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Theme Changer

 Topic: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France

 (Read 20609 times)
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  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #60 - March 21, 2012, 06:20 PM

    To be honest, I'm sick of this shit. Even if the murderer turns out to be a white supremacist, Islam has a lot of blood on its hands, and terrorist Islamists have a lot of blood on their hands. Just because some idiots vilify all Muslims because of that doesn't mean that the previous sentence is not true. Let's not forget certain facts, here. Let's not forget who the real monsters are.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #61 - March 21, 2012, 06:20 PM

    3 cops hurt in shootout with under-siege suspect in Jewish school slayings says news

    Quote
    Updated at 12:06 p.m. ET: TOULOUSE, France -- A suspect wanted in connection with the killing three children and a rabbi at a Jewish school wounded three police officers in a shootout at a house in Toulouse, France, on Wednesday. He was identified as 24-year-old Mohammed Merah.  Interior Minister Claude Gueant said the man, who was under siege by hundreds of police officers in an ongoing standoff, claimed to be a member of al-Qaida and that he had shot dead the four out of "revenge for Palestinian children." He is also suspected by authorities of having killed three French soldiers of North African origin last week.

     
    French prosecutor Francois Molins later said the alleged gunman told police he had been to Afghanistan twice and had trained in the militant stronghold of Waziristan.  Molins also said Merah had planned to kill another soldier and two police officials imminently, and that his brother had been implicated in a network sending fighters to Iraq.  Police sources earlier told Reuters that another man had been arrested earlier Wednesday at a separate location in connection with the case.  Several hours after the initial raid, which took at about 3 a.m. local time Wednesday (10 p.m. ET Tuesday), the alleged gunman threw a pistol out the window in exchange for a "communication device." However, he was believed to have other weapons including an AK-47 assault rifle.

    The suspect said he would surrender in the "late evening" on Wednesday, although he had earlier promised to give himself up during the afternoon.

    "He claims to be a mujahedeen and to belong to al-Qaida," Gueant told journalists in Toulouse. "He wanted revenge for the Palestinian children and he also wanted to attack the French army because of its foreign intervention."...


    well read the rest at link..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #62 - March 21, 2012, 06:22 PM

    ^ Who still thinks it's a false-flag operation?

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #63 - March 21, 2012, 06:23 PM

    what's highly likely about it? do you know how journalism works? journalists swallow press releases hook, line and sinker. this is especially true in national emergencies when trust of authority is at its highest and people really stop being critical.

    a press release from a right-wing, racist government that some muslim confessed he is behind this is not evidence at all.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #64 - March 21, 2012, 06:25 PM

    To be honest, I'm sick of this shit. Even if the murderer turns out to be a white supremacist, Islam has a lot of blood on its hands, and terrorist Islamists have a lot of blood on their hands. Just because some idiots vilify all Muslims because of that doesn't mean that the previous sentence is not true. Let's not forget certain facts, here. Let's not forget who the real monsters are.

    no, bullshit. no one is forgetting anything. but let's not forget that muslims (and ex-muslims) are oppressed by the policies of racist govts in the "war on terror" as much as they're oppressed by islam.

    just because you hate a religion doesn't mean you should stop being critical of people claiming it's to blame for all the shit that goes on, especially when that shit is generalized and blamed on all followers (and people who are assumed to be followers) of that religion.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #65 - March 21, 2012, 06:26 PM

    what's highly likely about it? do you know how journalism works? journalists swallow press releases hook, line and sinker. this is especially true in national emergencies when trust of authority is at its highest and people really stop being critical.

    a press release from a right-wing, racist government that some muslim confessed he is behind this is not evidence at all.


    Fine, tell me what you think. To you, what is the most plausible explanation for these events?

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #66 - March 21, 2012, 06:27 PM

    no, bullshit. no one is forgetting anything. but let's not forget that muslims  (and ex-muslims) are oppressed by the policies of racist govts in the "war on terror" as much as they're oppressed by islam.


    -__- There's no comparison!

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #67 - March 21, 2012, 06:28 PM

    are you kidding me? Roll Eyes
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #68 - March 21, 2012, 06:29 PM

    Fine, tell me what you think. To you, what is the most plausible explanation for these events?

    i'm not making any propositions. i'm saying there's no evidence.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #69 - March 21, 2012, 06:29 PM

    French Murderer “Prefers to Kill and Stay Alive” as Armed Standoff Continues (LIVE UPDATES) That is from Jewish News Paper


    Quote
    1:50pm: According to the French newspaper Le Point, Mohammed Merah, who is still engaged in a standoff with French police, told the officers on Wednesday that he is not suicidal and he “prefers to kill and stay alive”.

