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 Topic: Philosophers advocate killing newborns

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  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #30 - March 03, 2012, 12:51 PM
    Quote from: Raccoon Rapist on March 03, 2012, 12:44 PM
    Cheesy

    Looks like three times does the trick. Might be worth remembering for future reference. Grin
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #31 - March 03, 2012, 12:55 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 03, 2012, 12:51 PM
    Looks like three times does the trick. Might be worth remembering for future reference. Grin

    well dr. Osama .. you can laugh as much as you want with that Raccoon  but you have NOT read the paper carefully....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #32 - March 03, 2012, 12:57 PM
    Since you have absolutely no idea how carefully I have or have not read the paper, you are in no position to support such an assertion.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #33 - March 03, 2012, 01:03 PM




    <<<<<--------- look at my b00bz
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #34 - March 03, 2012, 01:09 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 03, 2012, 12:57 PM
    Since you have absolutely no idea how carefully I have or have not read the paper, you are in no position to support such an assertion.

    No I am not asserting  Osama  ., I am and was under the ASSUMPTION that you have not read the paper carefully..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #35 - March 03, 2012, 01:11 PM
    You made a definite assertion. Don't forget that English is my native language. I know what the words mean. Kthnxbai.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #36 - March 03, 2012, 01:17 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 03, 2012, 01:11 PM
    You made a definite assertion. Don't forget that English is my native language. I know what the words mean. Kthnxbai.

    Hmmm,   Then I am not certain You are reading the posts .. forget the paper..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #37 - March 03, 2012, 01:19 PM
    Quote
    Although the authors claim that the "moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus, that is, neither can be considered a 'person' in a morally relevant sense", they concede it is hard to exactly determine when a subject starts or ceases to be a "person".


    I like how they completely just beg the question and assume that abortion itself is morally a-okay. Same line of reasoning applies though, I guess. We just won't call it 'killing babies' and so therefore it's not. Fantastic reasoning.  Afro
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #38 - March 03, 2012, 01:23 PM
    Abortion is not "killing babies" if you are, in fact, killing a zygote. To call all abortion "killing babies" is just emotive rubbish. You can start applying the "killing babies" thing to late term abortions, but not to early ones.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #39 - March 03, 2012, 01:33 PM
    I didn't mean to imply that killing a zygote at any point during gestation equates to killing babies, but if we're talking about killing 'viable' fetuses then I'd say it at least borders on it. But then, you have your late term abortions, by which time the fetus is essentially every bit as human as it would be outside the womb. In that case, I see little difference between killing the infant in utero or outside of it.
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #40 - March 03, 2012, 01:36 PM
    I'd prefer killing old people, newborns are far cuter.
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #41 - March 03, 2012, 01:37 PM
    Zeb: I'd agree with that. However that still says nothing about whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.

    ETA: And newborns aren't cute. They're as ugly as a sack full of arseholes. Grin It takes them a few months to start getting cute.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #42 - March 03, 2012, 01:46 PM
    Not as ugly as old people.
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #43 - March 03, 2012, 08:27 PM
    Shhhh, You're hurting Oz's feelings Tongue
    19:46   <zizo>: hugs could pimp u into sex

    Quote from: yeezevee
    well I am neither ex-Muslim nor absolute 100% Non-Muslim.. I am fucking Zebra

  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #44 - March 03, 2012, 08:36 PM
    Old people have feelings  Huh?






     Tongue
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #45 - March 03, 2012, 08:54 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 03, 2012, 12:19 PM
    Odd that someone who is interested in philosophy would not be interested in one of the few practical applications of it. Surely this is one of the few areas where it could possibly do some real good.


    I have to agree with Oz. Otherwise philosophy just seems like mental masturbation IMO.
    An alternative to religion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nfXfTg92E

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNW-NXEudk
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #46 - March 03, 2012, 08:58 PM
    ^ +1

    And I'd add it's mental masturbation by the very privileged "zOMG Me and My First World Problems" types.
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #47 - March 03, 2012, 09:07 PM
    The reason I posted this is that I thought it actually raised some fairly deep issues, and that our resident philostophers (trained or otherwise) might actually be willing to tackle said issues. What does it mean to be a person? Under what circumstances is killing justified? Etc, etc.

    Yes, I did have a bit of fun with the thread title, but it is still accurate. It'd would be rather odd if people were ever so happy to jump all over Dawkins whenever he says one word out of place, or to throw around pure conjecture about the origin of the universe, but weren't interested in dealing with anything more relevant.
    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #48 - March 03, 2012, 09:53 PM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 03, 2012, 09:07 PM
    The reason I posted this is that I thought it actually raised some fairly deep issues,


    No it didn't. The authors are hacks. It's just a lazy utilitarian calculation that Singer did years before they did, and their attempts to deny newborns as persons with a right to life was a big fail-- they barely tried, and they did acknowledge newborns possessed some rights. If you're going to acknowledge the existence of rights, and at the same time say it's morally acceptable to kill infants, you better do a better job of making that case than these guys did.

