressive science in the quran?
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #18 - February 01, 2012, 07:35 PM

    Yes I am especially with the Expanding Universe, shape of Earth and embryology.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #19 - February 01, 2012, 07:51 PM

    expanding universe:  it doesn't say 'universe'. it says 'heavens'. Of which the quran claims there are seven.
    Neither does it say 'expanding'. It says big.   Every single historic translation, or tafsir simply says big. It is only one or two modern translations (written after the scientists worked it out) that say 'expanding'.

    shape of the earth:  Pretty much everything is pointing towards a flat earth, with the sun orbiting around it.   Today, Muslms say that it says the earth is egg shaped.  But that would make it wrong. the earth is not egg shaped. Anyway, the ancient Greeks had some pretty good ideas about the shape of the earth, so even if the quran was accurate, it is still unimpressive.

    embryology: Ignore Keith Moore, and just read the verse. There is nothing there.  blood clot. lump. skeleton. baby. What specific part of it do you think is impressive knowledge?  it is all either ambiguous, obvious, or wrong.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #20 - February 01, 2012, 08:37 PM

    @ dr_sloth:

    It does say expanding, and if u see the classical translations it clearly says expanding, I have even asked many people about this.

    well the earth is kind of EGG shaped, take the egg leave it on the table u will see, especially the Ostrich Egg they say the Quran is referring to.
    Quran doesn't say the Sun is orbiting around the earth that is false, it says the Sun has its own orbit and it does have its orbit around the galaxy.

    About Embryology they also say the word Thumma or whatever that word was means concurrently.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #21 - February 01, 2012, 09:57 PM

    expanding universe:  can you show me a tafsir or early translation that says 'expanding'?

    shape of earth.  its definately not egg shaped.  muslims are trying to say that the earth isnt quite spherical, it is flattened a bit, and therefore 'egg shaped' is much more accurate. But it isn't. Eggs are flatted in the opposite direction. they are flatted on the equator, whereas the earth is flattened on the poles. This is not an insignificant difference. They are opposite shapes. Shapes have clear definitions, and are not affected by orientation.  'Perfectly spherical' despite being wrong, is still much more accurate than 'egg shaped'.  

     btw, ostrich eggs are no different shape to a chicken egg. they are just larger. Muslims focus on some significant distinct property of the ostrich egg, but there is none. Apart from, as theRationalizer pointed out, that ostriches lay their eggs FLAT in the ground.  Beside, I still not even believe it says 'egg shaped'.

    Obit of sun: "Quran doesn't say the Sun is orbiting around the earth that is false, it says the Sun has its own orbit "
    It doesnt not literaly say the sun orbits the earth, but it is the obvious implication of what it says.    Everyone back then (wrongly) knew that the sun has it's own orbit. They thought it has it's own orbit around the earth. It always talks about the orbit of the sun in the same breath as the orbit of the moon, and with the night and the day. This makes perfect sense if it is referring to the perceived orbit of the sun around the earth, and makes no sense if it is talking about the orbit of the sun around the galaxy.  You are being extremely generous to the quran by assuming it is talking about a galactic orbit rather than one around the earth.



    embryology:  ok. so maybe thumma means concurrent.  People have been performing disections for many thousands of years.  Nobody has ever observed a skeleton fetus, or miscarriage. So it is surely obvious to any doctor, scientist, or even butcher, that bones don't form first, and then are clothed with flesh.  I dont understand why this would impress you. Even a complete moron could guess it. There are only three options. bones first, flesh first, or both at same time.  Again, I am not even convinced that it means 'concurrent.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #22 - February 01, 2012, 10:45 PM

    On expanding universe, I'll c&p a great post by harakaat which I saved:

    Quote
    Let's look at the Arabic verse in question.

    وَالسَّمَاء بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

    Now, the key word in question is موسعون (moosi3oon). That is the ism al-faa3il (the "doer") of "أوسع" "awsa3a". Now "awsa3a" is the "af3ala" verb of the root. "af3ala" verbs in Arabic morphology refer to *making* the object perform the verb (Check Paradigm إفعال here: http://www.learnarabiconline.com/paradigm-connotations.shtml).

    So "awsa3a" means "ja3ala waasi3an", "to make sth. waasi3". Without doing all this morphology stuff you can get to that just by checking the entry for "awsa3a" in Al Mu3jam al Mu7ee6 (which you can do online if you wish). Now, what does "waasi3" mean? It simply means "wide" or "big". (Again, check Al Mu7ee6 if you don't believe me. Though this is a fairly commonly used adjective in Arabic. You might've already learned it.)