    1:30pm: French prosecutor Francois Molins says Merah plans to give himself up late on Wednesday while police say they are ready to “lead an assault” on the apartment Merah is hiding in, according to the French publication Le Point.

    12:00pm: French prosecutor Francois Molins said Mohammed Merah had planned to kill two police officers in Toulouse on Wednesday and that Merah claimed to “have brought France to its knees.”

    Molins also said Merah, who has confessed to 7 murders in Southern France recently, including 3 children at a Jewish school on Monday, had planned to turn himself in during the afternoon but that was pushed back until the evening.

    CBS News is reporting that if Merah does not surrender soon, French police are “preparing to storm” the apartment he is hiding in.

    11:10am: French President Nicolas Sarkozy speaks at a memorial service for the three French soldiers shot dead by Mohammed Merah.

    “They were killed because they were French soldiers, because they were the French army and this is the French republic that was affected,” he said.

    Merah claims to be a member of Al Qaeda and has told police he killed the three french soldiers in response to France’s military presence in Afghanistan.

    10:50am: Following a meeting with French President Nicolas Sarokzy, local representative of the Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France, Nicole Yardeni said Mohammed Merah was planning to kill again on Wednesday morning. “He had a plan to kill again”, she said.  “It was intended for him to kill this morning.”

    Sarkozy divulged this information to religious leaders during a meeting, according to the French newspaper Le Point.

    10:30am: French President Nicolas Sarkozy left a police barracks near the scene of Wednesday’s standoff but did not make any comments.

    10:15am: French Interior Minister Claude Gueant denies reports from French Media that Merah has been arrested.

    “I deny, that’s wrong,” he told AFP.  “The negotiations continue.”

    10:00am: Mohammed Merah, who confessed to killing all seven individuals in Southern France recently, including 4 people in a brutal attack at a Jewish school on Monday, has been arrested after an armed standoff with French police, reports BFM TV in France.



    Quote
    The 24-year-old Merah thought to be a French national of North African origin.   Muhammad  Merah, who was in prison two separate times – in 2007 and 2009 – said Monday’s murders were to “avenge Palestinian children” and the three French soldiers who were killed just days before were because of France’s military presence in Afghanistan. Merah, who is a Frenchman of Algerian descent was tracked using his brother’s e-mail address, which was involved in the killing of Imad Ibn-Ziatena, a French soldier.  Ziatena was selling his motorbike and was contacted via e-mail by Merah’s brother, who was apprehended by French police, eventually leading to Merah’s location in Toulouse.

    Numerous reports say that Merah exchanged a pistol – the same caliber used in Monday’s killings – in return for a telephone device, after police officers were wounded while attempting to enter his apartment.


    bastards why do they go to Pakistan??  Do those things around Arabian desert..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #70 - March 21, 2012, 06:30 PM

    i'm not making any propositions. i'm saying there's no evidence.



    How are you doing Abood.. is that avatar you are using is from that Buddhu?? Buddha??   some one who closes his ears and eyes ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #71 - March 21, 2012, 06:33 PM

     Cheesy

     Kiss
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #72 - March 21, 2012, 06:34 PM

    are you kidding me? Roll Eyes


    Says the guy who comes from a ridiculously Westernized Muslim country. Visit Algeria someday. Or Sudan. Or Somalia.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #73 - March 21, 2012, 06:41 PM

    what does this have to do with me? Roll Eyes

    do you think the war on iraq and afghanistan have nothing to do with racism? do you think the fact that tens of thousands of innocent arabs and muslims are killed without even considering the fact that they're human beings has nothing to do with racism? do you think abu ghuraib and guantanamo have nothing to do with racism? those things are made possible because of the narrative that muslims are terrorists.

    and don't tell me my country is westernized when islamists have had a stronghold in parliament for decades and now the country is on the verge of turning into a theocracy. give me a fucking break, you live in one of the most westernized muslim countries in the world.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #74 - March 21, 2012, 06:41 PM

    France shootings siege: Live Report Jakarta Globe


    Quote
    1647 GMT: Police have found the scooter allegedly used by the gunman and are looking for a car that may contain weapons, the French prosecutor says. "A T-Max scooter has been found with the two dark and white helmets used at the different crime scenes, while a Clio is actively sought and everything leads us to believe that it contains a certain number of weapons and ammunition."