    Basically their entire argument for why it's okay is because they don't consider babies to be people with the same rights as older people because they cannot form thoughts in the same manner. Fuckin seriously? So now it's okay to kill schizophrenics, retards, and anyone else who processes information differently than the norm? I know, I know, you can't necessarily draw that conclusion from what they wrote-- but that's my whole point-- they didn't delve into details or attempt to justify their argument effectively.

    I mean these people are supposed to be professional medical ethicists-- and yet they make an extremely ethically controversial claim spending little time backing it up with anything of substance or merit. Whatever university, foundation or medical institution is employing these people should fire them, as they're either lazy, stupid or both.

    Quote
    and that our resident philostophers (trained or otherwise) might actually be willing to tackle said issues.


    Unnecessary. I refuted the argument within the first few posts, nothing left to "tackle." The article is crap, the argument weak and full of holes, and the authors incompetent.
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #49 - March 04, 2012, 12:33 AM
    Well the "pro-life"rs must be loving this. I can hear them all the way from told-you-this-would-happen-land.
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #50 - March 04, 2012, 12:40 AM
    But anyway, I agree with Os. While it's probably an insane idea, it's a good opportunity to solidify some fundamental beliefs.

    So, question, how different is this to aborting a foetus because its quality of life will likely be severely compromised by a medical condition, assuming the pregnancy itself has no bearing on the mother's decision?
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #51 - March 04, 2012, 01:10 AM
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 03, 2012, 12:19 PM


    Odd that someone who is interested in philosophy would not be interested in one of the few practical applications of it. Surely this is one of the few areas where it could possibly do some real good.

    Quote from: zoomi on March 03, 2012, 11:53 AM

    Meh to each their own, I do consider them sometimes, though as I said I don't think they can be grounded in anything, so it's mostly just prudentials.

    personally I'd just rather block out society, crawl into a cave and play around with weird theories about mathematics and physics  Afro


    I suppose that's my answer to this. I do have my "hot-button" ethical issues though, I almost wrote my thesis on prison reform and restorative justice. I am also interested in the ethics of foreign aid.

    I think typically why I don't focus on it a lot is that I would rather be out actively participating in moral life, rather than just talking about it. So I can philosophize all I want about prison reform, but I'd much rather get out there and campaign for it.

  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #52 - March 04, 2012, 01:13 AM

    [/quote]
    Quote from: osmanthus on March 03, 2012, 01:37 PM


    ETA: And newborns aren't cute. They're as ugly as a sack full of arseholes. Grin It takes them a few months to start getting cute.


    Haha finally I agree with os on something.  Cheesy Why are all other baby animals so cute a few days after their born, but babies are so ugly??
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #53 - March 04, 2012, 04:11 AM
    Quote from: allat on March 03, 2012, 08:58 PM
    ^ +1

    And I'd add it's mental masturbation by the very privileged "zOMG Me and My First World Problems" types.


    I think all self-improvement is masturbation really.
    At evening, casual flocks of pigeons make
    Ambiguous undulations as they sink,
    Downward to darkness, on extended wings. - Stevens
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #54 - March 04, 2012, 04:20 AM
    Quote from: Prince Spinoza on March 04, 2012, 12:40 AM
    But anyway, I agree with Os. While it's probably an insane idea, it's a good opportunity to solidify some fundamental beliefs.

    So, question, how different is this to aborting a foetus because its quality of life will likely be severely compromised by a medical condition, assuming the pregnancy itself has no bearing on the mother's decision?


     015

    When the baby is born the mother's right to control her own body isn't an issue, and there's no debate about the baby being a person, except from douchebags who refuse to use words as they are defined.

    Quote from: zoomi on March 04, 2012, 01:13 AM
    Why are all other baby animals so cute a few days after their born, but babies are so ugly??


    Marsupials aren't. They're even uglier than baby humans.
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #55 - March 04, 2012, 04:30 AM
    Quote from: Raccoon Rapist on March 04, 2012, 04:20 AM
    015

    When the baby is born the mother's right to control her own body isn't an issue, and there's no debate about the baby being a person, except from douchebags who refuse to use words as they are defined.

    Did someone say otherwise Huh? Huh? Huh?
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #56 - March 04, 2012, 04:32 AM
    You asked about the difference-- there it is. Weighing outcomes of both hypothetical scenarios is irrelevant from an ethical standpoint.
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #57 - March 04, 2012, 04:35 AM
    Eh wot.

    I'm saying the mother's thoughts of her own body doesn't factor into her decision. The decision to abort is purely because the foetus has a severe genetic disorder.
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #58 - March 04, 2012, 05:00 AM
    Bury ur face in my boobs and shut up.
    "In battle, the well-honed spork is more dangerous than the mightiest sword" -- Sun Tzu
  • Re: Philosophers advocate killing newborns
     Reply #59 - March 04, 2012, 05:29 AM
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