    So, what is the verse actually saying?

    "And the heaven, we have built it with hands (literal meaning) and we are those who make (it) big."

    The more intensive verb "wassa3a" (from fa33ala) would have meant to make something expand.

    "The تفعيل paradigm is also commonly used for expressing intensity. For example, the simple verb قطع means “to cut”, whereas the enhanced form قطّع means “to chop up”."

    That's from the site I gave you about Arabic morphology.

    Pickthall translated it best when he wrote:

    We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).

    Anyway, what's odd about the verse is that there's no object for "moosi3oon" (it should have said something like "laha lamoosi3oon". Of course, this could mean that the object has simply been omitted but the word still refers to "as-samaa2" (heaven) (something you can do in Arabic poetry). But it could also mean, as the Tafsir al Jalalayn exegesis states:

    { وإنا لموسعون } قادرون يقال: أد الرجل يئيد قوي، وأوسع الرجل: صار ذا سعة وقوة .

    that "moosi3oon" is an adjective that means "capable".

    What this shows is how flexible the Arabic language is and how a single word could mean many, many different things. But it also shows how ambiguous the Quran is (and coming from God, the last thing you want is ambiguity), and that the verse as understood by Islamic scholars before the whole "scientific miracles" craze in the 70s or so did not refer to "expansion". In Arabic, "moosi3" is a person who makes something big, and not a person who keeps on making something big (expanding it, MUWASSI3).

    tl;dr version: No miracle here. Don't take translations at face value and always consult an Arabic dictionary.


    On egg-shaped, see this post for why earth is not egg shaped (earth is an oblate spheroid), even if that was what the word meant.

    On embryology, I know captaindisguise has some good stuff in his upcoming vid(s), though he seems to be very busy, so it might be a while til he finishes it.

    p.s. check out theislammiracle youtube channel
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #23 - February 01, 2012, 10:51 PM

    At least we Buddhists are under no illusions that the Buddha taught on everything. Which hasn't stopped rationalization. Well, Hindus, Muslims, and Buddhists are welcome to strive at rationalization, but they strive at this task in vain.

    Interested in Buddhism? Check out http://www.accesstoinsight.org/!
    Consider Nalanda University, and never let it happen again.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #24 - February 01, 2012, 11:26 PM

    @ dr_sloth:

    Those are some valid points you made, I don't agree on some minor stuff but u made valid points on most of your post.

    @ nj7:

    Good stuff, I wanna knows which lexicon he used to translate that stuff and how old is the material he used, I think the older the dictionary you use to translate the Quran the more precise it will be.

  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #25 - March 03, 2012, 04:59 AM

    thats all transcendental. whatever you cannot percive in 3 dimensions has shapes in multiple dimensions.

    those mutiple limbs and the flying objects wahetevr else you see in hindu deity pictures all have transcendental nature.

    from the outside hinduism looks like either alien worship or cartoons.. however all you need to do is listen to the " Bhagwat geeta in english " on youtube.

    you ll get a jist of how indepth it is.

    Cosmic knowledge in hinduism is endless and outside grasp for many lifetimes for the present human brain. If you ignore it you ll be a happier person ..once u take one step towards knowing it the rabbit hole is endless...and maybe a one way ticket.

    on a lighter note its totally respect worthy. the only reason why hinduism stays a myth is because its an elephant amongst 5 blindmen one touches the tail and says its a rope , the other touches the ear and calls it a fan and so on.

    but the truth is ..the elephant is unknown for past 5000 years and will continue to be.

    All i know is what was told,
    All i think is what i know,
    All i am is what i think,
    All i know NOT is who i am.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #26 - March 04, 2012, 01:28 AM

    people please post more, I wanna know, stay true to the topic please
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #27 - March 04, 2012, 02:14 AM

     The root of knowledge springs from the supreme conciousness, like the origin of say ..a river.. and then it splits into tributories . the destination of the river's water is the ocean...but coz rigid land the rivers splits into various directions..

    some part of the river which fails to reach the ocean ...evaporates and rejoins the ocean eventually.

    so all souls were from a source which was alone and one. The process of flowing river is our lives...mutiple lives..untill we reach ocean . its simple yet its hard to explain.

    in the begining there was word , and the word was with god and the word was god ( bible) ..same thing..that supreme conciouness occured its first word.. and the first word was "I AM " ( AUM or OM ) is the sound for it in Sanskrit ....from there on...it hasnt stopped...I AM is the root sound from where the duality begins..