    1642 GMT: Merah said he was driven by the fate of the Palestinians, France's involvement in Afghanistan and the banning of the veil in France, Molins says. A France 24 journalist who received a call during the night from a man claiming to be the killer earlier cited the same motives.

    1631 GMT: The French prosecutor continues: "Mohamed Merah explained that he belonged to Al-Qaeda. He explained he had been trained by Al-Qaeda in the Pakistani-Afghanistan region in Waziristan. He explained his trips abroad, including his time in Afghanistan.

    "He said he does not have a suicidal spirit, he did not have a martyr's soul, he preferred to kill and remain alive."

    1622 GMT: Francois Molins is France's top anti-terror magistrate, who is overseeing the probe into the killing of three soldiers, three Jewish children and a teacher. Refering to the suspect, Molins told reporters: "He says he always acted alone." "He has expressed no regret" except "not having been able to have more victims".

    1609 GMT: The French prosecutor has also given details of the incident earlier in which two officers were wounded. He says police attempted several assaults on the holed-up suspect but were fired on each time. Two officers were wounded by Mohamed Merah, one in the knee and one when a bullet hit his flak jacket, Molins says, adding that the alleged serial killer had identified two police he wanted to kill.

    1339 GMT: New evidence - French police say explosives have been found in the car of the suspect's brother. Police said earlier they had detained the suspect's mother and brother, along with the brother's girlfriend.


    1015 GMT: The French interior minister says the gunman has stopped negotiating with police. "He is no longer talking, the conversations have stopped," Gueant tells journalists in Toulouse. Earlier police said they were in talks with Mohammed Merah who had pledged to surrender later.

    0939 GMT: France's top Muslim leader speaks out against the shootings, saying the killer acted against Islam. "These acts are in total contradiction with the foundations of this religion," says the head of the French Muslim Council, Mohammed Moussaoui. "France's Muslims are offended by this claim of belonging to this religion."

    1035 GMT: Palestinian diplomatic missions in France condemn the "hateful" Jewish school attack "in the strongest possible terms". "All racist crimes are attacks on humanity in general and on the republic in particular," they said in a statement, issued in the name of the Palestine Liberation Organisation, the Palestinian Authority, and Palestine's missions to France and UNESCO.

    .. well there is much more at that Jakarta Globe   http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/afp/france-shootings-siege-live-report/506468..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #75 - March 21, 2012, 06:45 PM

    what does this have to do with me? Roll Eyes

    do you think the war on iraq and afghanistan have nothing to do with racism? do you think the fact that tens of thousands of innocent arabs and muslims are killed without even considering the fact that they're human beings has nothing to do with racism? do you think abu ghuraib and guantanamo have nothing to do with racism? those things are made possible because of the narrative that muslims are terrorists.

    and don't tell me my country is westernized when islamists have had a stronghold in parliament for decades and now the country is on the verge of turning into a theocracy. give me a fucking break, you live in one of the most westernized muslim countries in the world.

    Which country are you talking about Abood?? Saudi Arabia??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #76 - March 21, 2012, 06:48 PM

    what does this have to do with me? Roll Eyes

    do you think the war on iraq and afghanistan have nothing to do with racism? do you think the fact that tens of thousands of innocent arabs and muslims are killed without even considering the fact that they're human beings has nothing to do with racism? do you think abu ghuraib and guantanamo have nothing to do with racism? those things are made possible because of the narrative that muslims are terrorists.

    and don't tell me my country is westernized when islamists have had a stronghold in parliament for decades and now the country is on the verge of turning into a theocracy. give me a fucking break, you live in one of the most westernized muslim countries in the world.


    A country with Islamists in its parliament and which NOW is on "the verge" of turning into a theocracy doesn't make it a theocracy.

    I may live in a Westernized country, but my family, my culture, my relatives, my summers, are all from a country where you're told you don't belong if you don't think all Jews should be killed.

    And I think your description of the War on Terror is vastly oversimplified and very misleading.

