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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islam and morality

 (Read 1658 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Islam and morality
     OP - February 24, 2012, 01:26 PM

    This might seem a daft comment, but what actually does Islam teach in terms of being honest, concerned about one's neighbour, not being angry and vengeful?

    Being a bear of little brain, is not religion meant to inculcate standards of honour decency trustworthiness and humanity?

    I cannot see the structures and systems in Islam that do this. 

    For example "love your neighbour as yourself"  Is that taught in mosques?

    This comment prompted this thread

    Quote
    He described corruption as a “massive,” “rampant” and “cancerous” problem in the country.



    http://www.stanforddaily.com/2012/01/31/eikenberry-assesses-u-s-role-in-afghanistan/

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #1 - February 24, 2012, 03:46 PM

    I suppose it depends on whether they're Muslim or not.  Non Muslims are to convert to Islam or be killed, unless they pay tax in which case they're allowed to live, but treated like dirt.  Of course this is only doable in countries where Shariah Law has been established.

    I suppose you're meant to respect other Muslims of course, but I don't know too much about this.  In any case, it's more about Jihad than love.
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #2 - February 24, 2012, 05:55 PM

    This might seem a daft comment, but what actually does Islam teach in terms of being honest, concerned about one's neighbour, not being angry and vengeful?

    Being a bear of little brain, is not religion meant to inculcate standards of honour decency trustworthiness and humanity?

    I cannot see the structures and systems in Islam that do this.  

    For example "love your neighbour as yourself"  Is that taught in mosques?

    This comment prompted this thread


    http://www.stanforddaily.com/2012/01/31/eikenberry-assesses-u-s-role-in-afghanistan/


    No, religions are usually tribalistic in their standards-psychology shows that human beings are hard-wired to be tribalistic, and religions are a product of the human condition. Obviously some areas of the world are more fiercely tribalistic due to dynamics, history, fragmentation, number of tribes etc-so that's why you'll see different levels of tribalism-but it's a common them in all. You have to remember that the Middle East is a particular example of this due to it's diversity and geography.

    The biblical morality of treating your neighbours right and not stealing was pretty much limited to other Isreaelites, everyone else can fuck themselves as far as the old testament was concerned-go read about how the Israelites would treat heathen tribes.

    The new testament is not much better (other than a few vague allusions, but it was written when the Israelites lived in a subservient position to the roman empire).

    It's funny, people often go around and talk about how the Quran is divided into Meccan and Medanian versus and how the Meccan versus are peaceful out of necessity. Well, the old testament and new testaments are similar, only in reverse order. Islam is no different to any other religion when it comes to tribalism and xenophobia (outer group prejudice), this exists in all humans, even today-the boundaries may change but the principle doesn't.

    The only difference is that the early Muslims were a constantly warring army, therefore the tribalism and xenophobia is very explicitly commanded as one would expect at a time of war.


    You have to remember that common morality is evolutionarily important, nearly every society in time has outlawed unjustified murder, theft, etc and recognised women and children as more worthy of mercy than men-these are natural human instincts-but these rules are usually limited to one's in group or tribe.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #3 - February 24, 2012, 06:21 PM

    Hang on, the final revealed perfect words and prophecy of the creator of the universe is tribal?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #4 - February 24, 2012, 06:35 PM

    Yes, with the tribe being 'Muslims' and the outsiders being 'non-Muslims'.

    Obviously it gets a lot more complicated after that.

    Remember the quranic verse 'the believers are soft with each other and strict on the unbelievers'-sounds very tribalistic to me.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #5 - February 24, 2012, 07:30 PM

    So West Side Story, where the boy and girl are from different tribes or gangs, is Unislamic?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #6 - February 24, 2012, 07:34 PM

    You don't actually see the world as so black-and-white, do you??

    Yes that is "Unislamic" and it is "Unchristian" and "Unhindu" and "Unjewish"... ALL humans are tribalistic. Our modern notions of rationality are things we have to LEARN, things which run counter to the tribalistic thinking that has been conditioned into ALL humans, muslims and everyone else. Lots of Hindus and Sikhs have killed their children for marrying "outsiders". Lots of Jewish people would not even consider marrying a non-Jew. So, try and get over this whole polarized way of thinking. There are very diverse types of Muslims and there are very diverse types of everyone else too.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #7 - February 24, 2012, 09:15 PM

    Like she said.

    Moi, read a bit into human psychology and anthropology and you'll see the same patters existing everywhere.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #8 - February 24, 2012, 09:34 PM

    You know what's funny.
     I have a lot of Caucasian (Chechen , Circassian, Georgian) friends. They prefer to marry within their ethnic groups. Yet at the same time they accuse other ethnic groups who do the same of being racist. dance

    Isn't it funny how cats can understand people without ever reading a single psychology book?
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #9 - February 24, 2012, 09:35 PM

    That's different. Tongue

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #10 - February 24, 2012, 09:40 PM

    You know what's funny.
     I have a lot of Caucasian (Chechen , Circassian, Georgian) friends. They prefer to marry within their ethnic groups. Yet at the same time they accuse other ethnic groups who do the same of being racist. dance


    Smaller ethnic groups tend to be tighter knit, especially in fear of persecution or extinction (through assimilation f.ex). From my experience, Circassians in Syria and Iraq tend to intermarry with the local populace-(I have a few half Circassian distant cousins f.ex)-but other Caucasian ethnic groups (especially the Christian ones) tend to remain tribalistic in this regard-anyway, like i said, it's very common to see small ethnic groups discouraging inter-marriage and holding on as much as possible to their cultural practices.

    Anyway, I don't think it's relevant to the thread.

    "Nobody who lived through the '50s thought the '60s could've existed. So there's always hope."-Tuli Kupferberg

    What apple stores are like.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QmZWv-eBI
  • Re: Islam and morality
     Reply #11 - February 25, 2012, 07:09 AM

    As Col Robert Ingersoll said, religion only teaches slave morals.
    There is no actual morality, because it's not based on reason and empathy (the foundations of actual morality).
    It's only based on doing what allah says.
    Morality is simply then a black and white decision:
    Allah said it's good or allah said it's bad.

    also "love your neighbour as yourself" is clap trap.

    The foundation of superstition is ignorance, the
    superstructure is faith and the dome is a vain hope. Superstition
    is the child of ignorance and the mother of misery.
    -Robert G. Ingersoll (1898)

     "Do time ninjas have this ability?" "Yeah. Only they stay silent and aren't douchebags."  -Ibl
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