    There is much much more to it..the concept of third eye and the design on the human body ..Third eye is now reffered and identified as the PINEAL gland in our brains... that particular gland has a retina of its own.. the reason why u can actually see pictures with colors even with eyes closed is the presense of that retina within the pineal gland...

    so in hinduism the ultimate aim is to see your own soul with your 3rd eye ( pineal gland)..when the soul see's itself it see's the first thought which is "I AM". Once it reaches the root thought of all creation  ...it will either purge the duality and be part of superconciousness ... or will stay seperated and exist as I AM  and you are.


    on lower relms ..teh conciousness vibrates at diff frequences which make this world real.. The worship of demi gods is a different relm altogether... its very hard to conveyhow much there is to it... there are worlds and parellel universes and dimensions and much much more...but all this could make one get lost in the admiration of the creator ...its like a never ending journy ....Its like a vibe you carry all the time.. or maybe im just trippin Smiley)

    honestly it sums to 1 simple thing..inorder to feel that vibe of god or to buy a ticket for this train ..check all material on "Krishna Das"(some links on my first post- soul soup). on youtube.. an chill in peace..coz...in the end of all teh knowledge the truth is ..that god is..till the point of duality...once u reach him ull be alone..and you be god. thats why all the mystics  say ONE ONE OnE this is wht it means..they are alone and they are god and its ONE. ...lol

    All i know is what was told,
    All i think is what i know,
    All i am is what i think,
    All i know NOT is who i am.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #28 - March 04, 2012, 02:22 AM

    i  sure i dint make it even close to the topic..coz ive personally given away with methods and the rigidness of proofs..whats real is the feel...and i feel great ..thats all that matters.

    if we were created in likeness of god..then imagine god as..a string ..which has charges  at both ends.. +ive and negative and its always buzzing...

    such is the soul ..its a string with charge and a buzz ...so all of us relase those charges in the brain which convert into thoughts and manifest..into denser vibrations..


    coz of those charges we have a higher self and a lower self...if u think negative ure karma turns negative and u dropinto a viral of negativity and away from the light...

    the god conciousness also has a higher self ..which is xtreme good and.. lowest self I.e Ilbis. satan or whatever..

    To reach source keep ure buzz on AUM to reach closer to root.

    All i know is what was told,
    All i think is what i know,
    All i am is what i think,
    All i know NOT is who i am.
  • Re: Do the Hindus have a more convincing case for scientific foreknowledge
     Reply #29 - March 04, 2012, 02:50 AM

    .. "I AM " ( AUM or OM )  ...

    PINEAL gland .....

     parellel universes ...

    ...


      great.. good stuff ..good stuff.,  how are you doing silentroar?  .. welcome to CEMB.. suppose if I say this to you

    Quote
    ....True and there is no doubt that philosophical and religious point of view, the Hinduism is far ahead of other religions and religious thoughts, This is not because of  what was initially  written in it by  its sages and seers 10000 years back, but as I said before and say it again

    "that Hinduism is very Inclusive religion, It has no set of Rules and it accepts anything, any Philosophy that is reasonable for Human survival. These Darwinistic thoughts were built in to the system by the sages, seers and the proponents of Hinduism. And some of it, you see in Hindu religious Books." Infact the changes and modifications to original Hinduism are still continuing to this day

    ..It is an utter failure, when it comes to solving the day to day problems of THE COMMON MAN, THE HINDU and this you can see in what is left as "INDIA" also in the 2000year old history of "the INDIAN SUBCONTINENT". In this regard, The nomadic and Semitic religions and religious authorities who had the religions in their control have done far better than Hinduism...

    "As far as fishing data to make Hindus and Hinduism wrong" is concerned; there is no need to fish The failures of Hinduism. It can be seen with naked Eye, if you walk around India and if you read the history of Indian subcontinent. OFFCOURSE you can not see this sitting in United States of America. Instead, You only choose to read and come up with new theories in Hinduism as a religion for "Enlightened ones" Not For The Common Man "The Human The Hindu". ..

     long ago I said that to a very intelligent Hindu Mr. Vinaire 

    read him there., So question to you is, was that wrong what i said to him??


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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