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #77 - March 21, 2012, 06:51 PM

    To me it's very very unlikely to be an attack by an organized Jihadi organization. It's much more likely to be some kind of Breivik-like freak. Maybe Muslim, but that's also unlikely.

    It turned out I was completely wrong grin12.
    I shall be more careful in the future.
    a press release from a right-wing, racist government that some muslim confessed he is behind this is not evidence at all.

    Yeah, right. And it certainly doesn't matter that some Muslim were part of this government, they just hate all Muslims and would certainly send some agent on a hidden conspiracy to incited hatred against Muslim because they are just EVIL.
    That's not paranoia, that's just acknowledging that everyone hates you and will do everything to hurt you while pretending the opposite, right ?
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #78 - March 21, 2012, 06:52 PM

    "1829: According to France's Le Figaro, Mohammed Mehra used a phone box to call the news channel France 24. In a 10 minute conversation with a journalist at the TV station, he claimed responsibility for the acts, the Paris prosecutor Francois Molins has said. The journalist said the man she spoke to was "very eloquent" and gave specific details about the killings."
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #79 - March 21, 2012, 07:01 PM

    Information is always iffy as it comes out immediately and a healthy dose of skepticism is usually good, as long as one doesn't veer off into Mos Def like solipsism.

    So once again I'm left with the classic Irish man's dilemma, do I eat the potato or do I let it ferment so I can drink it later?
    My political philosophy below
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwGat4i8pJI&feature=g-vrec
    Just kidding, here are some true heros
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBTgvK6LQqA
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #80 - March 21, 2012, 07:05 PM

    ^ +1000

    قل للمليحة في الخمار الأسود
    مـاذا فـعــلت بــناسـك مـتـعـبد

    قـد كـان شـمّر لــلـصلاة ثـيابه
    حتى خـطرت له بباب المسجد

    ردي عليـه صـلاتـه وصيـامــه
    لا تـقــتـلــيه بـحـق ديــن محمد
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #81 - March 21, 2012, 07:07 PM

    Information is always iffy as it comes out immediately and a healthy dose of skepticism is usually good, as long as one doesn't veer off into Mos Def like solipsism.


    ^ This.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #82 - March 21, 2012, 07:14 PM

    I wonder how much coverage this is going to get compared with the civilian shootings in Afghanistan
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #83 - March 21, 2012, 07:16 PM

    Mos Def style solipsism needs love too.

     

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #84 - March 21, 2012, 07:23 PM

    I wonder how much coverage this is going to get compared with the civilian shootings in Afghanistan


    I think it will depend what country you live in.  I would expect the European press to give more coverage to the French shooting, and the US media to give more coverage to the shootings carried out by a US soldier. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #85 - March 21, 2012, 07:24 PM

    the immediate information was that it was neo nazis.

    we now have better information. unless you think that the entire thing is one big conspiracy, and that 'Jews did 911', then it seems pretty obvious what the deal is now
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #86 - March 21, 2012, 07:37 PM

    I'm no conspiracy theorist, I just think its naive to rush to judgement on the basis of press reports. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #87 - March 21, 2012, 07:44 PM

    Just reading Umberto Eco Prague Cemetery.  Very disturbing story of how to get to hate.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #88 - March 21, 2012, 07:46 PM

    the immediate information was that it was neo nazis.


    Was it? As far as I can recall there was only speculation, not information.

    Its not wrong to speculate, as long as its done reasonably, and with an open mind. I'd say it is wrong to speculate definitively and in doing so excluding other reasonable possibilities.

    As long as you know any speculation should be contingent upon knowledge and open to change.

    The whole Breivik case stands as a lesson to everyone not to jump to conclusions before knowing the facts. It wasn't until very late in the evening after that atrocity until it became clear that contrary to alot of wrong assumptions, the Norway attacks were not  carried out by Islamists.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Four killed after shooting at Jewish school in France
     Reply #89 - March 21, 2012, 07:53 PM

    I wonder how much coverage this is going to get compared with the civilian shootings in Afghanistan

    Much more, here in France. But that's in no way surprising. Local news always get more coverage. There are much stronger examples of that.
    I'm no conspiracy theorist, I just think its naive to rush to judgement on the basis of press reports.

    It depends on what. If a press reports tell me some policemen are surrounding some place where a suspect is hiding, and that there are shooting involved, I tend to believe them. And based on the information I have, it seems extremely likely (but not sure, yes) that he is at least involved in the shooting.
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